The real issue is .......

Reformedguy

Well-known member
But I also believe that “the when God enables someone it’s 100% effectual and always pool accomplishes its intended purpose”! Prevenient grace is only one step in the process and it accomplishes exactly what is sets out to do.

Think of it as putting has into a car. It is a necessary step toward driving, but it doesn’t start the car, it doesn’t turn the key to start the engine. Grace that goes before sets everything up so that mankind "would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us." (Acts 17:27) Any one of us might seek him, reach out for him, and find him because of the grace that went before.

But, while this setting of the table is effectually finished, and thus has accomplished what it set out to do, its responsibility is not to save in itself, but to create the opportunity that any one of us might be saved.

Doug
But if I put gas into my car I intend to drive it. The care will not drive itself. I do not put gas into it and sit there and hope it starts. God does not enable you to believe and simply hopes you do. He enables you in a way your believing is assured. Your apology fails
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
But if I put gas into my car I intend to drive it. The care will not drive itself. I do not put gas into it and sit there and hope it starts. God does not enable you to believe and simply hopes you do. He enables you in a way your believing is assured. Your apology fails
It's not about the intent, it is about the process of accomplishment. Gas is one element in the process of driving, if that is your intent! God's intent is to have man "seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us." That is why, according to Paul, God has done all that he has done in establishing the times and circumstances of the nations. God's intent is for man to seek him, so God sought us through Christ!


Doug
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Who said differently?
If God only wills one thing, then all other things are NOT possible. Therefore, the claim that all things are possible is false. God creates vessels of mercy and vessels fitted for destruction, and neither the twain shall meet. They are not equivalent. In other words, it isn't possible for a vessel of mercy to be a vessel fitted for destruction.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
If God only wills one thing, then all other things are NOT possible. Therefore, the claim that all things are possible is false. God creates vessels of mercy and vessels fitted for destruction, and neither the twain shall meet. They are not equivalent. In other words, it isn't possible for a vessel of mercy to be a vessel fitted for destruction.
Oh good grief!

what would you like to talk about shnarkle?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
It's not about the intent, it is about the process of accomplishment. Gas is one element in the process of driving, if that is your intent! God's intent is to have man "seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us." That is why, according to Paul, God has done all that he has done in establishing the times and circumstances of the nations. God's intent is for man to seek him, so God sought us through Christ!


Doug
God has not intent? Where does the Bible say or even hint at that

But no one seeks God according to scripture.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
God has not intent? Where does the Bible say or even hint at that

But no one seeks God according to scripture.

The absolute sense of this, while true, can only be said of man in his natural state, void of any divine grace intervening his circumstance. Paul’s argument in Rom 3 is the culmination of his arguments in the previous two chapters. Paul is not saying that no one ever seeks God, for that must include Paul and David whom he quotes.

Moreover, Paul tells the Athenians that he sees that they are a “very religious” people, go have been seeking many Gods, including “the Unknown God” that he is about to identify to them!

The fact that religion has always been a part of the human experience shows that man has always sought a ‘greater being’, though that ‘being’ is distorted and ultimately false because of the sinful nature.

Doug
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
Okay, then what is it? To save or merely enable?
I stated it clearly in my post!

“God's intent is to have man "seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us." That is why, according to Paul, God has done all that he has done in establishing the times and circumstances of the nations. God's intent is for man to seek him, so God sought us through Christ!”

Doug
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
The absolute sense of this, while true, can only be said of man in his natural state, void of any divine grace intervening his circumstance. Paul’s argument in Rom 3 is the culmination of his arguments in the previous two chapters. Paul is not saying that no one ever seeks God, for that must include Paul and David whom he quotes.

That's right. He is quoting the Scriptures of the Jews to prove to the Jews that they too are under sin just as the Gentiles.

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God

The passages cited prove that Jews also are sinners, not just Gentiles.

Moreover, Paul tells the Athenians that he sees that they are a “very religious” people, go have been seeking many Gods, including “the Unknown God” that he is about to identify to them!

The fact that religion has always been a part of the human experience shows that man has always sought a ‘greater being’, though that ‘being’ is distorted and ultimately false because of the sinful nature.

Doug
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
I stated it clearly in my post!

“God's intent is to have man "seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us." That is why, according to Paul, God has done all that he has done in establishing the times and circumstances of the nations. God's intent is for man to seek him, so God sought us through Christ!”

Doug
So if that is His intent then why does He not do so? Especially if this enabling is universal.
 
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