The parable of the talents

dberrie2020

Well-known member
dberrie said---And judgement follows according to those actions:

John 5:28-29---King James Version

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

My concerns have nothing to do with being LDS, or what you or anyone else does, or does not do. I'm not sure where you get that from.

Again--my concern is faith alone theology which the critics push here--which states one obtains eternal life--excluding all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.

Please stick to that point when addressing my concerns.

That’s just not true, and you continue to push that lie. There is no integrity in what you post.

What, specifically--are you claiming isn't true about my above post?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
By using the Lord's remedy and accepting the free grace you are doing what He says. Good works are no long efforts to get into heaven which are fruitless and self righteous works but rather are works from the heart where the heart represents the center of your desires and are of your nature. By following your desires which are in-line with God's will you are no longer attempting to work your way to heaven. And your works are acceptable to God - just as God chose Abel's gift over Cain's which involved great labor. Jesus has already done the work for us and we merely have to accept Jesus and allow Him to change your heart. You can do this by simply asking Him to come in.

Does that mean the Biblical writers were just plain wrong?

Revelation 22:14--King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

So--were their hearts changed before they obeyed the commandments--or after they obeyed? Either way--the obedience is what was required to have a right to the tree of life. Does God extend His grace unto life--to them which obey Him?

How does one fit that into faith alone theology?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
By using the Lord's remedy and accepting the free grace you are doing what He says. Good works are no long efforts to get into heaven which are fruitless...

You might want to relay that to the Biblical writers:

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

and self righteous works but rather are works from the heart where the heart represents the center of your desires and are of your nature.

So--are these "self righteous works"?

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

By following your desires which are in-line with God's will you are no longer attempting to work your way to heaven. And your works are acceptable to God - just as God chose Abel's gift over Cain's which involved great labor. Jesus has already done the work for us and we merely have to accept Jesus and allow Him to change your heart. You can do this by simply asking Him to come in.

Luke 6:46---King James Version
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

John 14:21-24--King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Ok. Please substantiate your concern by showing me anywhere in the scriptures all acts of obedience MUST be unto eternal life to fit your paradigm

I've never made any such claim. Please stick with my concern, IE--the faith alone exclude all works in obtaining eternal life. The scriptures connect acts of obedience to God's grace unto life, IE--

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Care to address that concern?

If we ultimately agreed we are saved by grace and not by works, and a living faith requires obedience,

As the faith alone adherents have already testified to you--there are no works required nor necessary in obtaining eternal life.

So--if acts of obedience to Jesus Christ are required for "living faith"--then living faith isn't necessary to obtain eternal life--in faith alone theology.

why is this even an issue? What's the difference in obedience out love for God, or obedience unto eternal life?

None. But the reasons why one serves God has nothing to do with the fact faith alone theology excludes all works in obtaining eternal life. That has to be addressed as something FOLLOWING eternal life.

Please stick with that point, when addressing my concerns.

This is a requirement you've added. It's a rediculous concern.

Whatever you deem it to be--it was a legitimate concern for the Biblical writers:

John 3:16-21---King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Why bold "loving darkness rather than light", and "deeds were evil"? What point are you trying to convey.

That those whose deeds are evil are not associated with those who come to the light. And those who "doeth truth" are the ones who come to the light.

That connects deeds with the Light. I connect the Light with eternal life.

When we accept Jesus, and receive the Holy Ghost we have come into the light.

That connects obedience with coming to the light:

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
 

MMDAN

Active member
Teaching acts of obedience to Jesus Christ isn't necessary for eternal life to occur in one--is a false religion:
So how many acts of obedience must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save you? Salvation by works is a false religion. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
More eisegesis on your part that culminates in works salvation. 1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11, we read - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is connected to children of the devil.

Are you claiming this isn't the Father's will--or belief in Christ?:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in

There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

and doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Those who "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) his commandments (1 John 2:3) demonstrate that they already know him/are already saved. This is God's will for those who are already saved. Those who merely say they know him, yet do not "keep" (guard, observe, watch over) his commandments are liars and the truth is not in them. This is descriptive of unbelievers/those who are not saved.

