The so called "Trinity" does not exist!

Μιχαήλ

New Member
Too much digression here! This thread is specifically about the words YHWH uses in reference to Himself, words which are not meaningless and which are easily understood and enable us to comprehend who God is and the manner in which He exists. His words absolutely disprove the existence of a Trinity!


Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the LORD [YHWH], your protector, says, the one who formed you in the womb: “I am the LORD [YHWH], who made everything, who alone stretched out the sky, who fashioned the earth all by myself...



These are the words of one person, YHWH, and He is speaking in reference to Himself to the exclusion of any other person(s). He specifically states that He alone is God, so there can’t be another person who is also God. He makes it very clear that He has no equal and there is no other person like Him. He alone is the creator of all existence. He is SELF-Existent, not selves-existent! He is the Eternal or existing ONE, the not Eternal or existing three! These statements, which are spoken by YHWH God Himself, make it impossible that there are three persons who all exist as God!
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Too much digression here! This thread is specifically about the words YHWH uses in reference to Himself, words which are not meaningless and which are easily understood and enable us to comprehend who God is and the manner in which He exists. His words absolutely disprove the existence of a Trinity!


Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the LORD [YHWH], your protector, says, the one who formed you in the womb: “I am the LORD [YHWH], who made everything, who alone stretched out the sky, who fashioned the earth all by myself...



These are the words of one person, YHWH, and He is speaking in reference to Himself to the exclusion of any other person(s). He specifically states that He alone is God, so there can’t be another person who is also God. He makes it very clear that He has no equal and there is no other person like Him. He alone is the creator of all existence. He is SELF-Existent, not selves-existent! He is the Eternal or existing ONE, the not Eternal or existing three! These statements, which are spoken by YHWH God Himself, make it impossible that there are three persons who all exist as God!
They are the words of The ONE God, The ONE Being.
NOTHING in this passage excludes The Trinity.
 

Μιχαήλ

New Member
ONE BEING and His words do NOT exclude The ACTUAL Trinity.
Try using your brain! God said, "I AM," not "we are!" This is an individual entity who revealed Himself to Moses and the Israelites as YHWH, the existing ONE, not three! He clearly possesses the moral, intellectual, and emotional characteristics or qualities of a person in that He speaks as a person and interacts with humans as a person. He is the paradigmatic example of a person!

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM that I AM.”48 And he said, "You must say this to the Israelites, ' I AM has sent me to you.'" 15 God also said to Moses, "You must say this to the Israelites, ‘The LORD50—the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob - has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my memorial from generation to generation.'

48tn The verb form used here is אֶהְיֶה (ʾehyeh), the Qal imperfect, first person common singular, of the verb הָיָה (hayah, “to be”). It forms an excellent paronomasia with the name. So when God used the verb to express his name, he used this form saying, “I am.” When his people refer to him as Yahweh, which is the third person masculine singular form of the same verb, they say “he is.”

50sn Heb “Yahweh,” traditionally rendered “the LORD.” First the verb “I AM” was used (v. 14) in place of the name to indicate its meaning and to remind Moses of God’s promise to be with him (v. 12). Now in v. 15 the actual name is used for clear identification: “Yahweh…has sent me.” This is the name that the patriarchs invoked and proclaimed in the land of Canaan.

(from The NET Bible®, Copyright © 1996-2006 by Biblical Studies Press, L.L.C., Dallas, Texas)

https://netbible.org/bible/Exodus+3:14


I AM 3:14 1 Related to the name of God, YHWH, rendered LORD, which is derived from the verb HAYAH, to be

OT:3068* Yehovah

Jehovah (Yahweh) = "the existing One"
the proper name of the one true God; unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of OT:136

(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright © 1993, Woodside Bible Fellowship, Ontario, Canada. Licensed from the Institute for Creation Research.)

YHWH

יְהֹוָה

OT:3068 Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:


KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the LORD [YHWH], your protector, says, the one who formed you in the womb: “I am the LORD [YHWH], who made everything, who alone stretched out the sky, who fashioned the earth all by myself...

