The Philosophical Character of Gnosticism

Gary Mac

Well-known member

1. The Philosophical Character of Gnosticism​

Everyone should read who Gnostics are but because of typical religious beliefs where people make up their own rules for a belief about a god, or some here have three of them, and mind you beliefs are not real they are speculation and go as far to make laws to govern their beliefs and anything outside their finite understanding actually accuse Jesus who was gnostic, a liar. One can believe anything about a god.

Some here who say gnostics are not of God and His ways is a lie, dont know God. Here is the bases of Gnosis. It is the same thing Jesus taught. We are in this world but not of it.

1. The Philosophical Character of Gnosticism​

Gnosticism, as an intellectual product, is grounded firmly in the general human act of reflecting upon existence. The Gnostics were concerned with the basic questions of existence or “being-in-the-world” (Dasein)—that is: who we are (as human beings), where we have come from, and where we are heading, historically and spiritually (cf. Hans Jonas, The Gnostic Religion 1958, p. 334). These questions lie at the very root of philosophical thinking; but the answers provided by the Gnostics go beyond philosophical speculation toward the realm of religious doctrine and mysticism. However, it is impossible to understand fully the meaning of Gnosticism without beginning at the philosophical level, and orienting oneself accordingly. Since any orientation toward an ancient phenomenon must always proceed by way of contemporary ideas and habits of mind, an interpretative discussion of Gnostic thinking as it applies to Psychology, Existentialism, and Hermeneutics, is not amiss here. Once we have understood, to the extent of our ability, the philosophical import of Gnostic ideas, and how they relate to contemporary philosophical issues, then we may enter into the historical milieu of the Gnostics with some degree of confidence—a confidence devoid, to the extent that this is possible, of tainting exegetical presuppositions.

a. Psychology​

Who are we? The answer to this question involves an account (logos) of the nature of the soul (psukhê or psyche); and the attempt to provide an answer has accordingly been dubbed the science or practice of “psychology”—an account of the soul or mind (psukhê, in ancient Greek, denoted both soul, as the principle of life, and mind, as the principle of intellect). Carl Jung, drawing upon Gnostic mythical schemas, identified the objectively oriented consciousness with the material or “fleshly” part of humankind—that is, with the part of the human being that is, according to the Gnostics, bound up in the cosmic cycle of generation and decay, and subject to the bonds of fate and time (cf. Apocryphon of John [Codex II] 28:30). The human being who identifies him/herself with the objectively existing world comes to construct a personality, a sense of self, that is, at base, fully dependent upon the ever-changing structures of temporal existence. The resulting lack of any sense of permanence, of autonomy, leads such an individual to experience anxieties of all kinds, and eventually to shun the mysterious and collectively meaningful patterns of human existence in favor of a private and stifling subjective context, in the confines of which life plays itself out in the absence of any reference to a greater plan or scheme. Hopelessness, atheism, despair, are the results of such an existence. This is not the natural end of the human being, though; for, according to Jung (and the Gnostics) the temporally constructed self is not the true self. The true self is the supreme consciousness existing and persisting beyond all space and time. Jung calls this the pure consciousness or Self, in contradistinction to the “ego consciousness” which is the temporally constructed and maintained form of a discrete existent (cf. C.G. Jung, “Gnostic Symbols of the Self,” in The Gnostic Jung 1992, pp. 55-92). This latter form of “worldly” consciousness the Gnostics identified with soul (psukhê), while the pure or true Self they identified with spirit (pneuma)—that is, mind relieved of its temporal contacts and context. This distinction had an important career in Gnostic thought, and was adopted by St. Paul, most notably in his doctrine of the spiritual resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:44). The psychological or empirical basis of this view, which soon turns into a metaphysical or onto-theological attitude, is the recognized inability of the human mind to achieve its grandest designs while remaining subject to the rigid law and order of a disinterested and aloof cosmos. The spirit-soul distinction (which of course translates into, or perhaps presupposes, the more fundamental mind-body distinction) marks the beginning of a transcendentalist and soteriological attitude toward the cosmos and temporal existence in general.

