The Resurrection Body of Christ

[Sethproton]

As I understand this particular thread, the posters here are not necessarily Christian, but I thought it might be interesting to put some ideas out here about the Bible.
This one is about the kind of body Christ got after He died and resurrected. While it is not a standard Christian idea, the Bible has many verses that tell a different story from standard Christianity.
When He died, He left that body behind in the tomb and His soul went to the place of the dead. When he resurrected, He received a body from heaven and His old fleshly body was disposed of.
One of the first clues in the Bible was that when He resurrected and appeared to those who knew Him, nobody recognized Him by His face or voice.
This irritates Christians, but it seems to be what the Bible teaches.

 

[The Pixie]

I am pretty sure this was how the first Christians understood the resurrection, and is what Paul describes.

2 Cor 5:1 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies.[a] 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

 

[Sethproton]

I am pretty sure this was how the first Christians understood the resurrection, and is what Paul describes.

2 Cor 5:1 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies.[a] 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

Yes, exactly. That is one of the passages that changed my mind away from the standard Christian position that Jesus reinhabited His old body.

 

[Fred]

When he resurrected, He received a body from heaven and His old fleshly body was disposed of.

Do you have anything from the Bible that backs up this absurd claim?

 

[e v e 21]

He received a body from heaven and His old fleshly body was disposed of.

yes..

 

[The Pixie]

Do you have anything from the Bible that backs up this absurd claim?

Besides 2 Cor 5 quoted earlier:

1 Cor 15:35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.​

38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.​

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.​

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.​

Note that this was the belief of the Pharisees. Paul stopped being a Pharisee because he believed the messiah had arrived, but his view of the nature of the resurrection was unchanged.

14. But then as to the two other orders at first mentioned, the Pharisees are those who are esteemed most skillful in the exact explication of their laws, and introduce the first sect. These ascribe all to fate [or providence], and to God, and yet allow, that to act what is right, or the contrary, is principally in the power of men, although fate does co-operate in every action. They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, - but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment.​

- Josephus, Jewish War 2.8.14​

We also have Jesus' words, when he said the bodies of the resurrected are like angels, not men.

Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?​

25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.​

 

[Fred]

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.​

Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?​

25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.​

1. The corruptible will "put on" the incorruptible (1 Cor. 15:53, 54). A natural body does not yet have this.

2. They are like the angels in that they "neither marry, nor are given in marriage."


Christ's physical resurrection
1. He had "flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39).
2. He offered to show the marks from the nails in His hands and the mark from the spear that was thrust into His side (John 20:27).
3. He ate fish (Luke 24:41-43).
4. The disciples took hold of His feet (Matthew 28:9).

 

[The Pixie]

1. The corruptible will "put on" the incorruptible (1 Cor. 15:53, 54). A natural body does not yet have this.

The righteous will discard the corruptible, natural body, and put on the incorruptible, spiritual body.

2. They are like the angels in that they "neither marry, nor are given in marriage."

They are like angels, i.e., spiritual beings. Therefore they will neither marry nor are given in marriage.

Christ's physical resurrection
1. He had "flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39).
2. He offered to show the marks from the nails in His hands and the mark from the spear that was thrust into His side (John 20:27).
3. He ate fish (Luke 24:41-43).
4. The disciples took hold of His feet (Matthew 28:9).

This is certainly the later view by the time these gospels were written.

 

[Fred]

The righteous will discard the corruptible, natural body,

No passage teaches what you just asserted.

This is certainly the later view by the time these gospels were written.

The same view. The Bible is consistent. It is your misunderstanding that is not.

 

[CrowCross]

His old fleshly body was disposed of.

That's not what the bible teaches.
The Tomb was empty.

 

[Sethproton]

Do you have anything from the Bible that backs up this absurd claim?

Yes, there are many verses to consider, one poster has already offered 2 Cor 5:1+2 and 1 Cor 15:35-42 which both speak of two bodies. And I already mentioned that no one recognized His face or voice
I won't throw a bunch of verses at you at once, but those three are clear to me that there are two bodies
Here is another idea to consider about the bodies Jesus appeared in post resurrection Mark 16:12 says that on His second appearnce He took another form. This speaks to the idea that what they saw post resurrection was not His spiritual body, but forms He adopted in order to be seen by men. And this is strengthened by 2 Cor 4:8 which states that spiritual things are unseen, so His spiritual body would not have been visible. Acts 10:40 God granted Him to become visible, which means otherwise, He would have been invisible.

