The Resurrection

xyzcindy

New Member
I meet with a JW lady on the phone each week. She told me that when a person dies, if they are really bad, that they go straight to Gehenna without being resurrected and judged. I don't think she's right. I would like to show her what the Bible really teaches. Do you know of any verses we can use for this topic?

Thanks.
 

Dant01

Active member
.
I meet with a JW lady on the phone each week. She told me that when a person
dies, if they are really bad, that they go straight to Gehenna without being
resurrected and judged.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not supposed to believe in conscious existence after death.
In other words: Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that normal human existence is
entirely physical; viz: when people pass away; the conscious element of their
existence goes nowhere because it's gone.

This means, of course, that in order for the dead to face justice at the great white
throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15, God will have to create their consciousness
back into existence from details about them stored in His memory.

Also, the JW concept of gehenna is not the same as the regular concept. Their
gehenna is not for perpetual pain and suffering. It's only an incinerator where the
lost will lose their lives yet once again, and then consigned to a condition of
permanent non existence.


NOTE: If you have access to YouTube, I highly recommend that you watch a
number of video presentations related to JW beliefs and practices before getting
into any more discussions with them; and do not watch their videos; instead, watch
videos compiled by critical thinkers who know the Bible and have analyzed the JW
religion inside and out.
_
 
Last edited:

xyzcindy

New Member
.


Jehovah's Witnesses are not supposed to believe in conscious existence after death.
In other words: Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that normal human existence is
entirely physical; viz: when people pass away; the conscious element of their
existence goes nowhere because it's gone.

This means, of course, that in order for the dead to face justice at the great white
throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15, God will have to create their consciousness
back into existence from details about them stored in His memory.

Also, the JW concept of gehenna is not the same as the regular concept. Their
gehenna is not for perpetual pain and suffering. It's only an incinerator where the
lost will lose their lives yet once again, and then consigned to a condition of
permanent non existence.


NOTE: If you have access to YouTube, I highly recommend that you watch a
number of video presentations related to JW beliefs and practices before getting
into any more discussions with them; and do not watch their videos; instead, watch
videos compiled by critical thinkers who know the Bible and have analyzed the JW
religion inside and out.
_
I'm definitely watching all the videos I can about dealing with JWs.
 

xyzcindy

New Member
.


Jehovah's Witnesses are not supposed to believe in conscious existence after death.
In other words: Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that normal human existence is
entirely physical; viz: when people pass away; the conscious element of their
existence goes nowhere because it's gone.

This means, of course, that in order for the dead to face justice at the great white
throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15, God will have to create their consciousness
back into existence from details about them stored in His memory.

Also, the JW concept of gehenna is not the same as the regular concept. Their
gehenna is not for perpetual pain and suffering. It's only an incinerator where the
lost will lose their lives yet once again, and then consigned to a condition of
permanent non existence.


NOTE: If you have access to YouTube, I highly recommend that you watch a
number of video presentations related to JW beliefs and practices before getting
into any more discussions with them; and do not watch their videos; instead, watch
videos compiled by critical thinkers who know the Bible and have analyzed the JW
religion inside and out.
_
Thanks for the advice. In fact, I have been studying with witnesses on and off for about 25 years because my friend is a JW. I watch Pastor Mike Winger's videos and have watched his sermon on JW beliefs. I watch Susan Gaskin's videos and was really enlightened by Jason Brady's video on JW mind control. I'm never going to become a JW.

I study with my JW on the phone for one hour once a week, and we may exchange emails or documents. I would like to think that one of my services to the Lord is studying with JWs. Besides my JW friend, I've had many studies throughout the years with a variety of different people. My goal is to open their eyes to the true gospel.

I find that it is difficult to have a "Bible" study with my current lady or any JW for that matter. JWs want to have a "watchtower" study. The average JW doesn't truly know what they believe. For example, in my current study, we came across a verse that was clear to me where it says that everyone will be resurrected (John 5:28,29). It was clear to me, but the verse contradicts JW beliefs. They believe that only "some" people will be resurrected. She didn't know what she believed about the verse, she had to look the verse up in the JW index to see what she believed about it.
 

imJRR

Active member
I'm sure she did have to look it up. She is a programmed person who cannot and does not either study the Bible for herself or think for herself - It is literally not allowed. I make reference to this in my thread here on "JW masters", using their own writings.
 