Not many here actually know what Jesus taught because they have their own beliefs, putting themselves about the teacher that God sent to show you what it is to have the same as Jesus had from God as gnostics know to be true through the same experience Jesus went though with his God in Matt 3:16. We can identify with the very same. If you are not as Jesus was in the Father then we all can understand how you would think that the ways of Jesus as a gnostic is a lie because you have created yopuor own gods, and even denomination has different laws to govern their gods in a belief about a god with noting in realty.

Just ask any of these if God is come to them as He came to Jesus and opened up who He is ands all of His heaven in that ma -- which is pure Gnosticism. His way is evil for many here. That is why most put Jesus on ignore in his day and had him crucified for blaspheme just as many here accuse his ways of, and even treat me the same way Jesus was treated and put me on ignore for the very same reason they did Jesus, only difference is they were able to crucify him, just as here in this forum they had, and have today, a different belief from the reality of God that Jesus received in Matt 3:16.
 
1. The Philosophical Character of Gnosticism
Here is the bases of Gnosis. It is the same thing Jesus taught. We are in this world but not of it.
Gnosticism, as an intellectual product, is grounded firmly in the general human act of reflecting upon existence. The Gnostics were concerned with the basic questions of existence or “being-in-the-world” (Dasein)—that is: who we are (as human beings), where we have come from, and where we are heading, historically and spiritually (cf. Hans Jonas, The Gnostic Religion 1958, p. 334). These questions lie at the very root of philosophical thinking; but the answers provided by the Gnostics go beyond philosophical speculation toward the realm of religious doctrine and mysticism.
Spiritual Fullness in Christ
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, live in union with Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith,
as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.

Beware lest anyone cheat you through empty deceitful gnostic philosophy according to the basic principles of the world,
and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head
of all principality and power. Col 2:6-10
 
Spiritual Fullness in Christ
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, live in union with Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith,
as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
I have not been taught by man, I have been taught by God Himself just as Jesus was taught by God in Matt 3:16.

You have been taught by man to be a sinner that you are and confess that you are, that is why the ways of God and Jesus are gnostic liars for you.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through empty deceitful gnostic philosophy according to the basic principles of the world,
Paul shot himself in the foot with that statement when he said he uses trickery to get you to follow him in his ways instead of God as Jesus followed his Father in His ways.

2 Cor 12:16 -- Be that as it may, I was not a burden to you; but crafty as I am, I caught you by trickery, and indeed he has taught you that you are just a dirty ole sinner not worth of the kingdom of God. Ans because you like Paul as a sinner and worship him, the righteousness that comes by Gods Spirit be in you and the ways of God and Jesus are only gnostic lies. Paul tricked you into believe that Gods ways to have His same mind is gnostic lies.

You really should look at Jesus life, he was without sin, so are we all who has received from God the same salvation as Jesus did in Matty 3:16 that you say he didnt need Gods salvation. You read what it says then flat pout call God in His ways a gnostic liar.




and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head
of all principality and power. Col 2:6-10
He shot himself in the foot again. If God was Pauls head, he would have been exactly;y as Jesus where God was the head of his body as well as He is the godhead bodily of us all who has received and like our Father who is our God. Because for you His is a gnostic liar, as you keep Him at charge, you have received your reward as a sinner that you have received instead of the righteousness off God in Christ to walk as He walks in His same light. Impossible for you to be His perfection.
 
Spiritual Fullness in Christ
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, live in union with Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith,
as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.

Beware lest anyone cheat you through empty deceitful gnostic philosophy according to the basic principles of the world,
and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head
of all principality and power. Col 2:6-10
It is that you never have learned Gods purpose for man. He demands absolute rectitude from we who are His servants because He has put in us gnostics the very nature of Himself to be in His same image which simply is Love for God is Love and man is the place God lives. You just have not learned where God resides because of your rebellion against Him in His ways and Jesus ways to be like them are gnostic liars for you that you keep charging Him of.

