The self defense justification for abortion - does anyone subscribe?

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
The intrusion farce. The mom had all her lifetime ovum in her when she was born.

Her organs were designed by God to welcome sperm from her husband.
Then why do so many married couples struggle to get pregnant?
Why do so many unmarried couples get pregnant?

Why do rape victims get pregnant?

Your all-powerful god designed a system that doesn't work when it's supposed to, and works when it's not.
 
Last edited:

BMS

Well-known member
Then why do so many married couples struggle to get pregnant?
Not an sane answer. If couples didnt struggle would that mean Her organs were designed by God to welcome sperm from her husband.?
NO. conception doesnt always occur and her organs were designed by God to welcome sperm from her husband.

And the point to you was "Her organs were designed by God to welcome sperm from her husband."

Do you accept that?
 

DaGeo

Active member
Yeah, pro-Abortion arguments would be laughable if they weren’t so pathetic
Then why do so many married couples struggle to get pregnant?
Why do so many unmarried couples get pregnant?

Why do rape victims get pregnant?

Your all-powerful god designed a system that doesn't work when it's supposed to, and works when it's not.
Fudge a statistic here and there and you have abortion rationale.
People mess up themselves and others and then blame God. Sounds a bit like psychosis
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Fudge a statistic here and there and you have abortion rationale.
People mess up themselves and others and then blame God. Sounds a bit like psychosis
You are wrong here (as so frequently is the case!). Atheists do not blame God. They are asking why, given these facts, you think that God is so great.
 

mikeT

Well-known member
Why do rape victims get pregnant?
That's a question I've not thought about, in the context of questioning the perfection and existence of the Christian God.

It's rather obvious that if God truly cared about free-willed human life, He could have made pregnancy impossible outside the (supposed) spiritual union of marriage.

I wonder why He didn't...
 

DaGeo

Active member
You are wrong here (as so frequently is the case!). Atheists do not blame God. They are asking why, given these facts, you think that God is so great.
Try looking outside the limits of the confines of your self-made intellectual enclosures and breath in that fresh outside air. Then ask yourself—no wait, don’t ask yourself‼️
Here, try this: JUST look at all the marvelous complexities that are all about you. Next, keep on telling yourself it all evolved.
Until the time you finally and fully convince yourself, just deduce that it must be all about God and what he has made‼️

Hope that helps
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Try looking outside the limits of the confines of your self-made intellectual enclosures and breath in that fresh outside air. Then ask yourself—no wait, don’t ask yourself‼️
Here, try this: JUST look at all the marvelous complexities that are all about you. Next, keep on telling yourself it all evolved.
Until the time you finally and fully convince yourself, just deduce that it must be all about God and what he has made‼️

Hope that helps
So, completely ignore the point put to you in favour of more fatuous platitudes. I see you are behaving normally.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
I would disagree that the fifth statement follows from the others. In very rare cases the effect of the pregnancy threatens the life of the woman. I don't agree that anyone has the right to use lethal force to remove a non-lethal threat to their welfare. The principle of self-defense is that it should be proportionate to the threat. That is why I don't think that this is a good argument for abortion. There are many better ones.

I do agree with everything else you say. In particular the parasitic nature of the developing unborn human. This is biologically obvious. Shying away from the word because it is yukky is just pathetic.
I must disagree strongly with your first statement. If my health is being negatively impacted by someone (but not to the point of death) and the only way I can stop them is lethal force, I cannot ever stop them? I'm forced to be harmed indefinitely?
 

DaGeo

Active member
So, completely ignore the point put to you in favour of more fatuous platitudes. I see you are behaving normally.
Part of normal behavior for me is the pleasure in life of exposing bad argumentation. Thanks for your support ‼️‼️😂😂🤣👍
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Part of normal behavior for me is the pleasure in life of exposing bad argumentation. Thanks for your support ‼️‼️😂😂🤣👍
You get pleasure from posting your own posts. Yes, we all see that.
 

BMS

Well-known member
That's a question I've not thought about, in the context of questioning the perfection and existence of the Christian God.

It's rather obvious that if God truly cared about free-willed human life, He could have made pregnancy impossible outside the (supposed) spiritual union of marriage.

I wonder why He didn't...
Cos He didnt make sexual intercourse just for pleasure
 

BMS

Well-known member
You are wrong here (as so frequently is the case!). Atheists do not blame God. They are asking why, given these facts, you think that God is so great.
How do you know since atheists may self identify as doing so
 

BMS

Well-known member
That is not a fact (well, to be more precise, it is not evidenced to be a fact. Perhaps it is. But that it is has not been shown); it is your claim.
It is a fact because the same human being goes through stages of development from zygote to embryo to foetus, to baby, to child etc, so it is a human being. The question here is why are you blind to observable reality.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
I recently heard for the first time this argument:

1. Assume for the sake of discussion that a fetus at some stage of development is granted personhood for moral purposes (not necesarily legal purposes).

2. Assume for the sake of discussion that it is a normal pregnancy without medical complications, and the life of the mother is not at risk.

3. The fetus is taking oxygen and nutrients from the woman's bloodstream, and injecting hormones and waste, which is a form of bodily violation.

4. Nothing has the moral right to perform this violation on a woman's body.

5. Therefore by the self defense principle, the woman has the moral right to use lethal force on the fetus, right up until this violation ends, at birth.

Does anyone here subscribe to this argument, and would you be prepared to have a calm and sensible debate about it?
Worst pile of nonsense I have ever seen.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
I accept this part of the argument - in purely biological terms, it is reasonable to say that the fetus is a form parasite.

At an emotional level, without any qualifications, this works in in favour of the pro-choicers.

Rationally speaking, it doesn't directly imply anything about personhood, and moral status, at least not without further supporting arguments.
The nonsense just keeps on giving.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
I agree with you the choice to have sex with whoever you like but there are consequences. If a woman sleeps with someone who has syphilis, and she contracts the disease, should she be free to decide if that person lives or dies?
And the rates of syphillis are rising once again. This teaches this the concept of reaping and sowing. Another HIV is mutating and will likely be more virulent.
 
Top