Dant01

Active member
.
She didn't know what she believed about the verse, she had to look the verse up in
the JW index to see what she believed about it.


That is so reminiscent of George Orwell's novel "1984" about a totalitarian society
wherein truth is dictated by a central authority called The Party.

In other words; if The Party says that 2 plus 2 equals 5, then everybody has to
believe that 2 plus 2 equals 5 regardless of any and all empirical evidence to the
contrary. Anyone daring to disagree with The Party's arithmetic is designated an
enemy of the state, i.e. a criminal, viz: in a totalitarian social structure, dissent is
against the law.
_
 

jamesh

Active member
I meet with a JW lady on the phone each week. She told me that when a person dies, if they are really bad, that they go straight to Gehenna without being resurrected and judged. I don't think she's right. I would like to show her what the Bible really teaches. Do you know of any verses we can use for this topic?

Thanks.
You might want to quote here Hebrews 9:27, "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment." And since she mentioned "Gehenna" you might want her to read the following about Gehenna.


Now, Jw's teach that when you die you are no longer exists, this is not true according to the Bible. Even she mentioned Gehenna. Moreover, Jesus spoke a lot about "hell" and even gave an example of the rich man and Lazarus. Also have her read Daniel 12:2 and Psalm 6:5. It does not make sense that if a person who does not know Jesus Christ personally and dies that they will simply not exists.

If this we true then there would be no need to be judge for being good? Btw, as a side note Hebrews 9:27 also eliminates the idea of reincarnation. After you die you will be judged, not return as your favorite animal or anything else you can think of.

IN GOD THE SON,
jamesh
 

xyzcindy

New Member
My JW lady told me that there are some people that are so bad that they skip resurrection and judgment, and go to complete destruction. I don't know anything about not existing anymore at death. She'll probably bring that up at one of our future studies. Anyway, I asked her why the following verses say that "everyone" or "all" will be resurrected and judged. (I forgot about Heb 9:27, thanks for the reminder.)

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

John 5:28,29 ...a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

She doesn't have an answer for this and has tried to change the subject. However, that will be one of my questions at this week's study.

My JW lady is very kind and is doing her best to please Jehovah. We have been studying for almost a year now, and she will even use a non-JW bible once in a while. She is doing a lot of research into my questions. She uses Bible Gateway, which I think is great. For every answer she gives me, I have more questions. Whenever she says something that doesn't go along with scripture, I ask for a Bible verse. I hope that our studies will one day open her eyes to what the Bible really teaches. May the Lord's will be done and His blessing be upon her and her family.

Love in the Lord
 

jamesh

Active member
My JW lady told me that there are some people that are so bad that they skip resurrection and judgment, and go to complete destruction. I don't know anything about not existing anymore at death. She'll probably bring that up at one of our future studies. Anyway, I asked her why the following verses say that "everyone" or "all" will be resurrected and judged. (I forgot about Heb 9:27, thanks for the reminder.)

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

John 5:28,29 ...a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

She doesn't have an answer for this and has tried to change the subject. However, that will be one of my questions at this week's study.

My JW lady is very kind and is doing her best to please Jehovah. We have been studying for almost a year now, and she will even use a non-JW bible once in a while. She is doing a lot of research into my questions. She uses Bible Gateway, which I think is great. For every answer she gives me, I have more questions. Whenever she says something that doesn't go along with scripture, I ask for a Bible verse. I hope that our studies will one day open her eyes to what the Bible really teaches. May the Lord's will be done and His blessing be upon her and her family.

