The resurrection of Jesus is fact

Bob1

Well-known member
Dude, what rational examination have you done on Christianity?

Do you even know the basic tenets of Christianity?

Jesus is my standard, and that of other Christians.
Why would I call myself a Christian if Jesus is not my standard. What would I GAIN from it?

It is very easy to discern if Jesus is the standard of any person that lays a claim to being Christian. You and I are both able to do it.... well I am.
It is not a Standard of Jesus to say, Jewish people are bad and must be killed.
Someone who thinks Jewish people are bad and should be killed, does not have Jesus as their standard. They are Liars.
Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?
I was raised Christian. I am very familiar with the religion. An honest assessment of the religion reveals it has just as much a bloodied past as any other religion. Theologically, Christians claim their deity is the same as the Jewish deity. Have you read the OT? That deity is pretty barbaric and violent.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
I said we have a standard.
Our standard is Jesus Christ.

It is an objective standard. You have no standard, therefore your morality is subjective.
Deal with it.
There is nothing to deal with. "Jesus Christ" is not an objective standard for morality. You have yet to show how your moral foundation is different from mine.

Perhaps you should deal with that :)
Read the New Testament teachings of Jesus Christ.
Not to difficult. His sermon on the Mount for example. Tell me how that involves opinion?
When Jesus says we should be kind to the meek that is opinion. Many Romans disagreed and thought the meek should be exploited - that was their opinion.

I personally love the sermon on the mount. But it is not objective and many have different opinions about it.
Where does Christ talk about marijuana?
What He does teach us as Christians is to rather be High on the Holy Spirit.
So what can you not understand objectively in that?
So how do you use your objective standard to figure out if marijuana is right or wrong? If you cannot then you do not have an objective moral standard that helps you decide - you use your own opinions and subjective morality.
And you HONESTLY think by forcing people to believe, they will actually believe.
As I said, you lack discernment. That causes you to write silly things like that.
OK.
That is your opinion
No. Morality is subjective. Morality is defined as our opinions on right and wrong. It is simply the nature of the word and the concept.

And you have yet to prove otherwise.
Read the sermon on the mount and come back to me with your subjective opinion. Lol
My subjective opinion is that the sermon on the mount is beautiful and inspiring.
Because He thought man was corrupt.... Lol
That is what The Bible says word for word. Did you just lol at God?

"God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth."
-- Genesis 6:9
He surely proved that He was a liar as well as being a monster.
You seem to think He was upright and moral when it came to his claims about Christianity.....
I think Hitler was Christian because he said he worshiped God, he made atheism illegal, and made his troops wear "God is with Us" on their uniforms. Its just a fact. I do not think that makes him better or worse.
 

sbell

Active member
I think Hitler was Christian because he said he worshiped God, he made atheism illegal, and made his troops wear "God is with Us" on their uniforms. Its just a fact. I do not think that makes him better or worse.
I agree with your line of arguing in most things, but I think this particular line of arguing weakens your case. I don't think Hitler was an atheist nor a Christian. I think he was a sociopath who used any means of manipulation and and coercion to gain power, but his deep convictions were not Christian. I think he distained Christians as weak, but being the leader of a western power, especially one so influenced by Luther, requires making some claims that aren't quite factual. I think his claims to Christianity were a political move more than a claim to his actual beliefs.

I think both the Christian and the atheist would do well to stop claiming Hitler in the others camp, because he was a sociopath and would kill both sides if necessary in his quest for power and control.

In fact, I would encourage all lovers of western values to join together to work against the forces that seek to lead us down the path of communism and socialism. Whatever the source of those western values, I think we can agree we ought to be fighting to preserve them.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
I agree with your line of arguing in most things, but I think this particular line of arguing weakens your case. I don't think Hitler was an atheist nor a Christian. I think he was a sociopath who used any means of manipulation and and coercion to gain power, but his deep convictions were not Christian. I think he distained Christians as weak, but being the leader of a western power, especially one so influenced by Luther, requires making some claims that aren't quite factual. I think his claims to Christianity were a political move more than a claim to his actual beliefs.

I think both the Christian and the atheist would do well to stop claiming Hitler in the others camp, because he was a sociopath and would kill both sides if necessary in his quest for power and control.
I agree. I never bring this up unless a Christian tries to paint Hitler as an atheist monster. I think he was juts a monster - his Christianity is irrelevant just as atheism is irrelevant to Stalin.