Again--when you reference "faith" there--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?
Works "follow" saving faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-10) and are the fruit of salvation, but never the root of it.

That only connects works with the kingdom of God.
Works are the demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but are not the basis or means by which we are saved.

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Works-salvationists typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. See my explanation of 1 John 2:3. "Do His commandments" does not earn us eternal life, but it is evidence that we have been granted eternal life through faith and are born of God. Other translations read, "Blessed are those who wash their robes," which symbolizes those who have been forgiven of their sins through the blood of the Lamb (Romans 3:24-26). *Also see Revelation 7:14.

That's the reason God grants His salvational grace to them which are willing to repent and be baptized:
I see that you have added yet "another" work to salvation by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) In Romans 5:1, we read - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (plus what? plus nothing) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. *Access by faith into grace. Not access by keeping his commandments into grace or access by baptism into grace..

Acts 2:38--King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

As to your "come to know Him"---

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in
We don't come to know him by keeping his commandments, but instead, we know that we have come to know him, (already know him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we keep his commandments.
 

Cisco Qid

Active member
You might want to relay that to the Biblical writers:

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.



So--are these "self righteous works"?

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?



Luke 6:46---King James Version
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

John 14:21-24--King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Mat 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, 6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. 7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
 

Cisco Qid

Active member
You might want to relay that to the Biblical writers:

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Jesus stated when He returns will He find any faith? - the idea being that anyone with faith has endured.
So--are these "self righteous works"?

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
This is followed by Romans 16:17

But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
Luke 6:46---King James Version
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

John 14:21-24--King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
What do you understand are the commandments? Jesus gave one command, "A new commandment I give to you that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another." Paul stated in Romans 13:Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love is impossible to for-fill with human effort. Did you ever command a son or daughter to love you? The fact is that without God's love, you cannot complete this command. Without God writing His laws in your heart, your works are worthless.
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
So how many acts of obedience must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save you?

Jesus Christ Redeemed all men from the Fall, and provided eternal life--as an opportunity--to all men--as a free gift. Unconditional. Christ alone. No faith, obedience, endurance, belief, etc--necessary:

Romans 5:18--King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

"came upon"--past tense.

Now--we answer for our own choices---and that isn't unconditional:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So--how could faith alone theology be true--and that testimony also be true? God's salvational grace for our obedience to Jesus Christ?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

So--are these the ones who look to the Savior?

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

and doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

That only connects acts of obedience to the will of God.

Those who "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) his commandments (1 John 2:3) demonstrate that they already know him/are already saved.

That's not quite what the scripture states:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That has knowing God--- conditional to keeping His commandments.

Knowing God is eternal life.

This is God's will for those who are already saved. Those who merely say they know him, yet do not "keep" (guard, observe, watch over) his commandments are liars and the truth is not in them.

And liars cannot inherit the kingdom of God--right? That only connects works and being saved.

Works "follow" saving faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-10) and are the fruit of salvation, but never the root of it.

Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The fact is--if fruits determine whether one is "hewn down, and cast into the fire"--then the fruit is more than a casual observer. That connects fruit with His kingdom.

Works are the demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but are not the basis or means by which we are saved.

The means of salvation is God's grace--which go to them which obey Him:

1 Peter 1:13-17---King James Version
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Works-salvationists typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture.

No such terms found in the Biblical text.

"Works-salvationists" is a term applied to anyone who posts scriptures connecting God's grace with man's obedience:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


So--did a "works-salvationists" write that--or is that just a term for those who print those Biblical scriptures?

See my explanation of 1 John 2:3. "Do His commandments" does not earn us eternal life,

I agree. God grants the right to the tree of life, to them who "do his commandments"---through His grace.

but it is evidence that we have been granted eternal life through faith and are born of God. Other translations read, "Blessed are those who wash their robes," which symbolizes those who have been forgiven of their sins through the blood of the Lamb (Romans 3:24-26). *Also see Revelation 7:14.

