The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

brightfame52

Well-known member
The religion of man doesn't believe that the death of Christ alone results in the Eternal Salvation of all for whom Christ died, namely His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 or His Church Eph 5:25, or His People Matt 1:21.

His death for His people produces saving results Jn 12:32-33 23,24

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The religion of man doesn't believe that the death of Christ alone results in the Eternal Salvation of all for whom Christ died, namely His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 or His Church Eph 5:25, or His People Matt 1:21.

His death for His people produces saving results Jn 12:32-33 23,24

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
More bad theology

John 3:14–15 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
More bad theology

John 3:14–15 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
This exalts Christ Let's go over the details of the op
 

TomFL

Well-known member
This exalts Christ Let's go over the details of the op
No deal with the fact belief came before eternal life


John 3:14–15 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No deal with the fact belief came before eternal life


John 3:14–15 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
You always run from the facts I post to start a rabbit trail. Sorry I will continue to post facts so if anyone wants to discuss them they can. You want me to lay aside what I labor to do and labor in all your evasive quotes. Nada!
 

TibiasDad

Active member
The religion of man doesn't believe that the death of Christ alone results in the Eternal Salvation of all for whom Christ died, namely His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 or His Church Eph 5:25, or His People Matt 1:21.

His death for His people produces saving results Jn 12:32-33 23,24

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

1) The Arminian/non-Calvinistic perspective is not the "religion of man".

2) Christ died for the sins of all men, not just those who have already believed. (1 John 2:1-2, 1 Tim 2:4)

3) 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

πάντας is a plural masculine pronoun that means all mankind, so does that mean that all mankind is saved? If Christ's death results in salvation for all, as you are asserting, then John 12:31-32 necessarily means that all mankind is saved!

4) 23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.


"brings forth much fruit " does not mean or imply that all that Christ died for are necessarily saved. It only means that the death of Christ is very fruitful, and that it does not return void!

You are reading your assumptions into the text. You are assuming these eisegetic notions are true to prove that they are true. Both being logical faux pas!

Doug
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
1) The Arminian/non-Calvinistic perspective is not the "religion of man".

2) Christ died for the sins of all men, not just those who have already believed. (1 John 2:1-2, 1 Tim 2:4)

3) 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

πάντας is a plural masculine pronoun that means all mankind, so does that mean that all mankind is saved? If Christ's death results in salvation for all, as you are asserting, then John 12:31-32 necessarily means that all mankind is saved!

4) 23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.


"brings forth much fruit " does not mean or imply that all that Christ died for are necessarily saved. It only means that the death of Christ is very fruitful, and that it does not return void!

You are reading your assumptions into the text. You are assuming these eisegetic notions are true to prove that they are true. Both being logical faux pas!

Doug
Yes that is exactly what it is saying. Spiritual life and salvation is the fruit and effect of Christ death and resurrection.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You always run from the facts I post to start a rabbit trail. Sorry I will continue to post facts so if anyone wants to discuss them they can. You want me to lay aside what I labor to do and labor in all your evasive quotes. Nada!

Sorry that is the fact. You just deny it and will not deal with it


John 3:14–15 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”

belief precedes eternal life no matter how much you try to reverse that
 

TomFL

Well-known member
This exalts Christ Let's go over the details of the op
Deal with scripture and stop the avoidance tactics


John 3:14–15 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The Death of Christ alone saved them he died for, namely the Elect, the Sheep, since by His One Offering they were sanctified unto God once and for all Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The Death of Christ alone saved them he died for, namely the Elect, the Sheep, since by His One Offering they were sanctified unto God once and for all Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Once again you read your theology into a verse

It does not mention The Death of Christ alone saved them he died for, namely the Elect, the Sheep,

It simply says we

The we are defined within the book

Heb. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb. 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Heb. 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Heb. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

those who heard the gospel and had faith
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Once again you read your theology into a verse

It does not mention The Death of Christ alone saved them he died for, namely the Elect, the Sheep,

It simply says we

The we are defined within the book

Heb. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb. 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Heb. 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Heb. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

those who heard the gospel and had faith
According to Heb 10:10 how were they, the Believers Hes writing to, sanctified once and for all ? Then we are going to study the word sanctify.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
According to Heb 10:10 how were they, the Believers Hes writing to, sanctified once and for all ? Then we are going to study the word sanctify.
Did you address who the we are

Once again you read your theology into a verse

It does not mention The Death of Christ alone saved them he died for, namely the Elect, the Sheep,

It simply says we

The we are defined within the book

Heb. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb. 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Heb. 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Heb. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

those who heard the gospel and had faith
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
tom

Did you address who the we are

Yes in post 14. Now quit evading and running, How were they sanctified once and for all ? If you dont answer, I will just ignore you and go on to my next point.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
tom



Yes in post 14. Now quit evading and running, How were they sanctified once and for all ? If you dont answer, I will just ignore you and go on to my next point.
Believers not unbelievers through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all
 
Top