The rebirth of Israel can only come with the coming of the messiah?
- Thread starter shnarkle
- Start date
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Can you provide a link to the article?
Open Heart
Well-known member
This belief is common among the ultra-orthodox, who make up a very small minority of the Jewish people. But, if you just look, you can see that Israel is already here. So their point is already disproven by obvious reality.
puddleglum
Well-known member
Ezekiel 37 tells us how Israel will be restored. God shows Ezekiel a valley full of dry bones and tells him that is the current condition of Israel and commands him to prophesy to the bones.
So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them.
Ezekiel 37:7,8 ESV
That represents the state of Israel today. They are a nation that is strong militarily and economically but they are still dead spiritually because they have not yet acknowledged Jesus as their Messiah.
Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord God: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
Ezekiel 37:9,10 ESV
This will take place when Jesus returns, so in a sense those who believe the Messiah must return for Israel to be fully established are right. The present nation is merely the foundation for this to take place.
So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them.
Ezekiel 37:7,8 ESV
That represents the state of Israel today. They are a nation that is strong militarily and economically but they are still dead spiritually because they have not yet acknowledged Jesus as their Messiah.
Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord God: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
Ezekiel 37:9,10 ESV
This will take place when Jesus returns, so in a sense those who believe the Messiah must return for Israel to be fully established are right. The present nation is merely the foundation for this to take place.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Ezekiel 45:22
On that day the prince shall provide a bull as a sin offering for himself and for all the people of the land.
Nothing in Ezekiel mentions a problem with acknowledging Messiah.
American Gothic
Well-known member
Does it say in ch. 37 who the prince is?
"David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever."
it looks like the prince has a position of authority over the people of Israel
but he is not necessarily King of the World
"David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever."
it looks like the prince has a position of authority over the people of Israel
but he is not necessarily King of the World
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American Gothic
Well-known member
as referenced above -
Israel is brought back to the Land, but in unbelief (yes, a spiritually dead condition)
" but there was no breath in them" ch. 37 v. 8
"O My people, and brought you up from your graves. I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live" verse 13
that is something God has to fix
only "then will you know that I am the Lord" v. 13
they won't and can't believe and acknowledge Messiah until that problem is solved
"Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."
Genesis 2
it's a problem all of humanity has from the Fall
and something Jews, who have the Scriptures, should already know
Israel is brought back to the Land, but in unbelief (yes, a spiritually dead condition)
" but there was no breath in them" ch. 37 v. 8
"O My people, and brought you up from your graves. I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live" verse 13
that is something God has to fix
only "then will you know that I am the Lord" v. 13
they won't and can't believe and acknowledge Messiah until that problem is solved
"Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."
Genesis 2
it's a problem all of humanity has from the Fall
and something Jews, who have the Scriptures, should already know
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American Gothic
Well-known member
"But the priests, the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of My sanctuary
...they shall come near Me to minister to Me" Ezekiel ch. 44
"In controversy they shall stand as judges, and judge it according to My judgments" verse 24
David and the Zadoks will rule and judge Israel and facilitate all commanded Religious ritual, festivals, Sabbaths, and legal proceedings
in service of a Higher authority
...they shall come near Me to minister to Me" Ezekiel ch. 44
"In controversy they shall stand as judges, and judge it according to My judgments" verse 24
David and the Zadoks will rule and judge Israel and facilitate all commanded Religious ritual, festivals, Sabbaths, and legal proceedings
in service of a Higher authority
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puddleglum
Well-known member
Perhaps the prince will only govern Israel but Jesus will be ruler of the whole world.
American Gothic
Well-known member
it's normal for people to think the creation is human centric and made for us
and maybe for Jews to look at things specifically from a kingdom of Israel perspective only
but God is (and will be) King of Kings and Lord of Lords throughout all of His creation
and that includes dominions, principalities, and powers not just on Earth but beyond as well
it's actually all made for Him and for His glory
to me it seems reasonable He has administrators to manage certain things on His behalf
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