But Christians use it as a distraction and I like to batt it back over the net :)
In fact, I would encourage all lovers of western values to join together to work against the forces that seek to lead us down the path of communism and socialism. Whatever the source of those western values, I think we can agree we ought to be fighting to preserve them.
America is socialist now. We have Social Security, FEMA, Unemployment Insurance, VA benefits for our veterans, Medicare, Medicaid, and a host of socialist programs to help our citizens when they are down and out.

Socialism and communism are not the same thing.

Sorry - I had to batt that one back over the net too :)
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
How do you KNOW it is not meant for good, all powerful one?
Are you saying that it is good that children die of cancer?

Do please clarify your position here, as this looks to me to be a very risky argument for you to take, and I fully expect you to back down as soon as you are called on it.

If it is good for children to die of cancer then it would be wrong to give them medicine to try to cure them. Are you really saying we should just let children with cancer die?

<Yawn>
As I said, I am 100% certain you would NOT believe ANYTHING I said.
Why would you? That would mean you having to admit you were wrong... lol
That is why you keep making the same "dumb" statements without investigating for yourself.
We will never know, because you are clearly unable to say anything of substance.

If I thought for 1 second you were actually interested in truth, I would spend the time going through it with you. As it stands, I KNOW you have ZERO interest in what I say.
You have proven this by ignoring the times I have spoken to your question, and coming back with a lot of blather....
Just more and more excuses.

You are spending so much effort telling me why you are not prepared to spend any effort to explain your position!

Christian apologetics is so wonderful!

I do not think I could never be a Christian because I lack the ability to do the doublethink required. On the one hand you have to think God is perfectly good, and on the other you have to acknowledge kids die of cancer, and so you end up believing that it is good that kids die of cancer!

Then you spend hours telling people you do not have the time to explain.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
And you show you have comprehension issues.
I do not NEED you to MY homework.
Do your OWN homework.
My homework is supporting my claims. Your is supporting your.

I have done mine. Stop asking me to do yours.

You believe my homework is wrong, without knowing it is wrong, because you are too lazy or too scared to check for yourself.
You have yet to present it.

I am guessing that is because YOU think it is wrong. Perhaps you are afraid people will have a bad pinion of it.

That is because you insist others do your homework for you, and you cannot actually think farther than your nose....
ugh, ugh, ugh, God evil, ugh, ugh, ugh, Me smash God, ugh, ugh, ugh
No, I insist YOU do YOUR homework.

Or if you cannot, then you lose the argument.

It is as simple as that. You claim the existence of god is consistent with kids dying of cancer, but that is merely your unsubstantiated opinion until you do you homework. I am not about to do it because I think you are wrong.

You have given NO evidence.
You give a lot of opinion that you state as fact.
I call that being opinionated.
My evidence is the reasoning I posted earlier:
  • If Christianity is true, then there is an all-loving, all-powerful God
  • If there is an all-loving, all-powerful God then he would stop kids dying of cancer
  • Kids die of cancer
  • Therefore there is no such God
  • Therefor Christianity is wrong

Yes, based on your your own opinion.
Which is based on a reasoned argument.

You have no answer do you?
As to why you think God lets kids die of cancer? No, I have no clue.

Same as you, as far as i can tell.

You want me to give you an answer, so that you can give me your opinion about my answer.
This is how it works on a forum. Manfred. Are you not aware of that?

If you are too scared to answer for fear someone might give their opinion on it, you might want to think about whether coming to CARM is for you.

Here is one:
If God is love, why is there pain and suffering IN THIS world?
Because God does not exist! I said this last time.

I know the answer. You should try and find the answer for yourself.
Why should I do? I have an answer that fits perfectly. Why should I try and double guess your opinion?

If you have an answer that is valid, present it! On the other hand, if you know it is nonsense, and you are afraid to hear other people's opinions on it, best keep it secret, right?

Good question. Now try and find the answer for yourself by doing some study.
Your opinion about this is something like "God bad, suffering people, God no exist"
Wow, you really think making me sound stupid makes you look clever? I think maybe you need to grow up a bit, Manfred.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
I was raised Christian. I am very familiar with the religion. An honest assessment of the religion reveals it has just as much a bloodied past as any other religion. Theologically, Christians claim their deity is the same as the Jewish deity. Have you read the OT? That deity is pretty barbaric and violent.
Your opinion is noted
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Because God does not exist! I said this last time.
Manfred: Here is one:
If God is love, why is there pain and suffering IN THIS world?
And that is the extent of your mental ability. Lol

The Bible which you claim points to an evil God makes a claim that God is Love.

