The Prodigal Son

[Synergy]

I agree with Eph 1:13 but not your false addition to it. Eph 1:13 says nothing about “regeneration”.

In Calvinism, how is one sealed with the Holy Spirit without being regenerated by the Holy Spirit?

I do not take issue with any, for none of them support your contradiction of 1 Cor 2:14.

I take issue with your assumption that ψυχικὸς person does accept and understand the things of the Spirit of God, contained in the preaching of Christ crucified, as something other than “folly”.

You're not reading what I wrote. I acknowledged the following:
"the ψυχικὸς man is not a πνευματικὸς man yet and cannot discern spiritual things".

Scripture is clearly against your assumption stating…

You can't just throw scripture against scripture and hope your scripture verses overwhelm all other scripture verses. You need to harmonize all Bible verses if you're ever going to arrive at the truth.

Again:
1) Man has been granted a conscience, a heart, and a mind by God (Rom 2:14-16),
2) and even made accountable to God's Gospel (Rom 2:16),
3) and is reachable by the power of the Holy Spirit's convicting ministry (John 16:7-15).

To deny all that is not only to denigrate the gifts that God has given to all mankind but it is also a denial of the power of the Holy Spirit to convict the entire world.

“For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” (1Co 1:18)

…and…

“but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called… Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.” (1Co 1:23-24)

Those who are called are not always those who will be elected.
Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few chosen (elected)."

“And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,” (1Co 1:30)

Another wonderful "in Christ" verse. Thanks for sharing that one.

Can you answer as to how the preaching of Christ crucified became to us “the power and wisdom of God” instead of “folly”?

It's when the ψυχικὸς man becomes a πνευματικὸς man.

The big question is: How does the ψυχικὸς (not "in Christ") man become a πνευματικὸς ("in Christ") man?

Can you answer that question?

 

[Sketo]

Because the Bible mentions both.

Chronologically:
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, the nations, in time past were in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.

Spiritually:
Eph 1:4 according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

How does Calvinism reconcile Eph 2:11-13 ("in Christ" after foundation of the world) with Eph 1:4 ("in Christ" before foundation of the world)?

None of that speaks of God "choosing" AFTER "the foundation of the world".

All this shows is the Storyline Level outplay of what God determined BEFORE the foundation.

...

 

[Theo1689]

In Calvinism, how does one be sealed with the Holy Spirit without being regenerated by the Holy Spirit?

Can you answer that question?

Why do you expect anyone to answer YOUR questions when YOU keep dodging questions posed to you?

YOU falsely claimed that one believes prior to being regenerated.
Eph. 1:13 does NOT teach "belief prior to regeneration".

 

[guest1]

One can only have new life after the gospel is heard, belief- faith , confession and repentance.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Howie]

One can only have new life after the gospel is heard, belief- faith , confession and repentance.

hope this helps !!!

False teaching ^

 

[Howie]

Because the Bible mentions both.

Chronologically:
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, the nations, in time past were in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.

Spiritually:
Eph 1:4 according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

How does Calvinism reconcile Eph 2:11-13 ("in Christ" after foundation of the world) with Eph 1:4 ("in Christ" before foundation of the world)?

Reconcile what?

 

[Synergy]

None of that speaks of God "choosing" AFTER "the foundation of the world".

Are you saying that someone other than God did the "in Christ" choosing for the people that Paul is referring to? Please tell us more....

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, the nations, in time past were in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.

 

[Howie]

Are you saying that someone other than God did the "in Christ" choosing for the people that Paul is referring to? Please tell us more....

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, the nations, in time past were in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.

Yikes!!

 

[Synergy]

YOU falsely claimed that one believes prior to being regenerated.
Eph. 1:13 does NOT teach "belief prior to regeneration".

In Calvinism, how is one sealed with the Holy Spirit without being regenerated by the Holy Spirit?

Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[guest1]

False teaching ^

Yes I'm correcting yours below, Thanks for another opportunity to show the lurkers.

The lurkers can see the truth below

Anyone granted eyes to see knows the order below and scripture is consistent in both testaments. The Spirit comes after believe, receive, confess, repent etc.......


Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel. Receive, Believe, Birth

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.

Romans 10:8-13

But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

In Acts below the Spirit comes after repentance

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In Galatians the Spirit comes after hearing, believing, receiving

Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

Summary of The Biblical order- notice where new life, regeneration is on the list from Scripture.

1- the preaching of the gospel- Rom 10
2- the hearing of the gospel- Rom 10
3- belief in the gospel- John 1:12
4- receiving the gospel- John 1:12
5- repentance Luke 5:32
6- the new birth that results in #7
7- salvation, eternal life- John 1:13
8- Justification- Rom 8:30
9- Sanctification- Rom 8
10- Glorification Rom 8:30


conclusion : the Spirit comes after faith , belief, receiving, repentance, confession, not before.