Love in the Lord
You might want to throw her a "curve" so to speak. What do I mean? Please read the following from the Jw.org site here: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/when-you-die/

They teach you just don't exist anymore and use Psalm 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 to prove their position. But, that is not what the verses are teaching. When it says Mans thoughts perish it means his purposes, his plans and what he does during his daily life are no more. The same idea is expressed at Ecclesiastes 9:5-6. Just read some commentaries about it.

The point is that when your die, you do return to the dust of the earth but that does not mean your non existent. Remember your going to be judged for the good and the bad. Why? I mean if your going to be judged and if your bad you simply don't exist what purpose does the judgment serve?

On a personal note, about 40 year ago or so a friend of mine and I use to stand in front of the Donut stores, or markets right next to the Jw's and pass out opposing literature. One day a lady who we got to know did not return to the Kingdom Hall usually about 10:00am and stayed and wanted to talk to me.

She had been a JW for over 25 years and she had questions because she heard what we had said. We ended up meeting privately and the Lord delivered her. She left the Jw organization and I told her she would be "shunned." She knew that but didn't care. She ask me what church she should go to and I recommended a Calvary Chapel.

She eventually led her husband and her whole family out of the Jw cult. She was a lot older than us and we use to have dinner with them after Church on Sunday's. She has since died, but I've learned to not ever give up. And even if you don't see results, you keep proclaiming the gospel. Remember this, your "CALLING" is other people.

IN GOD THE SON,
jamesh
 

xyzcindy

New Member
You might want to throw her a "curve" so to speak. What do I mean? Please read the following from the Jw.org site here: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/when-you-die/

They teach you just don't exist anymore and use Psalm 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 to prove their position. But, that is not what the verses are teaching. When it says Mans thoughts perish it means his purposes, his plans and what he does during his daily life are no more. The same idea is expressed at Ecclesiastes 9:5-6. Just read some commentaries about it.

The point is that when your die, you do return to the dust of the earth but that does not mean your non existent. Remember your going to be judged for the good and the bad. Why? I mean if your going to be judged and if your bad you simply don't exist what purpose does the judgment serve?

On a personal note, about 40 year ago or so a friend of mine and I use to stand in front of the Donut stores, or markets right next to the Jw's and pass out opposing literature. One day a lady who we got to know did not return to the Kingdom Hall usually about 10:00am and stayed and wanted to talk to me.

She had been a JW for over 25 years and she had questions because she heard what we had said. We ended up meeting privately and the Lord delivered her. She left the Jw organization and I told her she would be "shunned." She knew that but didn't care. She ask me what church she should go to and I recommended a Calvary Chapel.

She eventually led her husband and her whole family out of the Jw cult. She was a lot older than us and we use to have dinner with them after Church on Sunday's. She has since died, but I've learned to not ever give up. And even if you don't see results, you keep proclaiming the gospel. Remember this, your "CALLING" is other people.

IN GOD THE SON,
jamesh
You said it - I will keep proclaiming the gospel.

Today's study started where it left off last week. My JW lady was supposed to show me where in the Bible it says that only some people will be resurrected and judged. She couldn't find any verses that backed up her belief, and she kept trying to change the subject. I know she was getting frustrated with me, but I told her plainly that if her belief contradicts the Bible then it can't be true. She said that it's not any one verse that says these things, but the overall verses in total. I invited her to give me the "overall" verses. She took me to Dan 12:2.

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

I pointed out that this verse does not say that some people will not have to face resurrection and judgment. I don't want to frustrate her too much, so when she suggested we move onto another topic for next week, I agreed. My JW friend learned that the Bible says "all" people will be resurrected and judged. I gave her 4 verses that talk about the resurrection and judgment. I don't know if she's ever read them before the topic came up in our study. I think the next topic she wants to teach me is the 1000-year reign. I'll have to look up what they believe.

In an upcoming study, I'm going to suggest that we look deeply into who Jesus really was, and why it's so important to Christians that He be part of a Trinity. Just to be clear myself, the Trinity is like a boat. The boat's name is God. Inside the boat are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - they are all a part of God. Is that correct?