You have NO, Zero, Zilch interest in examining that.

All you are left with is ugh, ugh, "God evil, no God ugh, ugh ugh
Lol
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
And that is the extent of your mental ability. Lol
That is right. I do not possess the ability to believe contradictory things.

The Bible which you claim points to an evil God makes a claim that God is Love.
Excellent example. I could not believe both that "God is Love" and that God allows kids to die of cancer. As you say, that sort of cognitive dissonance is beyond me.

You have NO, Zero, Zilch interest in examining that.
You keep saying that, and yet here I am repeatedly asking you.

You are great on excuses for ducking the answer, but consistently fail to offer an answer yourself.

But I guess that is what you get with cognitive dissonance. On some level you know it does not make sense, so you have to come up with these excuses. The alternative is to expose your irrationality to scrutiny, and you are rightly afraid to do that.

All you are left with is ugh, ugh, "God evil, no God ugh, ugh ugh
Lol
You said that last time and it still looks sad and pathetic this time around. Why do you think resorting to insults makes Christianity look good? When you are reduced to this, you have lost the argument. You just refuse to admit it to yourself.

I posted ,y reasoning earlier:
  • If Christianity is true, then there is an all-loving, all-powerful God
  • If there is an all-loving, all-powerful God then he would stop kids dying of cancer
  • Kids die of cancer
  • Therefore there is no such God
  • Therefor Christianity is wrong
Why are you unable to address that? Because at the end of the day, Christianity still has no good answer to the problem of evil, even after 2000 years.

Christians still cannot give a good answer as to why an all-loving, all-powerful God does not stop kids dying of cancer.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
You are great on excuses for ducking the answer, but consistently fail to offer an answer yourself.
Which part of WHATEVER I say will not be believed can you NOT comprehend?

How do I know?
Because then you would have to admit I am right and you are wrong.
That will NEVER happen.

The net is full of information for why God is love. Read the arguments made and find out for yourself.... why? Because you will NEVER believe me.

These things are really not so difficult to understand if you were able to go beyond your pride.

I, do know God is Love. I did not NEED anyone to prove it to me Lol.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Which part of WHATEVER I say will not be believed can you NOT comprehend?

How do I know?
Because then you would have to admit I am right and you are wrong.
That will NEVER happen.

The net is full of information for why God is love. Read the arguments made and find out for yourself.... why? Because you will NEVER believe me.

These things are really not so difficult to understand if you were able to go beyond your pride.

I, do know God is Love. I did not NEED anyone to prove it to me Lol.
But you have an opportunity here that you are struggling with. You can explain God's love against the backdrop of innocent children born in sufferings or becoming ill with cancers and other sorrowful conditions for the entire family.

We are not looking for some independent treatise on why God's nature is one of love absent the above needed reconciliations. We know you don't require the knowledge that God is love in the face of these debilitating and painful conditions - you say you have it, but you cannot express this knowledge to us.

So do an evangelical duty and explain the nature of God's love towards us under the focus of the pain and suffering of innocent children with cancer, cleft lips, muscular dystrophy, down syndrome, etc.... that He can alleviate at His will.

That is the dichotomy we are looking to have explained even if we do end up believing that God is love.

Can you do it or not?
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
Which part of WHATEVER I say will not be believed can you NOT comprehend?
I agree. I very much doubt you have any kind of rational explanation, so the chances that I will believe are very slim.

There is no good explanation, so WHATEVER you say will not be believed.

How do I know?
Because then you would have to admit I am right and you are wrong.
That will NEVER happen.
Agreed. The usual excuses Christians trot out are so farcical, there is no way I would ever think that I am wrong, and that you are right.

The net is full of information for why God is love. Read the arguments made and find out for yourself.... why? Because you will NEVER believe me.
But where are web pages that say that God is Love and also give a rational explanation as to why he lets children die of cancer.

You seem to have missed that bit of it. Why is that? My guess is that you know as well as I do that there is no good explanation.

These things are really not so difficult to understand if you were able to go beyond your pride.
What has pride to do with it? The simple fact is that I can give an explanation as to who God lets children die of cancer and you cannot.

My explanation is God does not exist.