 

[Synergy]

Yikes!!

Inquiring minds want to know what Sketo meant when he said the following about Eph 2:11-13:

None of that speaks of God "choosing" AFTER "the foundation of the world".

 

[Howie]

Because the Bible mentions both.

Chronologically:
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, the nations, in time past were in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.

Spiritually:
Eph 1:4 according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

How does Calvinism reconcile Eph 2:11-13 ("in Christ" after foundation of the world) with Eph 1:4 ("in Christ" before foundation of the world)?

How do you reconcile Jesus being slain before the foundation of the world and after the foundation of the world? Why wasn"t your sect preaching the Gospel in the old testament if He was slain before the foundatiion of the world.

 

[Howie]

Inquiring minds want to know what Sketo meant when he said the following about Eph 2:11-13:

Simple: None of that speaks of God "choosing" AFTER "the foundation of the world".

Got it?

 

[Synergy]

How do you reconcile Jesus being slain before the foundation of the world and after the foundation of the world? Why wasn"t your sect preaching the Gospel in the old testament

Which "sect" would that be?

if He was slain before the foundatiion of the world.

Regeneration was made available only after Pentecost. The OT Saints were justified faithful believers but not regenerated in OT times. There is no regeneration in the entire OT.

 

[Howie]

Yes I'm correcting yours below, Thanks for another opportunity to show the lurkers.

The lurkers can see the truth below

Anyone granted eyes to see knows the order below and scripture is consistent in both testaments. The Spirit comes after believe, receive, confess, repent etc.......


Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel. Receive, Believe, Birth

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.

Romans 10:8-13

But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

In Acts below the Spirit comes after repentance

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In Galatians the Spirit comes after hearing, believing, receiving

Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

Summary of The Biblical order- notice where new life, regeneration is on the list from Scripture.

1- the preaching of the gospel- Rom 10
2- the hearing of the gospel- Rom 10
3- belief in the gospel- John 1:12
4- receiving the gospel- John 1:12
5- repentance Luke 5:32
6- the new birth that results in #7
7- salvation, eternal life- John 1:13
8- Justification- Rom 8:30
9- Sanctification- Rom 8
10- Glorification Rom 8:30


conclusion : the Spirit comes after faith , belief, receiving, repentance, confession, not before.

Yes I'm correcting yours below, Thanks for another opportunity to show the lurkers.

The lurkers can see the truth below

Anyone granted eyes to see knows the order below and scripture is consistent in both testaments. The Spirit comes after believe, receive, confess, repent etc.......


Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel. Receive, Believe, Birth

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.

Romans 10:8-13

But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

In Acts below the Spirit comes after repentance

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In Galatians the Spirit comes after hearing, believing, receiving

Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

Summary of The Biblical order- notice where new life, regeneration is on the list from Scripture.

1- the preaching of the gospel- Rom 10
2- the hearing of the gospel- Rom 10
3- belief in the gospel- John 1:12
4- receiving the gospel- John 1:12
5- repentance Luke 5:32
6- the new birth that results in #7
7- salvation, eternal life- John 1:13
8- Justification- Rom 8:30
9- Sanctification- Rom 8
10- Glorification Rom 8:30


conclusion : the Spirit comes after faith , belief, receiving, repentance, confession, not before.

Who drew all these folks to Christ and made them spiritually alive so they could repent and believe? Do you know who did that?

For the lurkers see Rom 8:7-8

In the flesh = unregenerate.

 

[Synergy]

Simple: None of that speaks of God "choosing" AFTER "the foundation of the world".

Got it?

Then who did the "in Christ" choosing for the people that Paul is referring to in Eph 2:11-13? ?

 

[Howie]

Which "sect" would that be?

Regeneration was made available only after Pentecost. The OT Saints were justified faithful believers but not regenerated in OT times. There is no regeneration in the entire OT.

But they were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ...

 

[Howie]

Then who did the "in Christ" choosing for the people that Paul is referring to in Eph 2:11-13? ?

Oh brother. ?

Eph 1:3

 

[Sketo]

Can you answer as to how the preaching of Christ crucified became to us “the power and wisdom of God” instead of “folly”?

It's when the ψυχικὸς man becomes a πνευματικὸς man.

Just to be clear: you are saying ψυχικὸς man must first become πνευματικὸς man before the “preaching of Christ crucified” can be understood as “the power and wisdom of God”… correct?

…

 

[Theo1689]

In Calvinism, how is one sealed with the Holy Spirit without being regenerated by the Holy Spirit?

Calvinism doesn't teach that.

Any more worthless strawmen you want to spew?

Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Where does this allegedly teach belief comes before regeneration?!