But that still connects our walk with God's grace:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

"if" is a condition conjunction.

I see that you have added yet "another" work to salvation by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) In Romans 5:1, we read - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (plus what? plus nothing)

So--"faith" to you is a faith without works?

James 2:18-26---King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

And that has been my point all along--what the scriptures term a faith which is dead--the faith alone adherents call a saving faith.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first.

Where I come from--"and" is a conjunction connecting two or more things--not one, as you suggest:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

But in conjunction with obedience:

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins.

That only connects working righteousness with belief in God.

Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

Was this the reason why?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism)

Did you exclude water baptism--because you know faith alone theology would be compromised if you allowed it to go unedited?

Well--that's your choice--but the Biblical writers didn't exclude it:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So--how is that any different than other testimonies connecting repentance and water baptism with God's grace?

Acts 22:16---King James Version
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Was it not the very beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Mark 1:1-5---King James Version
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Mat 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, 6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. 7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

That connects the servant being healed to the centurion's faith. How does that annul any of the posted scriptures?

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Romans 6:16---King James Version

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Luke 6:46---King James Version
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

John 14:21-24--King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

You said---Cisco Qid said:
"By using the Lord's remedy and accepting the free grace you are doing what He says. Good works are no long efforts to get into heaven which are fruitless..."

Again--how do you comport that to the witness of the scriptures?

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Jesus stated when He returns will He find any faith? - the idea being that anyone with faith has endured.

So--when you reference "faith"--is that a reference to a faith with works--or to a faith without works?

This is followed by Romans 16:17

But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

That only connects obedience to becoming slaves to righteousness.

What do you understand are the commandments? Jesus gave one command, "A new commandment I give to you that you love one another:

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


Loving God--neighbor--self.

Love is impossible to for-fill with human effort.

That in no way covers up or cancels out the testimony --" If ye love me, keep my commandments." That states loving God is connected to keeping the commandments.

So--is the love of God necessary for eternal life to occur in one?
 

Cisco Qid

Active member
That connects the servant being healed to the centurion's faith. How does that annul any of the posted scriptures?

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Romans 6:16---King James Version

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Luke 6:46---King James Version
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

John 14:21-24--King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

You said---Cisco Qid said:
"By using the Lord's remedy and accepting the free grace you are doing what He says. Good works are no long efforts to get into heaven which are fruitless..."

Again--how do you comport that to the witness of the scriptures?

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Why did Jesus marvel? Because of the centurion's great faith. To Jesus faith was the most important quality. So much so that many would come from the east and the west (which means the gentils) and sit at the table of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob. Because of what? Their faith. And the children of the kingdom (that is, the children of Abraham) would be cast out. Because of what? Their lack of faith. This scripture is in direct confrontation to your doctrine of works.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Why did Jesus marvel? Because of the centurion's great faith. To Jesus faith was the most important quality. So much so that many would come from the east and the west (which means the gentils) and sit at the table of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob. Because of what? Their faith. And the children of the kingdom (that is, the children of Abraham) would be cast out. Because of what? Their lack of faith. This scripture is in direct confrontation to your doctrine of works.

Only if one claims it's a faith without works.

So--you didn't answer my question:--do you feel the term "faith" is a reference to a faith with works--or a faith without works?

Cisco--the faith alone claim one inherits eternal life--to the exclusion of all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ.

IOW--what the Biblical text refers to as a faith which is dead--the faith alone claim is a saving faith.

James 2:19-26--King James Version
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

MMDAN

Active member
Jesus Christ Redeemed all men from the Fall, and provided eternal life--as an opportunity--to all men--as a free gift. Unconditional. Christ alone. No faith, obedience, endurance, belief, etc--necessary:

Romans 5:18--King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

"came upon"--past tense.

Now--we answer for our own choices---and that isn't unconditional:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So--how could faith alone theology be true--and that testimony also be true? God's salvational grace for our obedience to Jesus Christ?
You did not answer my question from post #45 and obviously everything that I explained to you in post #45 just went right over your head.
 

