The Salvation of Cornelius an Example in Truth

JDS

Active member
Recently I posted a thread showing that God does not save anyone without the human element. I proved that was true from the scriptures. This is 180 degrees opposite than the Calvinists teaching about salvation. The conversion of Cornelius, the first gentile to be saved in the history of the world, refutes a number of the errors of Reformed doctrines. Here is a man who is not saved, does not hate God while he is in his natural state, a man who seeks God, and a man whom God himself told him there was something that he ought to do to be saved. Calvinists will deny everything about this conversion experience and the opening up of the door of faith to gentiles through Cornelius because they do not believe the words of scripture.

First of all, I will prove to all, who will believe the words, that Cornelius was not saved until Acts 10:44. This means that all that transpired between God, the angel whom God sent to him, and Cornelius in verses 1 through 43 took place while Cornelius was unsaved.

I will quote some verses that will prove without a doubt that Peter and those with him thought Cornelius got saved in Acts 10:44.

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God. 32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee. 33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
_________________________________________________________

A few days later Paul is called to Jerusalem to give account of why he went to gentiles. Here is what he said about Acts 10:44.

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Time out a minute. If Cornelius and his household were already saved before this, Like I have been told by many Calvinists, then someone is lying here. Why would God send a preacher to a man to get him saved who was already saved? Why would Peter report something that was not true?

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.


16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Now you have salvation defined
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is what it takes to be saved according to Peter, because when a man believes on the Lord Jesus Christ God gives him the gift of the Holy Spirit to indwell him. This is what Peter told Cornelius he ought to do. And Cornelius did it.

The baptism was the pouring out of the gift of the Spirit in such abundance on the gentiles that all may drink him in by faith in Christ and be saved. This is a beginning for gentiles and it is referred to in passages like this.

2 Thess 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel (the Jewish gospel), to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What I have bolded in V 13 is exactly what Peter preached to Cornelius in the beginning of gentile salvation.

I am calling on Calvinists to prayerfully consider this salvation story and to believe the words. (even if you must adjust your theology to do so)
 
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Sketo

Well-known member
A few days later Paul is called to Jerusalem to give account of why he went to gentiles. Here is what he said about Acts 10:44.

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Time out a minute. If Cornelius and his household were already saved before this, Like I have been told by many Calvinists, then someone is lying here. Why would God send a preacher to a man to get him saved who was already saved? Why would Peter report something that was not true?
When does “shall be saved” happen?

and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end shall be saved. - Matthew 10:22

Time out a minute. When is the one who endures to the end actuallysaved”?
Before or After “the end”?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. - Romans 1:16

Is the “Gospel” the “power of God”, for “believers”, to “endure to the end” to “be saved”?

But the one who endures to the end shall be saved. - Matthew 24:13

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. - Mark 13:13


Peter is called to tell Cornelius the “word” of the Gospel! The Gospel is the power for Cornelius, under the criteria of the New Covenant, to “endure to the end” and “be saved”! The old covenant criteria was obsolete!


Cornelius is no different then any other “God fearer” in the Old Testament. The only unique thing about him is the timing of God as he is making the old covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13). The new covenant includes all nations, not just Israel (Acts 10:15), which means Cornelius can no longer be saved under the old covenant criteria. He must meet the conditions of the new covenant... faith in the Crucified Christ! Under the old covenant he would have been considered saved but sense the old covenant is obsolete, according to Heb 8:13, he must now meet the criteria of the new covenant, namely belief in the resurrected Christ, hence Acts 11:14.
 
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zerinus

Well-known member
When does “shall be saved” happen?

and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end shall be saved. - Matthew 10:22

Time out a minute. When is the one who endures to the end actuallysaved”?
Before or After “the end”?
After the “end,” obviously. Agreed. But the question that now arises is, what is the “end?” And “end” of what? And when does it occur? That is the question that you need to answer, which you haven't.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. - Romans 1:16

Is the “Gospel” the “power of God”, for “believers”, to “endure to the end” to “be saved”?
You are now twisting it a little bit. The “power of God for salvation” does not translate into “power to irresistibly endure to the end”. It means the “power of God for salvation” if you endure to the end, or provided that you endure to the end—which brings us back to the original question: what does it mean to “endure to the end?”
But the one who endures to the end shall be saved. - Matthew 24:13