Nature produces it own kind, Spirit produces its own kind. Think on these things next time you call God and Jesus gnostic liars. You have not been produced by His own kind is all. The very reason you are not in His same. image, that seed has fallen by the wayside for you.
 
JonHawk said:
Spiritual Fullness in Christ
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, live in union with Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith,
as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.

Beware lest anyone cheat you through empty deceitful gnostic philosophy according to the basic principles of the world,
and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head
of all principality and power. Col 2:6-10
It is that you never have learned Gods purpose for man.
As double talking gnostics blatantly affirm, you have rejected God's plan of redemption for mankind.
Gary Mac "I do reject redemption through Jesus"
He demands absolute rectitude from we who are His servants because He has put in us gnostics the very nature of Himself...
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands [The Son of Man], I know that you don't associate with wicked gnostics, you have tested those who claim to be his servants but are not, and have found them false. Rev 2:1-2
Nature produces it own kind, Spirit produces its own kind. Think on these things next time you call God and Jesus gnostic liars.
And your gnostic deceptions will never produce life in Christ Jesus.
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test.
 
JonHawk said:
Spiritual Fullness in Christ
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, live in union with Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith,
as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.

Beware lest anyone cheat you through empty deceitful gnostic philosophy according to the basic principles of the world,
and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head
of all principality and power. Col 2:6-10

As double talking gnostics blatantly affirm, you have rejected God's plan of redemption for mankind.
Gary Mac "I do reject redemption through Jesus"

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands [The Son of Man], I know that you don't associate with wicked gnostics, you have tested those who claim to be his servants but are not, and have found them false. Rev 2:1-2

And your gnostic deceptions will never produce life in Christ Jesus.
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test.
You are the one without not I. Jesus is not Lord over you, you are lord over him and accuse him in his ways as gnostic lies.
 
JonHawk said:
Spiritual Fullness in Christ
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, live in union with Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith,
as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.

Beware lest anyone cheat you through empty deceitful gnostic philosophy according to the basic principles of the world,
and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head
of all principality and power. Col 2:6-10

As double talking gnostics blatantly affirm, you have rejected God's plan of redemption for mankind.
Gary Mac "I do reject redemption through Jesus"

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands [The Son of Man], I know that you don't associate with wicked gnostics, you have tested those who claim to be his servants but are not, and have found them false. Rev 2:1-2

And your gnostic deceptions will never produce life in Christ Jesus.
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test.
You are the one without not I. Jesus is not Lord over you, you are lord over him and accuse him in his ways as gnostic lies.
What does a believer in Christ have in common with a deceptive gnostic?
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12
 
What does a believer in Christ have in common with a deceptive gnostic?
We gnostic have everything to do with deceptive agnostics. God send us out to these just as Jesus did and are witness of our Father God to those who see Gods and Jesus was as gnostic liars.

Believers such as Jim Jones, David Koresh, and you who has a belief instead of the reality of God manifest in you, God send us to these. That is what we who are of Christ have in common.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12
Yep I am His son and I have His same life just as Jesus was His son so are we all who has been born of God as Jesus was born of God in Matt 3:16. born again.
 
We gnostic have everything to do with deceptive agnostics.
And your gnostic father; The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 1 John 3:8

I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of Me. Acts 26:15-18
 
And your gnostic father; The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 1 John 3:8
And He did in me to be perfect even as my Father in heaven is perfect, something you should consider of yourself in that Gnostic Father as Jesus received from his Gnostic Father.

He would you to if you would repent and stop calling Him a gnostic liar.
I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of Me. Acts 26:15-18
Indeed I have and became like Him just as Jesus did the same in Matt 3:16 when he saw Him.

he kicker here is when you see Him as He is, if you ever do, ye shall be like Him as well, 1 John 3.

But because He is a gnostic liar for you that aint never gonna happen.
 