The grammatical facts of the language YHWH uses here establishes that He is ONE PERSON, and it demonstrates that the existence of a trinity is IMPOSSIBLE!
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Try using your brain! God said, "I AM," not "we are!" This is an individual entity who revealed Himself to Moses and the Israelites as YHWH, the existing ONE, not three! He clearly possesses the moral, intellectual, and emotional characteristics or qualities of a person in that He speaks as a person and interacts with humans as a person. He is the paradigmatic example of a person!

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM that I AM.”48 And he said, "You must say this to the Israelites, ' I AM has sent me to you.'" 15 God also said to Moses, "You must say this to the Israelites, ‘The LORD50—the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob - has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my memorial from generation to generation.'

48tn The verb form used here is אֶהְיֶה (ʾehyeh), the Qal imperfect, first person common singular, of the verb הָיָה (hayah, “to be”). It forms an excellent paronomasia with the name. So when God used the verb to express his name, he used this form saying, “I am.” When his people refer to him as Yahweh, which is the third person masculine singular form of the same verb, they say “he is.”

50sn Heb “Yahweh,” traditionally rendered “the LORD.” First the verb “I AM” was used (v. 14) in place of the name to indicate its meaning and to remind Moses of God’s promise to be with him (v. 12). Now in v. 15 the actual name is used for clear identification: “Yahweh…has sent me.” This is the name that the patriarchs invoked and proclaimed in the land of Canaan.

(from The NET Bible®, Copyright © 1996-2006 by Biblical Studies Press, L.L.C., Dallas, Texas)

https://netbible.org/bible/Exodus+3:14


I AM 3:14 1 Related to the name of God, YHWH, rendered LORD, which is derived from the verb HAYAH, to be

OT:3068* Yehovah

Jehovah (Yahweh) = "the existing One"
the proper name of the one true God; unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of OT:136

(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright © 1993, Woodside Bible Fellowship, Ontario, Canada. Licensed from the Institute for Creation Research.)

YHWH

יְהֹוָה

OT:3068 Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw'); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:


KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the LORD [YHWH], your protector, says, the one who formed you in the womb: “I am the LORD [YHWH], who made everything, who alone stretched out the sky, who fashioned the earth all by myself...

The grammatical facts of the language YHWH uses here establishes that He is ONE PERSON, and it demonstrates that the existence of a trinity is IMPOSSIBLE!
Since God is ONE Being of course He would say "I AM".
Next...................
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Nothing snide about it, just curious of the origin of your persona/mask rubbish.
Yet another snide remark if there ever was one.
God is a divine consciousness or entity who possesses moral, intellectual, and emotional characteristics or qualities;
Agreed, and this applies to all people. These subjective qualities are mediated through the person presented objectively to the world. The relationship of the subject and object requires this copula. This is trinitarian. Reality is trinitarian, and reality is the medium itself. Paul points out that there is only one mediator between God and man, and that mediator /medium is trinitarian.
therefore, He is the paradigmatic example of a person.
And when Moses encounters God, he is presented as a bush. That's the persona presented to him. The incarnation of Christ is another example. He is the temple that God resides within.
 

Μιχαήλ

New Member
Yet another snide remark if there ever was one.

Agreed, and this applies to all people. These subjective qualities are mediated through the person presented objectively to the world. The relationship of the subject and object requires this copula. This is trinitarian. Reality is trinitarian, and reality is the medium itself. Paul points out that there is only one mediator between God and man, and that mediator /medium is trinitarian.

And when Moses encounters God, he is presented as a bush. That's the persona presented to him. The incarnation of Christ is another example. He is the temple that God resides within.
John 4:24 God is spirit…

1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the eternal king, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever! Amen.

You fail to consider YHWH’s existence without creation. He is spirit, eternal, incorporeal, and invisible. His making Himself visible to humans through theophanies like the burning bush, etc., and His eventual incarnation in Jesus Christ, are irrelevant.

Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the LORD [YHWH], your protector, says, the one who formed you in the womb: “I am the LORD [YHWH], who made everything, who alone stretched out the sky, who fashioned the earth all by myself...