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. - Mark 13:13


Peter is called to tell Cornelius the “word” of the Gospel! The Gospel is the power for Cornelius, under the criteria of the New Covenant, to “endure to the end” and “be saved”! The old covenant criteria was obsolete!
See above. Is the gospel the irresistible power to endure to the end? It doesn't say that.
Cornelius is no different then any other “God fearer” in the Old Testament. The only unique thing about him is the timing of God as he is making the old covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13). The new covenant includes all nations, not just Israel (Acts 10:15), which means Cornelius can no longer be saved under the old covenant criteria. He must meet the conditions of the new covenant... faith in the Crucified Christ! Under the old covenant he would have been considered saved ...
That is not correct either. Under the old covenant, he would have had to be circumcised to be saved!
... but sense the old covenant is obsolete, according to Heb 8:13, he must now meet the criteria of the new covenant, namely belief in the resurrected Christ, hence Acts 11:14.
The correctness of all your theological analysis hinges on what it means to “endure to the end”. If you don't get that bit right, you don't get any of it right. To “endure to the end” means to remain true to the gospel to the end of one's life, in spite of all the temptations, pressures, or persecution that might arise. “Instant salvation” is a figment of the Evangelical imagination. Nobody is “saved” until they have “endured to the end,” and entered the kingdom of God in heaven. Any time before that the option is available to them to apostatize, deny God, and be damned. Matthew 7 explains how that could happen. Let us suppose that Cornelius had died in an accident just before he met Peter, and had the gospel preached to him. Would he have still been saved? Of course he would have. God knew what was in his heart, and his desires were right, therefore he would have been saved. Now let us consider a completely different scenario. Let us suppose that after Cornelius had met Peter, had the gospel preached to him, been converted, received the Holy Ghost etc., then six years down the line had apostatized, turned against God, and sinned. Would he have still been saved? Of course not. Matthew 7 explains how that could happen. “Instant salvation” and “once saved, always saved” are heretical doctrines, and “faith alone” is the doctrine of the devil. The gospel of Jesus Christ is all about doing, not just hearing or believing only. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matt. 7:21) “But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.” (James 1:22)
 
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JDS

Active member
When does “shall be saved” happen?

and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end shall be saved. - Matthew 10:22

Time out a minute. When is the one who endures to the end actuallysaved”?
Before or After “the end”?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. - Romans 1:16

Is the “Gospel” the “power of God”, for “believers”, to “endure to the end” to “be saved”?

But the one who endures to the end shall be saved. - Matthew 24:13

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. - Mark 13:13


Peter is called to tell Cornelius the “word” of the Gospel! The Gospel is the power for Cornelius, under the criteria of the New Covenant, to “endure to the end” and “be saved”! The old covenant criteria was obsolete!


Cornelius is no different then any other “God fearer” in the Old Testament. The only unique thing about him is the timing of God as he is making the old covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13). The new covenant includes all nations, not just Israel (Acts 10:15), which means Cornelius can no longer be saved under the old covenant criteria. He must meet the conditions of the new covenant... faith in the Crucified Christ! Under the old covenant he would have been considered saved but sense the old covenant is obsolete, according to Heb 8:13, he must now meet the criteria of the new covenant, namely belief in the resurrected Christ, hence Acts 11:14.
Apparently you do not know what being saved means. Certainly you do not believe the words of this text I referenced, Acts 10:1 through Acts 11:15. Luke wrote this report and what he reported was that an Italian, a gentile, an unsaved gentile, because all gentiles were unsaved, a lover of the Jewish people and a lover of the God of the Hebrews and a man who prayed to God always, was visited by probably the Lord Jesus himself, but called the angel of the Lord in this text, to tell him how to be saved. This whole narrative is about this single thing. There had to be a man involved to preach the gospel to him because God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe, he says. It had to be Peter, because Jesus Christ had said this to him in Matt 16. Read it here with me.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Peter opened the door to the kingdom in Acts 2 to the Jews and in Acts 10, he opened the door of faith to the gentiles.

Much later, after Paul had preached a whole missionary tour, of which Luke was involved, he referred back to this transition of God in these words.

Acts 14:26 And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled.
27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.


Following is a message of Christ to a gentile church.