JonHawk said:
And your gnostic father; The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 1 John 3:8
I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of Me. Acts 26:15-18
He would you to if you would repent and stop calling Him a gnostic liar.
Later Jesus appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16
he kicker here is when you see Him as He is, if you ever do, ye shall be like Him as well, 1 John 3.
I know that you acted in ignorance, as did the rulers [of this age]. But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, Act 3:17-21
But because He is a gnostic liar for you that aint never gonna happen.
You're not going to partake because you prefer your empty 'gnostic philosophical speculation.' What does a believer in Christ have in common with a deceptive gnostic?
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light; John 3:18-20
 
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1. The Philosophical Character of Gnosticism​

Everyone should read who Gnostics are but because of typical religious beliefs where people make up their own rules for a belief about a god, or some here have three of them, and mind you beliefs are not real they are speculation and go as far to make laws to govern their beliefs and anything outside their finite understanding actually accuse Jesus who was gnostic, a liar. One can believe anything about a god.

Some here who say gnostics are not of God and His ways is a lie, dont know God. Here is the bases of Gnosis. It is the same thing Jesus taught. We are in this world but not of it.

1. The Philosophical Character of Gnosticism​

Gnosticism, as an intellectual product, is grounded firmly in the general human act of reflecting upon existence. The Gnostics were concerned with the basic questions of existence or “being-in-the-world” (Dasein)—that is: who we are (as human beings), where we have come from, and where we are heading, historically and spiritually (cf. Hans Jonas, The Gnostic Religion 1958, p. 334). These questions lie at the very root of philosophical thinking; but the answers provided by the Gnostics go beyond philosophical speculation toward the realm of religious doctrine and mysticism. However, it is impossible to understand fully the meaning of Gnosticism without beginning at the philosophical level, and orienting oneself accordingly. Since any orientation toward an ancient phenomenon must always proceed by way of contemporary ideas and habits of mind, an interpretative discussion of Gnostic thinking as it applies to Psychology, Existentialism, and Hermeneutics, is not amiss here. Once we have understood, to the extent of our ability, the philosophical import of Gnostic ideas, and how they relate to contemporary philosophical issues, then we may enter into the historical milieu of the Gnostics with some degree of confidence—a confidence devoid, to the extent that this is possible, of tainting exegetical presuppositions.

a. Psychology​

Who are we? The answer to this question involves an account (logos) of the nature of the soul (psukhê or psyche); and the attempt to provide an answer has accordingly been dubbed the science or practice of “psychology”—an account of the soul or mind (psukhê, in ancient Greek, denoted both soul, as the principle of life, and mind, as the principle of intellect). Carl Jung, drawing upon Gnostic mythical schemas, identified the objectively oriented consciousness with the material or “fleshly” part of humankind—that is, with the part of the human being that is, according to the Gnostics, bound up in the cosmic cycle of generation and decay, and subject to the bonds of fate and time (cf. Apocryphon of John [Codex II] 28:30). The human being who identifies him/herself with the objectively existing world comes to construct a personality, a sense of self, that is, at base, fully dependent upon the ever-changing structures of temporal existence. The resulting lack of any sense of permanence, of autonomy, leads such an individual to experience anxieties of all kinds, and eventually to shun the mysterious and collectively meaningful patterns of human existence in favor of a private and stifling subjective context, in the confines of which life plays itself out in the absence of any reference to a greater plan or scheme. Hopelessness, atheism, despair, are the results of such an existence. This is not the natural end of the human being, though; for, according to Jung (and the Gnostics) the temporally constructed self is not the true self. The true self is the supreme consciousness existing and persisting beyond all space and time. Jung calls this the pure consciousness or Self, in contradistinction to the “ego consciousness” which is the temporally constructed and maintained form of a discrete existent (cf. C.G. Jung, “Gnostic Symbols of the Self,” in The Gnostic Jung 1992, pp. 55-92). This latter form of “worldly” consciousness the Gnostics identified with soul (psukhê), while the pure or true Self they identified with spirit (pneuma)—that is, mind relieved of its temporal contacts and context. This distinction had an important career in Gnostic thought, and was adopted by St. Paul, most notably in his doctrine of the spiritual resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:44). The psychological or empirical basis of this view, which soon turns into a metaphysical or onto-theological attitude, is the recognized inability of the human mind to achieve its grandest designs while remaining subject to the rigid law and order of a disinterested and aloof cosmos. The spirit-soul distinction (which of course translates into, or perhaps presupposes, the more fundamental mind-body distinction) marks the beginning of a transcendentalist and soteriological attitude toward the cosmos and temporal existence in general.