Anyway, I thank the Lord for bringing me this wonderful JW who is doing her best to teach me about God. It is better that the JWs come to my door instead of going to the door of someone who doesn't look up scriptures! :)

Blessings.
 

jamesh

Active member
You said it - I will keep proclaiming the gospel.

Today's study started where it left off last week. My JW lady was supposed to show me where in the Bible it says that only some people will be resurrected and judged. She couldn't find any verses that backed up her belief, and she kept trying to change the subject. I know she was getting frustrated with me, but I told her plainly that if her belief contradicts the Bible then it can't be true. She said that it's not any one verse that says these things, but the overall verses in total. I invited her to give me the "overall" verses. She took me to Dan 12:2.

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

I pointed out that this verse does not say that some people will not have to face resurrection and judgment. I don't want to frustrate her too much, so when she suggested we move onto another topic for next week, I agreed. My JW friend learned that the Bible says "all" people will be resurrected and judged. I gave her 4 verses that talk about the resurrection and judgment. I don't know if she's ever read them before the topic came up in our study. I think the next topic she wants to teach me is the 1000-year reign. I'll have to look up what they believe.

In an upcoming study, I'm going to suggest that we look deeply into who Jesus really was, and why it's so important to Christians that He be part of a Trinity. Just to be clear myself, the Trinity is like a boat. The boat's name is God. Inside the boat are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - they are all a part of God. Is that correct?

Anyway, I thank the Lord for bringing me this wonderful JW who is doing her best to teach me about God. It is better that the JWs come to my door instead of going to the door of someone who doesn't look up scriptures! :)

Blessings.
If I were you, don't even mention the Trinity. It's like talking about the "plague" to a Jw. It changes the subject to where they are in control and they will not let go. Also, it's been my experience in dealing with the Jw's well over 58 years or so that even if they bring it up you have to focus on what you said, "Keep it on who is Jesus Christ."

If they say to you, "Do you believe in the trinity I say the trinity has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I want to know "Who is Jesus Christ to you?" Ask them, "why was Jesus accused of blasphemy at John 5:18, John 8:58, John 10:30-38, and especially at Matthew 26, (the trial record) at verses 63-65. Why does the high priest ask Jesus to swear as to His identity at Matthew 26:63?

Since you believe Jesus is a created being why do the Jews ask Him to swear that He is the Son of God? After all, the Jews themselves claim to be the sons of God as well? In short, keep away from the Trinity.

IN GOD THE SON,
jamesh
 

Nathan P

Member
Thanks for the advice. In fact, I have been studying with witnesses on and off for about 25 years because my friend is a JW. I watch Pastor Mike Winger's videos and have watched his sermon on JW beliefs. I watch Susan Gaskin's videos and was really enlightened by Jason Brady's video on JW mind control. I'm never going to become a JW.

I study with my JW on the phone for one hour once a week, and we may exchange emails or documents. I would like to think that one of my services to the Lord is studying with JWs. Besides my JW friend, I've had many studies throughout the years with a variety of different people. My goal is to open their eyes to the true gospel.

I find that it is difficult to have a "Bible" study with my current lady or any JW for that matter. JWs want to have a "watchtower" study. The average JW doesn't truly know what they believe. For example, in my current study, we came across a verse that was clear to me where it says that everyone will be resurrected (John 5:28,29). It was clear to me, but the verse contradicts JW beliefs. They believe that only "some" people will be resurrected. She didn't know what she believed about the verse, she had to look the verse up in the JW index to see what she believed about it.
I meet with a JW lady on the phone each week. She told me that when a person dies, if they are really bad, that they go straight to Gehenna without being resurrected and judged. I don't think she's right. I would like to show her what the Bible really teaches. Do you know of any verses we can use for this topic?

Thanks.
It does say in that vs that after death they know nothing at all or something like that correct?
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
I meet with a JW lady on the phone each week. She told me that when a person dies, if they are really bad, that they go straight to Gehenna without being resurrected and judged. I don't think she's right. I would like to show her what the Bible really teaches. Do you know of any verses we can use for this topic?

Thanks.
Moses and Elijah spoke to Jesus, were not soul sleeping!
 
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