Revelation 3:8
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

The door is a person. It is the person of Jesus Christ himself. This is the only way to God and forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

Jn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Eternal life is a person, the person of the Holy Spirit, who is given to men as a gift to be received by faith. To possess the Spirit of Christ is to be saved eternally because he will never leave us or forsake us and he is received the moment a sinner believes in thefinished work of Jesus Christ on our behalf.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit (in the body) is life because of righteousness.

The life is eternal because the Spirit is eternal.

So, what is being saved from our sins? Receiving the gift of God, the Holy Ghost, who is life, through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ ,who died for us, paying our penalty, and rising from the dead to live forever.

There is nothing that condemn us to death when we have eternal life.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Believe the words.


.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Apparently you do not know what being saved means. Certainly you do not believe the words of this text I referenced, Acts 10:1 through Acts 11:15. Luke wrote this report and what he reported was that an Italian, a gentile, an unsaved gentile, because all gentiles were unsaved, a lover of the Jewish people and a lover of the God of the Hebrews and a man who prayed to God always, was visited by probably the Lord Jesus himself, but called the angel of the Lord in this text, to tell him how to be saved. This whole narrative is about this single thing. There had to be a man involved to preach the gospel to him because God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe, he says. It had to be Peter, because Jesus Christ had said this to him in Matt 16. Read it here with me.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Peter opened the door to the kingdom in Acts 2 to the Jews and in Acts 10, he opened the door of faith to the gentiles.

Much later, after Paul had preached a whole missionary tour, of which Luke was involved, he referred back to this transition of God in these words.

Acts 14:26 And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled.
27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.


Following is a message of Christ to a gentile church.

Revelation 3:8
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

The door is a person. It is the person of Jesus Christ himself. This is the only way to God and forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

Jn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Eternal life is a person, the person of the Holy Spirit, who is given to men as a gift to be received by faith. To possess the Spirit of Christ is to be saved eternally because he will never leave us or forsake us and he is received the moment a sinner believes in thefinished work of Jesus Christ on our behalf.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit (in the body) is life because of righteousness.

The life is eternal because the Spirit is eternal.

So, what is being saved from our sins? Receiving the gift of God, the Holy Ghost, who is life, through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ ,who died for us, paying our penalty, and rising from the dead to live forever.

There is nothing that condemn us to death when we have eternal life.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Believe the words.


.

Yep... and if, by the Spirit, Cornelius “endures to the end” in the “word” that Peter “told” them... Cornelius “shall be saved” just as the verse says!

When does “shall be saved” happen?

and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end shall be saved. - Matthew 10:22

Time out a minute. When is the one who endures to the end actuallysaved”?
Before or After “the end”?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. - Romans 1:16

Is the “Gospel” the “power of God”, for “believers”, to “endure to the end” to “be saved”?

But the one who endures to the end shall be saved. - Matthew 24:13

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. - Mark 13:13


Peter is called to tell Cornelius the “word” of the Gospel! The Gospel is the power for Cornelius, under the criteria of the New Covenant, to “endure to the end” and “be saved”! The old covenant criteria was obsolete!


Cornelius is no different then any other “God fearer” in the Old Testament. The only unique thing about him is the timing of God as he is making the old covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13). The new covenant includes all nations, not just Israel (Acts 10:15), which means Cornelius can no longer be saved under the old covenant criteria. He must meet the conditions of the new covenant... faith in the Crucified Christ! Under the old covenant he would have been considered saved but sense the old covenant is obsolete, according to Heb 8:13, he must now meet the criteria of the new covenant, namely belief in the resurrected Christ, hence Acts 11:14.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Recently I posted a thread showing that God does not save anyone without the human element. I proved that was true from the scriptures. This is 180 degrees opposite than the Calvinists teaching about salvation. The conversion of Cornelius, the first gentile to be saved in the history of the world, refutes a number of the errors of Reformed doctrines. Here is a man who is not saved, does not hate God while he is in his natural state, a man who seeks God, and a man whom God himself told him there was something that he ought to do to be saved. Calvinists will deny everything about this conversion experience and the opening up of the door of faith to gentiles through Cornelius because they do not believe the words of scripture.

First of all, I will prove to all, who will believe the words, that Cornelius was not saved until Acts 10:44. This means that all that transpired between God, the angel whom God sent to him, and Cornelius in verses 1 through 43 took place while Cornelius was unsaved.

I will quote some verses that will prove without a doubt that Peter and those with him thought Cornelius got saved in Acts 10:44.