Not many here actually know what Jesus taught because they have their own beliefs, putting themselves about the teacher that God sent to show you what it is to have the same as Jesus had from God as gnostics know to be true through the same experience Jesus went though with his God in Matt 3:16. We can identify with the very same. If you are not as Jesus was in the Father then we all can understand how you would think that the ways of Jesus as a gnostic is a lie because you have created yopuor own gods, and even denomination has different laws to govern their gods in a belief about a god with noting in realty.

Just ask any of these if God is come to them as He came to Jesus and opened up who He is ands all of His heaven in that ma -- which is pure Gnosticism. His way is evil for many here. That is why most put Jesus on ignore in his day and had him crucified for blaspheme just as many here accuse his ways of, and even treat me the same way Jesus was treated and put me on ignore for the very same reason they did Jesus, only difference is they were able to crucify him, just as here in this forum they had, and have today, a different belief from the reality of God that Jesus received in Matt 3:16.
The disciples were clearly considered by Jesus to his followers and part of the kingdom of God. Yet they sinned all the time.

Your false doctrines are based upon cherry picked verses taken without biblical context. Not to mention you cherry pick which parts of scripture are divinely inpired to fit your doctrine.
 
The disciples were clearly considered by Jesus to his followers and part of the kingdom of God. Yet they sinned all the time.
Actually ever single one of Jesus disciples refused Jesus to be identified with hi in his trials and tribulations, not a single one came to his aid.

They were sinners up to the point when God came to them by His Spirit and made them holy, pure, and without sin, and actually could not sin because they were born of God just as all today who are born again as Jesus was in Matt 3:16. They went about no different from what Jesus did at all.
Your false doctrines are based upon cherry picked verses taken without biblical context. Not to mention you cherry pick which parts of scripture are divinely inpired to fit your doctrine.
Isn't the real truth is that your false doctrines are products based upon cherry picked verses taken without SPIRITUAL context. Not to mention you cherry pick which parts of scripture are divinely inspired to fit your doctrine as the creed that you worship as your god?

If you were of Christ you would be no different from who Jesus was in the Father, perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, but because you cherry pick that commandment from Jesus himself doesnt apply to you does it?
 
Actually ever single one of Jesus disciples refused Jesus to be identified with hi in his trials and tribulations, not a single one came to his aid.

They were sinners up to the point when God came to them by His Spirit and made them holy, pure, and without sin, and actually could not sin because they were born of God just as all today who are born again as Jesus was in Matt 3:16. They went about no different from what Jesus did at all.
Actually no. Jesus made it clear they were his deciples and part of the spiritual family and in the kingdom of God, they simply were not yet mature.

Your false doctrine simply ignores much of scripture. Like babes in Christ which you deny exist.
I could go on and on with the denial and cherry picking which scriptures you think are not inspired.
 
Actually no. Jesus made it clear they were his deciples and part of the spiritual family and in the kingdom of God, they simply were not yet mature.
Well which one of them came to his aid to be identified with Jesus in his trials and tribulations? I agree they were not mature in thew Father just as Jesus was not mature in the Father until he was about 30 years old when God came to him and opened up whop He is and all of His heaven in that man. Only then did Jesus become mature in the Father and started the works of God in real time actions.