There is more. But if you want to discuss each of these first, be glad to

 

[Sethproton]

That's not what the bible teaches.
The Tomb was empty.

Yes. The empty tomb is also a clue which is in line with what will eventually happen to the entire universe that will be disposed of like an old garment and replaced with new. Heb 1:12. Since Jesus was the first born from the dead, He already experienced what believers will experience on resurrection day: a new body

 

[Sethproton]

Besides 2 Cor 5 quoted earlier:

1 Cor 15:35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.​

38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.​

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.​

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.​

Note that this was the belief of the Pharisees. Paul stopped being a Pharisee because he believed the messiah had arrived, but his view of the nature of the resurrection was unchanged.

14. But then as to the two other orders at first mentioned, the Pharisees are those who are esteemed most skillful in the exact explication of their laws, and introduce the first sect. These ascribe all to fate [or providence], and to God, and yet allow, that to act what is right, or the contrary, is principally in the power of men, although fate does co-operate in every action. They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, - but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment.​

- Josephus, Jewish War 2.8.14​

We also have Jesus' words, when he said the bodies of the resurrected are like angels, not men.

Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?​

25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.​

A wild guess is that spiritual bodies have no need for the organs that are used for reproduction or waste removal.

 

[Sethproton]

No passage teaches what you just asserted.




The same view. The Bible is consistent. It is your misunderstanding that is not.

As far as the old body being discarded, consider 1 Cor 15:52 where the Greek word translated changed, is used to mean to change clothes or change money. It is not a transformation, It is an exchange.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes. The empty tomb is also a clue which is in line with what will eventually happen to the entire universe that will be disposed of like an old garment and replaced with new. Heb 1:12. Since Jesus was the first born from the dead, He already experienced what believers will experience on resurrection day: a new body

I would imagine someone who was creamated might receive a new body..BUT...the "new body" Jesus got still has scars.
If you doubt that...ask Thomas.

 

[Sethproton]

That's not what the bible teaches.
The Tomb was empty.

It is true that the gospels say only that the tomb was empty, and leave it to the reader to understand why it was empty. Wenow from OT scripture that God was not going to allow His body to rot. If it had laid there for three days dead, it would have started rotting.

 

[Sethproton]

I would imagine someone who was creamated might receive a new body..BUT...the "new body" Jesus got still has scars.
If you doubt that...ask Thomas.

That is true that Jesus showed the scars in His hands to Thomas. But unite that with the truth that nobody recognized His face or voice upon first meeting. Have you given that any thought?

 

[Fred]

Yes, there are many verses to consider, one poster has already offered 2 Cor 5:1+2 and 1 Cor 15:35-42 which both speak of two bodies. And I already mentioned that no one recognized His face or voice
I won't throw a bunch of verses at you at once, but those three are clear to me that there are two bodies
Here is another idea to consider about the bodies Jesus appeared in post resurrection Mark 16:12 says that on His second appearnce He took another form. This speaks to the idea that what they saw post resurrection was not His spiritual body, but forms He adopted in order to be seen by men. And this is strengthened by 2 Cor 4:8 which states that spiritual things are unseen, so His spiritual body would not have been visible. Acts 10:40 God granted Him to become visible, which means otherwise, He would have been invisible.

There is more. But if you want to discuss each of these first, be glad to

I have ealready addressed 1 Corinthians 15 in post 7.
Mark 16:9-20 is too much of a disputed sction of Scripture to bse any doctrine on.

 

[CrowCross]

It is true that the gospels say only that the tomb was empty, and leave it to the reader to understand why it was empty. Wenow from OT scripture that God was not going to allow His body to rot. If it had laid there for three days dead, it would have started rotting.

The tomb was empty because the dead body of Christ Jesus came back to life...the Jesus left the tomb.

 

[CrowCross]

That is true that Jesus showed the scars in His hands to Thomas. But unite that with the truth that nobody recognized His face or voice upon first meeting. Have you given that any thought?

Yes. They wern't expecting Jesus...they were kept from recognizing Jesus. Many answers.

I wouldn't say "nobody" recognized him.