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God. 32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee. 33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
_________________________________________________________

A few days later Paul is called to Jerusalem to give account of why he went to gentiles. Here is what he said about Acts 10:44.

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Time out a minute. If Cornelius and his household were already saved before this, Like I have been told by many Calvinists, then someone is lying here. Why would God send a preacher to a man to get him saved who was already saved? Why would Peter report something that was not true?

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.


16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Now you have salvation defined
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is what it takes to be saved according to Peter, because when a man believes on the Lord Jesus Christ God gives him the gift of the Holy Spirit to indwell him. This is what Peter told Cornelius he ought to do. And Cornelius did it.

The baptism was the pouring out of the gift of the Spirit in such abundance on the gentiles that all may drink him in by faith in Christ and be saved. This is a beginning for gentiles and it is referred to in passages like this.

2 Thess 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel (the Jewish gospel), to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What I have bolded in V 13 is exactly what Peter preached to Cornelius in the beginning of gentile salvation.

I am calling on Calvinists to prayerfully consider this salvation story and to believe the words. (even if you must adjust your theology to do so)
Cornelius was born again way before Peter preached the Gospel to him. He already lived righteously, feared God, and was accepted of God before he heard and believed the Gospel. Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Cornelius was born again way before Peter preached the Gospel to him. He already lived righteously, feared God, and was accepted of God before he heard and believed the Gospel. Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Afraid not

Acts 11:13–14 —KJV
“And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Afraid not

Acts 11:13–14 —KJV
“And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.”
Afraid so, already explained
 

JDS

Active member
Cornelius was born again way before Peter preached the Gospel to him. He already lived righteously, feared God, and was accepted of God before he heard and believed the Gospel. Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Do you understand that you are opting for a religious system over the truth by denying what the passage is obviously teaching and has been pointed out to you clearly? All anyone can ask of you is that you be reasonable and logical in considering what the writer is saying because he has intimate knowledge of all these events and is writing them under the inspiration of God. Luke and Peter both agree that Cornelius was saved when he received the gift of the Holy Ghost upon hearing the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is his death, burial, and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins Acts 10:44. The gospel, we are told by Paul in Romans 1:16, is the power, or authority if you like, of God unto salvation, to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first (Acts 1-9) and also to the Greek (Acts 10 until today). The power of God unto salvation is not two things at the same time, pre-election and the gospel. The power is the gospel, period. Sinners must believe the gospel to receive the gift of God, the Holy Spirit, which is salvation. He is the righteousness that God requires of us, imputed to us when we believe, and in us eternally. He is not given to some who have been elected before hearing the gospel but to all sinners who hear and believe. The NT teaches salvation by the grace of God and the faith of men who hear and trust in Christ to deliver them from the judgement of a thrice holy God and those who teach that he will not save men by faith but rejoices in their destruction and in sending them to hell are preaching a false gospel that cannot save, no matter what else they say, whether good or bad.
This is far more serious than you think. If you continue to reject sound and logical reasoning like you are doing in this comment, this will be my last post to you.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Do you understand that you are opting for a religious system over the truth by denying what the passage is obviously teaching and has been pointed out to you clearly? All anyone can ask of you is that you be reasonable and logical in considering what the writer is saying because he has intimate knowledge of all these events and is writing them under the inspiration of God. Luke and Peter both agree that Cornelius was saved when he received the gift of the Holy Ghost upon hearing the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is his death, burial, and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins Acts 10:44. The gospel, we are told by Paul in Romans 1:16, is the power, or authority if you like, of God unto salvation, to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first (Acts 1-9) and also to the Greek (Acts 10 until today). The power of God unto salvation is not two things at the same time, pre-election and the gospel. The power is the gospel, period. Sinners must believe the gospel to receive the gift of God, the Holy Spirit, which is salvation. He is the righteousness that God requires of us, imputed to us when we believe, and in us eternally. He is not given to some who have been elected before hearing the gospel but to all sinners who hear and believe. The NT teaches salvation by the grace of God and the faith of men who hear and trust in Christ to deliver them from the judgement of a thrice holy God and those who teach that he will not save men by faith but rejoices in their destruction and in sending them to hell are preaching a false gospel that cannot save, no matter what else they say, whether good or bad.
This is far more serious than you think. If you continue to reject sound and logical reasoning like you are doing in this comment, this will be my last post to you.
All that said, Cornelius was born again and righteous before God way before he heard the Gospel Peter was sent to preach to him.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes. He was born of God way before he heard the Gospel from Peter. That is the pattern, born again before you and in order to believe the Gospel.
Nope otherwise he would not have needed to be saved