120 of these receieved the same information from God as Jesus did and became mature in Him and went about no different from the ways Jesus went in the Father after Ma3:16 and not before.

Abraham, Moses, even Adam became like Him to know this difference, Gen 3;22.
Your false doctrine simply ignores much of scripture.
Only to those who has not received from God His enlightenment,ent to understands the spiritual content of it all. God is a Spirit but I point think you have learned that yet to be mature enough to carry out His commands as Jesus and these others did who did receieve from God the same mind.
Like babes in Christ which you deny exist.
You are a bae in Christ, you have not matured into that shepherd, you still are as sheep following a leader instead of being the leader.
I could go on and on with the denial and cherry picking which scriptures you think are not inspired.
Yep you can go on and on with your religious beliefs, and you will until you to see Him as He is, 1 John 3, then ye shall be like Him as well and have His same mind and you would walk in it as He walks in it with the same signs following. But that isn't going to happen is it? for as you say His ways is false doctrine for your creed.
 
Well which one of them came to his aid

that is not a requirement to be in the kingdom of God. That is your false doctrine.

Jesus made it plain They were in the kingdom of God while immature.

Just like you deny there are babes in Christ as scripture teaches.

120 of these receieved the same information from God as Jesus did and became mature in Him and went about no different from the ways Jesus went in the Father after Ma3:16 and not before.

Abraham, Moses, even Adam became like Him to know this difference, Gen 3;22.
Yet Moses was punished for sin and did not enter the promised land. Your doctrine Contradicts scripture at every turn.
Only to those who has not received from God His enlightenment,ent to understands the spiritual content of it all. God is a Spirit but I point think you have learned that yet to be mature enough to carry out His commands as Jesus and these others did who did receieve from God the same mind.
Spiritual enlightenment does not mean perfection. That is your false doctrine. We see imperfect spiritual people all through scripture.
Here is one o f the many scriptures which refute your false doctrine.

Matthew 16: 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven
the Father was spiritually revealing truth to imperfect spiritual men.
You are a bae in Christ, you have not matured into that shepherd, you still are as sheep following a leader instead of being the leader.
And to be in Christ into be spiritually alive and in the kingdom of God.

1 cor 3: For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building

Those same babes in christ were the temple of God. His spiritual people.
Yep you can go on and on with your religious beliefs, and you will until you to see Him as He is, 1 John 3, then ye shall be like Him as well and have His same mind and you would walk in it as He walks in it with the same signs following. But that isn't going to happen is it? for as you say His ways is false doctrine for your creed.
Your ways are false doctrine as I have shown through scripture.
 
that is not a requirement to be in the kingdom of God. That is your false doctrine.
You missed the whole point Are you identified with God the same as Jesus was? Not one of them could and very few today find His ways as Jesus did.
Jesus made it plain They were in the kingdom of God while immature.
Where?
Just like you deny there are babes in Christ as scripture teaches.
A babe grows up at some point.
Yet Moses was punished for sin and did not enter the promised land. Your doctrine Contradicts scripture at every turn.
Moses entered the promised land on the mountain with God Himself. Jesus entered the promised land in the river when God Himself came to him just as He did in Moses. He wasn't punished he was blessed by God, and the very reason God buried Moses in a place no man knew and a Jesus in a place no man knows is because had he entered into that Eden, man in his religious ways would have made him a god to be worshiped just as they do Jesus today in ignorance for never meeting God as these did.
Spiritual enlightenment does not mean perfection. That is your false doctrine. We see imperfect spiritual people all through scripture.
Here is one o f the many scriptures which refute your false doctrine.
There was only one who was perfect that we read of and that is Gods Spirit in man. Even Jesus came after the order of Melchizedek as king and priest.

