Sketo
Well-known member
So again what does “BEFORE the foundation” mean in your understanding?
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love” (Eph 1:4)
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So again what does “BEFORE the foundation” mean in your understanding?
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love” (Eph 1:4)
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Are you sure about that? Read Eph 1:13:
Eph 1:13 "in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, "
Sketo
Well-known member
Yes, all part of what God planned for “us before the foundation of the world”.
“Hearing, believing, sealed with the Holy Spirit” is what God “chose” for us before the foundation. We are living it out now after the foundation.
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Paul is talking on the spiritual level. The phrase "in him" is vital to our understanding of Eph 1:4. Being chosen by God "in Christ" spiritually blesses and places you in the heavenlies "in Christ Jesus". There's that all-important "in Christ" phrase again and again. Since Christ is above temporal time then we are blessed accordingly and makes Eph 1:4 true for those who are "in Christ".
Sketo
Well-known member
So again (x2) what does “BEFORE the foundation” mean in your understanding?
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love” (Eph 1:4)
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Reformedguy
Well-known member
They never mention free will. FAIL
Not in my case. We were chosen temporally after the foundation of the world (after we believed and were regenerated). We were chosen spiritually before the foundation of the world when God chooses to place us in the heavenlies "in Christ" Who is beyond temporal time.
Sketo
Well-known member
But in the Bible’s case it is…
The Bible only speaks of one “choosing” in Eph 1:4… why do you feel it necessary to add a second “choosing after” to scripture?
“even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love” (Eph 1:4)
Only one choosing and it happened “before the foundation”!
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It is one choosing that can be viewed two ways: temporally and spiritually. Temporally, God chose us when we believed and were regenerated. Spiritually, God chose us beyond time because He is not confined by time. To drive that point home, Paul declares that you were chosen by God (but only "in Christ") before the formation of the world.
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guest1
Guest
It can only be that way as any other way becomes nonsense. Thanks !
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Sorry. Not mention of "temporally" in the text. Feel free to make it up as you go though
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guest1
Guest
that sounds familiar- tulip, doctrines of grace, determinism etc.... all made up lol.
hope this helps !!!
Just a side note I'd like to make about Eph 1:13 since we're looking at it. Notice that hearing and belief in the Gospel precede regeneration.
Eph 1:13 "in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, "
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guest1
Guest
Amen scripture is consistent as it always precedes regeneration as does faith/repentance.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Sheep or not, a believer's part can be removed out of the Book of Life according to Rev 22:19:
Rev 22:19 "And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which have been written in this Book."
Also, there remains a possibility of one's name being blotted out of the Book of Life in Rev 3:5. Jesus is not in a habit of saying things he cannot do:
Rev 3:5 "The one who overcomes, this one will be clothed in white clothing. And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."
Conclusion: the Reformed PofS crashes and burns.
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