How many posts have you made avoiding answering this question? I went back and looked. In eleven posts - #186, #190, #201, #216, #220, #221, #227, #230, #232, #250 and #252 - you have chosen to make excuses for not giving an explanation, rather than state your case. Why is that? Pretty obviously because you either have no case or you know it is so poor it will get laughed at.

As you admitted at the start of the post, you know I will not believe your BS. You want to paint that as a failing on my part, but the truth is that the failing is with you and all Christianity. If you thought you had a good explanation, you would post it, and if the nasty atheist still does not believe you, that looks bad on him.

When you refuse to present your explanation, that looks like you are afraid the atheist will mock you with good reason, and you know that will reflect poorly on you.

Each time you refuse to explain why God allows children to die of cancer it reinforces the idea that you - and Christianity as a whole - have no good explanation.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
But you have an opportunity here that you are struggling with. You can explain God's love against the backdrop of innocent children born in sufferings or becoming ill with cancers and other sorrowful conditions for the entire family.
Of course I can.
Will anything I say change your mind?
We are not looking for some independent treatise on why God's nature is one of love absent the above needed reconciliations. We know you don't require the knowledge that God is love in the face of these debilitating and painful conditions - you say you have it, but you cannot express this knowledge to us.
Would you for one second be willing to believe me?
Lets see:
God is light, and in Him dwells no darkness.
The first attribute of God is love.
The ultimate thing God did for a rebellious human race, was to grant them salvation through His death and resurrection.
This is available to all. Kids with cancer, those who die in a tsunami, those who lost everything in a hurricane.
Your lifespan is approximately 90 years. That is but a gust in eternity.

God did not want relationship with automatons that were controlled and held safe by Him. That would be immoral. No freedom, but a slave to God. He does not desire slaves, even though you all acuse Him of that.

We live our 90 years in a fallen world, and an eternity having a relationship with a perfect God.

God, being God does deserve all glory. What you see as a god not preventing a tsunami or cancer is small minded indeed. God is SO much bigger than our little problems and quirks. The end of our wisdom is not even the beginning of God's wisdom, and you a mere man that was created by a creator think you can tell God what is what?

That is why you and the others here will never believe. You make self a GOD, thinking yourselves wise, you are nothing but foolish.

5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Let’s look at how the Bible describes love, and then we will see a few ways in which God is the essence of love. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails” (1 Corinthians 13:4-8a). This is God’s description of love, and because God is love (1 John 4:8), this is what He is like.

In love, God does not force Himself on anyone. Those who come to Him do so in response to His love. In love, God shows kindness to all. In love, Jesus went about doing good to everyone without partiality. In love, Jesus did not covet what others had, living a humble life without complaining. In love, Jesus did not brag about who He was in the flesh, although He could have overpowered anyone He ever came in contact with. In love, Jesus willingly obeyed His Father in heaven. “The world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me” (John 14:31). In love, Jesus was/is always looking out for the interests of others.

The greatest expression of God’s love is communicated to us in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Romans 5:8 proclaims the same message: “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” We can see from these verses that it is God’s greatest desire that we join Him in His eternal home, heaven. He has made the way possible by paying the price for our sins. He loves us because He chose to as an act of His will. Love forgives. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

So, what does it mean that God is love? Love is an attribute of God. Love is a core aspect of God’s character, His Person. God’s love is in no sense in conflict with His holiness, righteousness, justice, or even His wrath. All of God’s attributes are in perfect harmony. Everything God does is loving, just as everything He does is just and right. God is the perfect example of true love. Amazingly, God has given those who receive His Son Jesus as their personal Savior the ability to love as He does, through the power of the Holy Spirit (John 1:12; 1 John 3:1, 23-24).


 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
That is NOT what it says word for word. Lol

Go check your own quote and tell me where God "thought" about it.

He KNEW.

You show again that you are unable to discern anything. Lol
Okie dokie. I still have yet to see anything that proves the crucifixion besides the anonymous copies of the gospels created 300 years after the event.

So I'm going to remain skeptical ;)
 

5wize

Well-known member
Of course I can.
Will anything I say change your mind?

Would you for one second be willing to believe me?
Lets see:
God is light, and in Him dwells no darkness.
The first attribute of God is love.
The ultimate thing God did for a rebellious human race, was to grant them salvation through His death and resurrection.
This is available to all. Kids with cancer, those who die in a tsunami, those who lost everything in a hurricane.
Your lifespan is approximately 90 years. That is but a gust in eternity.