In any case you cannot be born again without the gospel

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1Pet. 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pet. 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pet. 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pet. 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pet. 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pet. 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Cor. 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nope otherwise he would not have needed to be saved

In any case you cannot be born again without the gospel

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1Pet. 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pet. 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pet. 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pet. 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pet. 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pet. 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Cor. 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
This issue I have discussed with you.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
This issue I have discussed with you.
You mean you ignored rebuttal

Nope otherwise he would not have needed to be saved

In any case you cannot be born again without the gospel

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1Pet. 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pet. 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pet. 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pet. 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pet. 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pet. 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Cor. 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
 

JDS

Active member
Calvinists have not shown up on this thread to demonstrate how Calvinism's doctrines are confirmed by an actual 1st century historical narrative of the first gentile in the history of the world getting saved. The reason for this is because this narrative refutes many of their "misunderstood" doctrines better than anything else while it confirm the doctrine of the grace of God towards the world of which Cornelius is the representative.

This narrative debunks total depravity of man as is taught by Calvinists. Cornelius was able to seek God and pray to him. He did not hate God like Calvinists say all lost men do.
It debunks irresistible grace because the grace of God is the same as the gift of God and there is no society in the history of the world that has ever taught that a "gift" cannot be refused.
Unconditional election is debunked by this narrative because the gift, while it can be refused, must be accepted by faith in the words of the preacher. There is no vision, no physical manifestation of the gift, no infusion of the gift (or it would not be a gift), no force of any kind associated with receiving the gift. The offer of this gift that is everywhere present and available all over the world is given to everyone and anyone who will receive it by believing the faithful preacher of the word.
It debunks limited atonement because these are gentiles as opposed to Jews who are for the first time getting the gift offered to them through the preacher. It is whosoever believes among the nations will receive the gift.
It debunks perseverance of the saints because if Cornelius could persevere in the flesh he could get salvation through the flesh but the scriptures says they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

This is the opening of the door of faith to gentiles for the very first time and it is still open. This is the grace of God and the faith of man synchronized together to bring salvation. This is God's plan. The salvation of God is the possession of men of his gift of the Holy Spirit, who is a person, and he is God. He is received when men believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. The good news that he is the remedy for sin and when a man believes in his heart, the blood of Jesus Christ is applied and washes away that believer's sins. The Spirit indwells him. The Spirit is eternal and will never leave or forsake the believer, but seals him in the righteousness of Christ forever and God is always a present possession, eternal life. This believer has passed from death to life in an instant of believing and becomes a son of God by possessing the divine nature of God in his being.

This transaction will take place anywhere in the world and at any time someone in the world believes the gospel of Jesus Christ from the heart. Believing from the heart just means to the degree that his belief will cause him to repent of his sins and be willing to follow Christ and having him for his Lord. Remember, Jesus Christ is in charge of "administrations." 1 Cor 12.

I wish that Calvinists could see these truths because it is my firm conviction that when I compare the true gospel of Christ and of God with what Calvinists preach, they are not the same.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

The washing of regeneration (we become a son of God through the new birth) and renewing of the Holy Ghost takes place at the same time, when a person believes the gospel.

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

This is too wonderful to get wrong.

Acts 10 - 11 is the historical account of the explanation of Eph 2.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
because it is my firm conviction that when I compare the true gospel of Christ and of God with what Calvinists preach, they are not the same.

Why should anyone care about your alleged "firm conviction"?

It is OUR "firm conviction" that "when [WE] compare the true gospel of Christ and of God with what Calvinists preach, they ARE the same".

So why is your "conviction" any better than our own?
Should we reject our own "conviction" and blindly accept the "conviction" of some anonymous Internet poster who's most significant "fruit" is insulting others?

I don't think so.
Blindly following another who is clearly teaching falsehood is called "being in a cult", and so it is IDIOTIC to blindly follow your false teachings.


Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

The washing of regeneration (we become a son of God through the new birth) and renewing of the Holy Ghost takes place at the same time, when a person believes the gospel.

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

This is too wonderful to get wrong.

