The so called "Trinity" does not exist!

Μιχαήλ

New Member
Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ' I AM has sent me to you.'" 15 God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ' The LORD [YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and this is my memorial-name to all generations.

I AM 3:14 1 Related to the name of God, YHWH, rendered LORD, which is derived from the verb HAYAH, to be

OT:3068* Yehovah

Jehovah (Yahweh) = "the existing One"
the proper name of the one true God; unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of OT:136

(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright © 1993, Woodside Bible Fellowship, Ontario, Canada. Licensed from the Institute for Creation Research.)

YHWH

יְהֹוָה

OT:3068 Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:

KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me…

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.


These are the words of one person, YHWH. He alone is God and there is no other person who is God. He is SELF-Existent (not selves-existent) or the existing ONE (not three)! The words of YHWH alone make it impossible that there are three persons who all exist as God!
 

Andreas

Active member
i don’t really care.

The Father, His Spirit and Christ are three gorgeous Beings

Each is deity.
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.

You're view of three beings means these beings have a pronoun problem. The God of the Bible doesn't.
 

jamesh

Active member
Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ' I AM has sent me to you.'" 15 God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ' The LORD [YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and this is my memorial-name to all generations.

I AM 3:14 1 Related to the name of God, YHWH, rendered LORD, which is derived from the verb HAYAH, to be

OT:3068* Yehovah

Jehovah (Yahweh) = "the existing One"
the proper name of the one true God; unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of OT:136

(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright © 1993, Woodside Bible Fellowship, Ontario, Canada. Licensed from the Institute for Creation Research.)

YHWH

יְהֹוָה

OT:3068 Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:

KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me…

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.


These are the words of one person, YHWH. He alone is God and there is no other person who is God. He is SELF-Existent (not selves-existent) or the existing ONE (not three)! The words of YHWH alone make it impossible that there are three persons who all exist as God!
So you must believe from the context of Exodus chapter 3 that Jesus is God, correct?

Blessings,
james
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ' I AM has sent me to you.'" 15 God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ' The LORD [YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and this is my memorial-name to all generations.
I AM 3:14 1 Related to the name of God, YHWH, rendered LORD, which is derived from the verb HAYAH, to be
OT:3068* Yehovah —
Jehovah (Yahweh) = "the existing One"
the proper name of the one true God; unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of OT:136
(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright © 1993, Woodside Bible Fellowship, Ontario, Canada. Licensed from the Institute for Creation Research.)
YHWH
יְהֹוָה
OT:3068 ‎Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:
KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me…
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”
Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.
These are the words of one person, YHWH. He alone is God and there is no other person who is God. He is SELF-Existent (not selves-existent) or the existing ONE (not three)! The words of YHWH alone make it impossible that there are three persons who all exist as God!
This post might have had some merit if it did not suffer from what I call the "Strong's Fallacy."
Strong's is not a lexicon it is a concordance. It does not present a researched definition of words. It only shows where words occur in the KJV and how the words are translated in the KJV which may or may not be correct.
See e.g. the "name" Jehovah. All Hebrew names have meaning. There is no such word as Jehovah in Hebrew. First there is no letter "J." The letter "J" snuck into the Bible when Luther translated the Bible into German. The name Hebrew name ישׁוע/Yeshua which means "He will save." is transliterated "Ἰησοῦς"/iesous in the 225 BC Septuagint, Greek translation of the OT abbreviated LXX. "Iesous" is pronounced Yaysoos. There is no written "sh" sound in Greek. In Greek female names end in "a." To make Yeshua masculine the "a" was changed to "s."
When Luther translated the Bible he transliterated Iesous as "Jesus." In German "J" is pronounced "Y" and "E" is pronounced "ay." As for Jehovah here is a quoted from the Jewish Encyclopedia.
the form "Jehovah," which, however, is a philological impossibility (see Jehovah). This form has arisen through attempting to pronounce the consonants of the name with the vowels of Adonai (
V09p160003.jpg
= "Lord"), which the Masorites have inserted in the text, indicating thereby that Adonai was to be read (as a "ḳeri perpetuum") instead of Yhwh.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
This post might have had some merit if it did not suffer from what I call the "Strong's Fallacy."
Strong's is not a lexicon it is a concordance. It does not present a researched definition of words.