MMDAN

Active member
So--are these the ones who look to the Savior?

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
That is 'descriptive' of those who are accepted by God. As I already explained in a previous post, in regards to Acts 10:35, working righteousness is the result of an already established faith. We are not saved by works of righteousness (Titus 3:5), but works of righteousness in connection with salvation are the fruit of, not the means of salvation. You put the cart before the horse. This verse gives a description of a saved believer, not a prerequisite for salvation. Those who work righteousness do so as the result of already having been saved through faith.(Ephesians 2:8-10)

That only connects acts of obedience to the will of God.
Acts of obedience/works which "follow" saving faith in Christ is God's will for those who are already saved. 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, (already saved) warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. These acts of obedience are not prerequisites for salvation but "follow" salvation and are God's will for us after we have been saved.

John 6:40 is God's will for us to become saved - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Only genuine believers have done God's will unto salvation and will enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 7:21) Unbelievers (John 3:18) will not enter the kingdom of heaven no matter how much eternal obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23)

That's not quite what the scripture states:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That has knowing God--- conditional to keeping His commandments.
You missed it and that's exactly what the scripture states. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we 'have come' (past tense) to know Him, (already know him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments.


Knowing God is eternal life.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

And liars cannot inherit the kingdom of God--right? That only connects works and being saved.
Apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ, everyone would be seen in the eyes of God as liars. None of us are without sin (Romans 3:23) so it's not about works salvation. It's about standing before God clothed in your own filthy rags of righteousness as an unbeliever and all of your sins remain.

Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The fact is--if fruits determine whether one is "hewn down, and cast into the fire"--then the fruit is more than a casual observer. That connects fruit with His kingdom.
A good tree (Christian) produces good fruit, but a bad tree (lost unbeliever) produces bad fruit. That connects good works as the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. (Ephesians 2:8-10) In regards to Matthew 7:21, for the umpteenth time, see John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. So what is the dividing line for receiving eternal life? John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The means of salvation is God's grace--which go to them which obey Him:
Unbelievers do not obey Him and seeking salvation by works is not obeying Him.

1 Peter 1:13-17---King James Version
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Unlike the english word "hope," the New Testament word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things HOPED for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life. (Titus 3:7) Obedient children is 'descriptive' of those who are born of God. You still just don't get it and instead continue to write a blank check with the word "obey" then fill in whatever amount of works that your church says you must accomplish in order to be saved, then you call that obeying Him, but you are mistaken.
 

MMDAN

Active member
No such terms found in the Biblical text.

"Works-salvationists" is a term applied to anyone who posts scriptures connecting God's grace with man's obedience:
"Works-salvationists" is a term applied to those who trust in works for salvation and not in Christ alone, which obviously describes you. God's grace is connected with faith (Romans 5:1-2) and not works. (Romans 11:6)

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
I already thoroughly explained this verse to you in post #45, but you obviously prefer your Mormon eisegesis over the truth. "Do His commandments" does not earn us eternal life, but it is evidence that we have come to know Him and are born of God. (1 John 2:3) Multiple other translations read, "Blessed are those who wash their robes," which symbolizes those who have been forgiven of their sins through the blood of the Lamb. (Romans 3:24-26) *Also see Revelation 7:14.

So--did a "works-salvationists" write that--or is that just a term for those who print those Biblical scriptures?
Those who wrote the Bible are not works-salvationists, but people who are mixed up in false religions and cults are.

I agree. God grants the right to the tree of life, to them who "do his commandments"---through His grace.
More Mormon eisegesis. You continue to confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture and the end result is salvation by works, which nullifies grace. (Romans 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

But that still connects our walk with God's grace:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

"if" is a condition conjunction.
You just don't get it! I thoroughly explained this to you in post #45, yet you still continue to connect grace with works righteousness. I understand that "if" is a contain conjunction and who meets the condition? This is worth repeating. Pay close attention this time.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lieand do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11, we read - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is connected to children of the devil.