Acts 10 - 11 is the historical account of the explanation of Eph 2.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
 

JDS

Active member
Why should anyone care about your alleged "firm conviction"?

It is OUR "firm conviction" that "when [WE] compare the true gospel of Christ and of God with what Calvinists preach, they ARE the same".

So why is your "conviction" any better than our own?
Should we reject our own "conviction" and blindly accept the "conviction" of some anonymous Internet poster who's most significant "fruit" is insulting others?

I don't think so.
Blindly following another who is clearly teaching falsehood is called "being in a cult", and so it is IDIOTIC to blindly follow your false teachings.
This is actually a great question with a simple answer and I am glad you asked it. The answer is because what I have said is true about the passage. It is historically true. Cornelius was the first gentile to be saved in the history of the world. It is theologically true. Cornelius was saved when the Holy Spirit entered into his body when he believed the gospel. This historical and theological information agrees with everything we learn about salvation of God in the rest of the Bible.

We even know WHY God included the gentiles into this body, the church, because he tells us in the explanation of the history. This event in Acts 10 with the salvation of Cornelius, the first gentile to be saved, occurred in AD 40. This is ten years after Jesus Christ rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. The reason God did this is given in the epistle of Romans, which was written in AD 58. This is 28 years after the beginning of the formation of the church of Jesus Christ with those of Israel only in Acts 2 and 18 years after the Cornelius event in Acts 10. I will quote a portion of that explanation that begins in Rom 7:1 and continues through Rom 11:36. Read this passage and understand that there is a historical context to scriptures. You should be curios about these things if you want to understand the mind of God.

Before I quote this you must understand that every pronoun below that I have highlighted in bold is gentiles. This is the place in the letter he begins to explain the entrance of the gentiles into the purpose of God, the purpose being to fashion the body of Jesus Christ, his church. From Rom 7:1 to 11:12 he has been speaking to those of Israel with whom he had established everlasting and immutable covenants in time past and who were his people. The inclusion of the gentiles with the Jews to form the body had it's beginning, as far as the gentiles are concerned, in Acts 10 with Cornelius. It was a mystery of God because his intention to form this body was with the Jews and his program with them was legitimate. The gentiles were included because of Israel's unbelief, except for a small remnant of Jews who believed the gospel of Christ and were saved and were the beginning of this church in Acts 2 when the Spirit was first poured out from heaven on them.


13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Here is a nutshell teaching of this same event.

16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper. (the unpardonable sin of the rulers of Israel)

The supper is at the end of the day. It is the fullness of time (Ga 4:4) Jesus came at the time of the end of the law (Rom 10:4) It was at the time of harvest. Israel would not come. Only a few came. He sent his servant out (the Holy Ghost) to bid the gentiles to come so his house (family) may be filled.

When the fullness of the gentiles be come in he will make arrangements to save Israel, so he says in Romans 11.

I am asking you to believe the sensible and logical words of the scriptures.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
This is actually a great question with a simple answer and I am glad you asked it. The answer is because what I have said is true about the passage.

Wow.
You truly have zero self-awareness.
So anything you say is true, simply because you say it?

Sorry, but you are wrong.
Anything *I* say is true, so anything you say which contradicts me, must necessarily be false.

Do you see how fallacious and bankrupt your "logic" is?


So you have given ZERO reason for anyone to accept your alleged "firm conviction".

It is historically true. Cornelius was the first gentile to be saved in the history of the world.

<Chuckle>
You seem to be ASSUMING that the Bible is some "exhaustive" account of history.

You should be curios about these things if you want to understand the mind of God.

What you don't seem to understand is that you are NOT God.

I am asking you to believe the sensible and logical words of the scriptures.

I can (and do) do that very well without you having to constantly post your nonsense.
 

JDS

Active member
Wow.
You truly have zero self-awareness.
So anything you say is true, simply because you say it?

Sorry, but you are wrong.
Anything *I* say is true, so anything you say which contradicts me, must necessarily be false.

Do you see how fallacious and bankrupt your "logic" is?


So you have given ZERO reason for anyone to accept your alleged "firm conviction".



<Chuckle>
You seem to be ASSUMING that the Bible is some "exhaustive" account of history.



What you don't seem to understand is that you are NOT God.



I can (and do) do that very well without you having to constantly post your nonsense.
What is non-sensical about what I have posted?
 
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