Your inclusion of the word "researched" is the only thing keeping your assertion from being 100% false:

"In the 1890 version, Strong added a 'Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary' and a 'Greek Dictionary of the New Testament' to his concordance. In the preface to both dictionaries, Strong explains that these are "brief and simple" dictionaries, not meant to replace reference to "a more copious and elaborate Lexicon." He mentions Gesenius and Fürst as examples of the lexicons that Strong's is drawn from. His dictionaries were meant to give students a quick and simple way to look up words and have a general idea of their meaning."
-- Wikipedia

I mention this because there are many who take advantage that Strong's lexicon is not only freely available (public domain), but not comprehensive or nuanced, allows people to use it and look "scholarly", while at the same time taking advantage of the imprecise definitions to twist things to better fit their favourite doctrines.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Your inclusion of the word "researched" is the only thing keeping your assertion from being 100% false:
"In the 1890 version, Strong added a 'Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary' and a 'Greek Dictionary of the New Testament' to his concordance. In the preface to both dictionaries, Strong explains that these are "brief and simple" dictionaries, not meant to replace reference to "a more copious and elaborate Lexicon." He mentions Gesenius and Fürst as examples of the lexicons that Strong's is drawn from. His dictionaries were meant to give students a quick and simple way to look up words and have a general idea of their meaning."
-- Wikipedia
I mention this because there are many who take advantage that Strong's lexicon is not only freely available (public domain), but not comprehensive or nuanced, allows people to use it and look "scholarly", while at the same time taking advantage of the imprecise definitions to twist things to better fit their favourite doctrines.
I didn't make this stuff up.
Wiki? You got to be kidding anyone can post, change, delete anything without review.
"Strong's has been found to have about 15,000 errors or omissions." Two of many links. Google it.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I didn't make this stuff up.
Wiki? You got to be kidding anyone can post, change, delete anything without review.
"Strong's has been found to have about 15,000 errors or omissions." Two of many links. Google it.

Wow...
I've got a copy of Strong's dictionary in my Accordance software.
You denied Strong's was a dictionary, you said you were right, and I was wrong, and then you provide your OWN link which proves the existence of Strong's dictionary (which you denied existed).

Are you kidding me?
As for its unreliability, I never claimed it was reliable.
I've repeatedly stated that it is hopelessly imprecise and outdated.

So thank you for proving yourself wrong, and me right.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Wow...
I've got a copy of Strong's dictionary in my Accordance software.
You denied Strong's was a dictionary, you said you were right, and I was wrong, and then you provide your OWN link which proves the existence of Strong's dictionary (which you denied existed).
Are you kidding me?
As for its unreliability, I never claimed it was reliable.
I've repeatedly stated that it is hopelessly imprecise and outdated.
So thank you for proving yourself wrong, and me right.
Did you even bother to glance at my 2 of many links? Nah too busy trying to find something and say "Gotcha!" From the first link
Therefore, a manageable concordance could only be based upon the root words, but as James Strong says himself in his preface, his dictionary was never meant for Word study.​
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Did you even bother to glance at my 2 of many links? Nah too busy trying to find something and say "Gotcha!" From the first link
Therefore, a manageable concordance could only be based upon the root words, but as James Strong says himself in his preface, his dictionary was never meant for Word study.​

So you're referring me to Strong's "dictionary" that you claimed didn't exist?
Just man up and admit that you made a mistake.
It's not that big of a deal!
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
This post might have had some merit if it did not suffer from what I call the "Strong's Fallacy."
Strong's is not a lexicon it is a concordance. It does not present a researched definition of words. It only shows where words occur in the KJV and how the words are translated in the KJV which may or may not be correct.

This is correct.