God did not want relationship with automatons that were controlled and held safe by Him. That would be immoral. No freedom, but a slave to God. He does not desire slaves, even though you all acuse Him of that.

We live our 90 years in a fallen world, and an eternity having a relationship with a perfect God.

God, being God does deserve all glory. What you see as a god not preventing a tsunami or cancer is small minded indeed. God is SO much bigger than our little problems and quirks. The end of our wisdom is not even the beginning of God's wisdom, and you a mere man that was created by a creator think you can tell God what is what?

That is why you and the others here will never believe. You make self a GOD, thinking yourselves wise, you are nothing but foolish.

5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Let’s look at how the Bible describes love, and then we will see a few ways in which God is the essence of love. “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails” (1 Corinthians 13:4-8a). This is God’s description of love, and because God is love (1 John 4:8), this is what He is like.

In love, God does not force Himself on anyone. Those who come to Him do so in response to His love. In love, God shows kindness to all. In love, Jesus went about doing good to everyone without partiality. In love, Jesus did not covet what others had, living a humble life without complaining. In love, Jesus did not brag about who He was in the flesh, although He could have overpowered anyone He ever came in contact with. In love, Jesus willingly obeyed His Father in heaven. “The world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me” (John 14:31). In love, Jesus was/is always looking out for the interests of others.

The greatest expression of God’s love is communicated to us in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Romans 5:8 proclaims the same message: “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” We can see from these verses that it is God’s greatest desire that we join Him in His eternal home, heaven. He has made the way possible by paying the price for our sins. He loves us because He chose to as an act of His will. Love forgives. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

So, what does it mean that God is love? Love is an attribute of God. Love is a core aspect of God’s character, His Person. God’s love is in no sense in conflict with His holiness, righteousness, justice, or even His wrath. All of God’s attributes are in perfect harmony. Everything God does is loving, just as everything He does is just and right. God is the perfect example of true love. Amazingly, God has given those who receive His Son Jesus as their personal Savior the ability to love as He does, through the power of the Holy Spirit (John 1:12; 1 John 3:1, 23-24).


Doesn't seem you can. We didn't ask for a treatise on God's general love. The above is a non-sequitur to the question of the meaning and usefulness of gratuitous disease afflicting the innocent child and how not assisting with that when He is capable relates to the glory of God and the expression of His love for us.

Disease afflicting the innocent and how that relates to God's love for His creation has no bearing on whether God would create automatons with such relief, whether we are our own self gods, how salvation from sin works, how long we live juxtaposed to eternity...

None of that has any bearing on disease as every one of those things you brought up can be realized in a world where disease is not a random and seemingly undeserved attribute of life for the innocent child.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Doesn't seem you can. We didn't ask for a treatise on God's general love. The above is a non-sequitur to the question of the meaning and usefulness of gratuitous disease afflicting the innocent child and how not assisting with that when He is capable relates to the glory of God and the expression of His love for us.

Disease afflicting the innocent and how that relates to God's love for His creation has no bearing on whether God would create automatons with such relief, whether we are our own self gods, how salvation from sin works, how long we live juxtaposed to eternity...

None of that has any bearing on disease as every one of those things you brought up can be realized in a world where disease is not a random and seemingly undeserved attribute of life for the innocent child.
Isn't it amazing? Not one Christian has said, "God loves humanity when he crushes Christians with churches because...."

They cannot make sense of this. And rather then deal with it they just spiral off into apologetic and eschatological looney tunes.

My OP stands. Christians need to believe God is love. And no silly facts are going to get in the way.

I love you so much that I am going to crush you with stone! And if you did not love me enough you are going to burn! Out of love!

It really is a very strange religion.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Doesn't seem you can. We didn't ask for a treatise on God's general love. The above is a non-sequitur to the question of the meaning and usefulness of gratuitous disease afflicting the innocent child and how not assisting with that when He is capable relates to the glory of God and the expression of His love for us.

Disease afflicting the innocent and how that relates to God's love for His creation has no bearing on whether God would create automatons with such relief, whether we are our own self gods, how salvation from sin works, how long we live juxtaposed to eternity...

None of that has any bearing on disease as every one of those things you brought up can be realized in a world where disease is not a random and seemingly undeserved attribute of life for the innocent child.
Thank you for confirming what I said.