There is no perfection of God outside of having His same mind.
Matthew 16: 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven
Yes God Himself is the only one who can open the hearts and minds of man so obvious in Matt 3:16.
the Father was spiritually revealing truth to imperfect spiritual men.
And still does.
And to be in Christ into be spiritually alive and in the kingdom of God.
Describe -- to be in Christ, what does that mean for you?
1 cor 3: For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building
I am indeed but I am not the sinner Paul says we are.
Those same babes in christ were the temple of God. His spiritual people.
When does that babe grow up? Jesus grew up in Matt 3:16, Adam grew up in Gen 3:22, Abraham grew up on the mountain, Moses grew up on the mountain, 120 grew up in an upper room. I grew up when the same God who came to all of these came to me and made us mature, perfect, as He is mature, or perfect.


Your ways are false doctrine as I have shown through scripture.
All you have shown is your lack in spiritual discernment that the scriptures are really about.
 
You missed the whole point Are you identified with God the same as Jesus was? Not one of them could and very few today find His ways as Jesus did.

Where?

A babe grows up at some point.

Moses entered the promised land on the mountain with God Himself. Jesus entered the promised land in the river when God Himself came to him just as He did in Moses. He wasn't punished he was blessed by God, and the very reason God buried Moses in a place no man knew and a Jesus in a place no man knows is because had he entered into that Eden, man in his religious ways would have made him a god to be worshiped just as they do Jesus today in ignorance for never meeting God as these did.

There was only one who was perfect that we read of and that is Gods Spirit in man. Even Jesus came after the order of Melchizedek as king and priest.

There is no perfection of God outside of having His same mind.

Yes God Himself is the only one who can open the hearts and minds of man so obvious in Matt 3:16.

And still does.

Describe -- to be in Christ, what does that mean for you?

I am indeed but I am not the sinner Paul says we are.

When does that babe grow up? Jesus grew up in Matt 3:16, Adam grew up in Gen 3:22, Abraham grew up on the mountain, Moses grew up on the mountain, 120 grew up in an upper room. I grew up when the same God who came to all of these came to me and made us mature, perfect, as He is mature, or perfect.



All you have shown is your lack in spiritual discernment that the scriptures are really about.
You are totally deflecting away from 2 examples that prove you wrong among the many.

Peter was give truth straight from the Father because Peter was his spiritual child. Yet Peter went on to sin.

Your doctrine Contradicts plain scripture.

Likewise Moses was God's servant and faithful to him, yet was not perfect and sinned and was punished by God.
 
You are totally deflecting away from 2 examples that prove you wrong among the many.
Care to expound on your accusations?
Peter was give truth straight from the Father because Peter was his spiritual child. Yet Peter went on to sin.
If one is go God there is no sin to be had. He really does take away the sins of this world, 1 John 3, you just dont believe Him that He does is all and cant be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect as God commands of you as well.
Your doctrine Contradicts plain scripture.
It does foe one who is of a carnal mind and cant relate top the same mind Jesus had of the father. Heck even Adam receieved that knowledge and became like Him to know this difference. Gen 3;22, Abraham receieved that same knowledge3 by Gods Spirit, mind. Moses received the same and became like God to know this difference. Jesus received the same knowledge in Matt 3:16 when he became like GHod to know this difference, 120 in an upper room dod the same.

You havent received form God that what these did from God have you? There is no way you can know Him without the same revelation as all of these received from God Himself where all of these became like Him to know this difference.

Jesus described this new mind as born again.
Likewise Moses was God's servant and faithful to him, yet was not perfect and sinned and was punished by God.
Moses wants punished by God at all, God doesnt punish man LOL, GHod saves man from themselves and their man made religious doctrines that are void of His mind too be like Him, and walk as He walks ion His same light with the same signs following, perfect even as our Father unshaven is perfect no different from Him at at all.

You are different from Him aren't you? Iwoukld guess that you are a sinner instead. And you learned that from sinners and not from God at all. God takes away the sins of this world, 1 John 3, you just dont believe Him that He does is all.
 
Moses wants punished by God at all, God doesnt punish man LOL,

Scripture refutes you.

Number 20:
And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.
 
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