See e.g. the "name" Jehovah. All Hebrew names have meaning. There is no such word as Jehovah in Hebrew. First there is no letter "J." The letter "J" snuck into the Bible when Luther translated the Bible into German. The name Hebrew name ישׁוע/Yeshua which means "He will save." is transliterated "Ἰησοῦς"/iesous in the 225 BC Septuagint, Greek translation of the OT abbreviated LXX. "Iesous" is pronounced Yaysoos. There is no written "sh" sound in Greek. In Greek female names end in "a." To make Yeshua masculine the "a" was changed to "s."
When Luther translated the Bible he transliterated Iesous as "Jesus." In German "J" is pronounced "Y" and "E" is pronounced "ay." As for Jehovah here is a quoted from the Jewish Encyclopedia.
the form "Jehovah," which, however, is a philological impossibility (see Jehovah). This form has arisen through attempting to pronounce the consonants of the name with the vowels of Adonai (
V09p160003.jpg
= "Lord"), which the Masorites have inserted in the text, indicating thereby that Adonai was to be read (as a "ḳeri perpetuum") instead of Yhwh.​
 

Biblican

Well-known member
Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ' I AM has sent me to you.'" 15 God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ' The LORD [YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and this is my memorial-name to all generations.

I AM 3:14 1 Related to the name of God, YHWH, rendered LORD, which is derived from the verb HAYAH, to be

OT:3068* Yehovah

Jehovah (Yahweh) = "the existing One"
the proper name of the one true God; unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of OT:136

(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright © 1993, Woodside Bible Fellowship, Ontario, Canada. Licensed from the Institute for Creation Research.)

YHWH

יְהֹוָה

OT:3068 Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:

KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me…

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.


These are the words of one person, YHWH. He alone is God and there is no other person who is God. He is SELF-Existent (not selves-existent) or the existing ONE (not three)! The words of YHWH alone make it impossible that there are three persons who all exist as God!
In Isaiah 42:1 we see the Three of scripture in one verse, God, the Holy Spirit and the Messiah. God is one Spirit as Jesus said, - "God is Spirit" John 4:24. He is one Spirit which is His substance and He has a person, which is "soul" (Isaiah 42:1, Jeremiah 6:8, Psalm 11:5). His person directs the operations of His Spirit (Psalm 104:30). So from the scriptures we can see that God the Father is two without being more than one, soul and spirit. He unifies Himself with the begotten soul/person of the Messiah through His Spirit as we note in Isaiah 42:1. God is never disconnected from His own Spirit, therefore God, His Spirit and the Messiah are one, a tri-unity of three.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
In Isaiah 42:1 we see the Three of scripture in one verse, God, the Holy Spirit and the Messiah.

You don't seem to realize that counting "1, 2, 3" won't result in a single 3 person God.

The text isn't referring to a 3 person God; your imagination is doing that.

God is one Spirit as Jesus said, - "God is Spirit" John 4:24. He is one Spirit which is His substance and He has a person, which is "soul" (Isaiah 42:1, Jeremiah 6:8, Psalm 11:5). His person directs the operations of His Spirit (Psalm 104:30). So from the scriptures we can see that God the Father is two without being more than one, soul and spirit. He unifies Himself with the begotten soul/person of the Messiah through His Spirit as we note in Isaiah 42:1. God is never disconnected from His own Spirit, therefore God, His Spirit and the Messiah are one, a tri-unity of three.
 

Biblican

Well-known member
You don't seem to realize that counting "1, 2, 3" won't result in a single 3 person God.

The text isn't referring to a 3 person God; your imagination is doing that.
There is no plurality in God the Father, any theologian will tell you that. He is one Spirit and He has a person which is fully supported by the scriptures. He unifies Himself with the Messiah through His Spirit making them one as we see in Isaiah 42:1. The meaning of the word Trinity simply means a union of three. It does not mean that the Father is plural or more than one.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
There is no plurality in God the Father, any theologian will tell you that.

That's nice but quite irrelevant.

He is one Spirit and He has a person

A person has a person?

which is fully supported by the scriptures. He unifies Himself with the Messiah through His Spirit making them one as we see in Isaiah 42:1. The meaning of the word Trinity simply means a union of three. It does not mean that the Father is plural or more than one.

That's nice but irrelevant.
 

101G

Well-known member
I said Hands, not Hand.
Greeting Eve,
if Christ is God's Hands is it then he God himself? listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." is not MINE is me one person?
for the ARM of God is revealed in Isaiah chapter 53. remember "MINE", his OWN ARE is the Christ, God himself.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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