So--"faith" to you is a faith without works?
Faith to me is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Authentic faith results in producing good works. (Ephesians 2:10) Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works. (James 2:14) Faith is faith and works are works. Works-salvationists basically wrap both faith and works up in a package and simply stamp faith on the package, making no distinction between faith and works. For works-salvationists, both faith and works are the root of salvation.

James 2:18-26---King James Version
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
CONTINUED..
 

MMDAN

Active member
Works-salvationists just cannot get it through their heads that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust and reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple! Too simple!

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. Again, James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came through faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs. (James 2:18)

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
And that has been my point all along--what the scriptures term a faith which is dead--the faith alone adherents call a saving faith.
Straw man argument. Faith alone adherents know that we are saved through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone "apart from the merit of works." (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Which is not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14) The natural man just doesn't understand. (1 Corinthians 2:14)
 

MMDAN

Active member
Where I come from--"and" is a conjunction connecting two or more things--not one, as you suggest:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Not in this case. Greek scholar A. T. Robertson comments on Acts 2:38 - he shows how the grammar of this verse can be used to support more than one interpretation of this text. He then reaches this conclusion: "One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received." The illustrations of both usages are numerous in the N.T. and the Koin, generally (Robertson, Grammar, page 592).

Again, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

*In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

After properly harmonizing scripture with scripture, my conclusion is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect harmony and scripture must harmonize with scripture* or else we have a contradiction and there are no contradictions in God's Word.

But in conjunction with obedience:

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
I already explained this to you multiple times. See post #57.

That only connects working righteousness with belief in God.
Only genuine believers work righteousness, so working righteousness is descriptive of genuine believers, yet we are still not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. (Titus 3:5) Get the picture?

Was this the reason why?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
So you're back to abusing the word "obey" and turning it into works salvation? sigh.. How do we receive the Holy Spirit? By believing the gospel. Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God? Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes..
Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report? So we obey the gospel (and obey him) by choosing to believe the gospel. Hence, Acts 5:31-32.

Did you exclude water baptism--because you know faith alone theology would be compromised if you allowed it to go unedited?
What happened to water baptism in John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 3:24-28; 4:5; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..?

Well--that's your choice--but the Biblical writers didn't exclude it:
The Biblical writers discuss water baptism, but Mormons apply eisegesis to those verses and the end result is works salvation.

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Already thoroughly explained. See post #45.

So--how is that any different than other testimonies connecting repentance and water baptism with God's grace?
I already explained this, but the truth continues to go right over your head and there is a reason for that.

Acts 22:16---King James Version
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary makes not of the importance of the Greek in Ananias' statement. When Ananias tells Paul to "arise, be baptized, wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord," the tense of the last command is literally "having called" (aorist middle participle). "Calling on [epikalesamenos] --- 'having (that is, after having) called on,' referring the confession of Christ which preceded baptism." [Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, vol. 3 pg. 160]. Kenneth Wuest picks up on this Greek nuance and translates the verse as follows: "And now, why are you delaying? Having arisen, be baptized and wash away your sins, having previously called upon His Name." (Acts 22:16, Wuest's Expanded NT).

Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17). It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--this was BEFORE he was water baptized (Acts 9:18). Verse 17 connects his being filled with the Spirit with the receiving of his sight. We know that he received his sight prior to his baptism.

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html

Was it not the very beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ?
Water baptism is not a part of the gospel (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4) even though it's mentioned throughout the 4 gospel accounts.

Mark 1:1-5---King James Version
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
In Matthew 3:11, we read - "I baptize you with water for repentance.. (NASB) Now was this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance? (which makes no sense at all) or was this baptism for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Obviously the latter. So water baptism does not obtain repentance or the remission of sins, but is done "in regards to/on the basis of" remission of sins received upon repentance.

It's the same in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3. John the Baptist preached a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. This baptism was for "in regards to/on the basis of" remission of sins received upon repentance.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." This was prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)

*HERMENEUTICS*
 
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