You have no interest in responding to anything I wrote.

You want me to post on the moral argument.
Why not be honest and challenge what I wrote.
I did address why God allows sickness. You just have no answer so you generalize.

Typical
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
Although this is not addressed to me, I see it is trying to address the same issue - why does an all-powerful, all-loving God allow kids to die of cancer?
Would you for one second be willing to believe me?
Lets see:
God is light, and in Him dwells no darkness.
The first attribute of God is love.
The ultimate thing God did for a rebellious human race, was to grant them salvation through His death and resurrection.
This is available to all. Kids with cancer, those who die in a tsunami, those who lost everything in a hurricane.
Your lifespan is approximately 90 years. That is but a gust in eternity.
Okay, so far so good. We have a God who wants to save us from, well, something. Might have been useful to say what, but I am going o say sin.

So God created us, and we have a sinful nature. I mean, every single one of us is so full of sin that we all need saving, we all deserve to get tortured in hell. The implication here is that God messed up when he created us. Or set the bar to high.

Seriously, if you have a school where every child fails everything, the fault lies in the school, not the kids.

God did not want relationship with automatons that were controlled and held safe by Him. That would be immoral. No freedom, but a slave to God. He does not desire slaves, even though you all acuse Him of that.
Four issues here...

1. I am dubious you can call an automaton a slave. I think the point about slaves is that they do have free will, but cannot exercise it. Does anyone think it immoral to have a computer? Does anyone regard their computer as a slave? How is a computer different to an automaton?

2. What is it like in heaven? Are people free to sin? Or are they automata? Or could there be a third option?

3. Also, Lev 25 makes it clear God has no problem with slavery.

4. And that brings to what is moral anyway. If God really is the source of morality as Christians usually claim then if God kept automata it would - by definition - be moral.

God, being God does deserve all glory. What you see as a god not preventing a tsunami or cancer is small minded indeed. God is SO much bigger than our little problems and quirks. The end of our wisdom is not even the beginning of God's wisdom, and you a mere man that was created by a creator think you can tell God what is what?
That is a great argument.

But incompatible with the claim that God loves us.

Either you can say: We are like ants or even germs to him, and what does he care about our petty lives? Or you can say: He is a personal God who loves each and every one of us individually. You do not get to flip between two disparate concepts of God as is convenient. That just proves our point that Christianity does not make sense.

That is why you and the others here will never believe. You make self a GOD, thinking yourselves wise, you are nothing but foolish.
The reason we will not believe is that that excuses Christians trot out make no sense.

The Bible in that verse you quote is implicitly acknowledging that people have been saying it makes no sense for the best part of 2000 years. Christians have been using the same arguments all that time. Not reasoning, but with insults.

Let’s look at how the Bible describes love, and then we will see a few ways in which God is the essence of love. ...
We all know that Christians claim that God is Love. The issue here is how that is compatible with God letting children die of cancer.

The best you have is "God is SO much bigger than our little problems and quirks." which is the very opposite of your claims about God loving us. How do you not see the contradiction here?

This web page does at least purport to address the issue. Quotes from that page.

"Some Christians have responded by turning the skeptic’s argument on its head. They do this by asking on what basis is something deemed evil?"

The quick answer is the Christian basis. If something is evil according to Christianity, and the Christian God does it, then Christianity is shown to be wrong. It does not matter what my definition of evil is or what my moral standard is. With regards to God letting kids die of cancer, this is directly contrary to the moral standard Jesus set in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Whether I think we have a responsibility to help those who are suffering or not, the Bible is clear that we do. And God fails in that responsibility.

"Again, this ties into the broad Christian explanation of the human predicament. Paradise has been lost due to human moral shortcomings. As a result, we live in a fallen world, east of Eden."

So God lets children die of cancer because Adam disobeyed him that one time? Is that reasonable?

You said earlier "God is SO much bigger than our little problems and quirks." Here the rationalisation is the other extreme - he is so angry at what one guy did six thousand years ago that he is still sulking and refuses to lift a finger to help the millions of kids dying of cancer.

I find it fascinating how the concept of God so readily morphs into anything you want to support an argument.

"God knows best and, as such, He knows that our world is the best way to the best possible world."

The best possible world is one where kids die of cancer? Are they really saying that?

Imagine a ten year old girl in hospital, dying of cancer. Are Christians really saying that that is a better world than where she has no cancer, and is outside playing with her friends?
 
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