The grammatical facts of the language YHWH uses here establishes that He is ONE PERSON, and it demonstrates that the existence of a trinity is IMPOSSIBLE!
 

Μιχαήλ

New Member
Correct. Thus reveals The Bible.
The Bible reveals no such thing. This understanding is imposed upon the Scripture by Trinitarians, it IS NOT the explicit teaching of Scripture itself!

Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me…

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the LORD [YHWH], your protector, says, the one who formed you in the womb: “I am the LORD [YHWH], who made everything, who alone stretched out the sky, who fashioned the earth all by myself...

Which member of your so-called trinity made these statements?
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
The Bible reveals no such thing. This understanding is imposed upon the Scripture by Trinitarians, it IS NOT the explicit teaching of Scripture itself!

Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me…

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”

Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.

Isaiah 44:24 This is what the LORD [YHWH], your protector, says, the one who formed you in the womb: “I am the LORD [YHWH], who made everything, who alone stretched out the sky, who fashioned the earth all by myself...

Which member of your so-called trinity made these statements?
Don't know, nor does it matter.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
The Bible reveals no such thing. This understanding is imposed upon the Scripture by Trinitarians, it IS NOT the explicit teaching of Scripture itself!
Isaiah 46:5 To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike? 9 …I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me…
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD [YHWH], and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.”
Isaiah 44:6 This is what the LORD [YHWH], Israel’s king, says, their protector, the LORD [YHWH] who commands armies: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, there is no God but me.
Isaiah 44:24 This is what the LORD [YHWH], your protector, says, the one who formed you in the womb: “I am the LORD [YHWH], who made everything, who alone stretched out the sky, who fashioned the earth all by myself...
Which member of your so-called trinity made these statements?
Justin [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology
Chap. XXXVI. — Different Modes of Prophecy.​
But when you hear the utterances of the prophets spoken as it were personally, you must not suppose that they are spoken by the inspired themselves, but by the Divine Word who moves them. For sometimes He declares things that are to come to pass, in the manner of one who foretells the future; sometimes He speaks as from the person of God the Lord and Father of all; sometimes as from the person of Christ; sometimes as from the person of the people answering the Lord or His Father, just as you can see even in your own writers, one man being the writer of the whole, but introducing the persons who converse. And this the Jews who possessed the books of the prophets did not understand, and therefore did not recognise Christ even when He came, but even hate us who say that He has come, and who prove that, as was predicted, He was crucified by them.
For when the rulers of heaven saw Him of uncomely and dishonoured appearance, and inglorious, not recognising Him, they inquired, ‘Who is this King of glory?’ And the Holy Spirit, either from the person of His Father, or from His own person, answers them, ‘The Lord of hosts, He is this King of glory.’ For every one will confess that not one of those who presided over the gates of the temple at Jerusalem would venture to say concerning Solomon, though he was so glorious a king, or concerning the ark of testimony, ‘Who is this King of glory?’
Chap. XXXVII. — Utterances of the Father.​

And that this too may be clear to you, there were spoken from the person of the Father through Isaiah the prophet, the following words: “The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib; but Israel doth not know, and My people hath not understood. Woe, sinful nation, a people full of sins, a wicked seed, children that are transgressors, ye have forsaken the Lord.”47 And again elsewhere, when the same prophet speaks in like manner from the person of the Father, “What is the house that ye will build for Me?​
 

Μιχαήλ

New Member
Justin [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology
Chap. XXXVI. — Different Modes of Prophecy.​
But when you hear the utterances of the prophets spoken as it were personally, you must not suppose that they are spoken by the inspired themselves, but by the Divine Word who moves them. For sometimes He declares things that are to come to pass, in the manner of one who foretells the future; sometimes He speaks as from the person of God the Lord and Father of all; sometimes as from the person of Christ; sometimes as from the person of the people answering the Lord or His Father, just as you can see even in your own writers, one man being the writer of the whole, but introducing the persons who converse. And this the Jews who possessed the books of the prophets did not understand, and therefore did not recognise Christ even when He came, but even hate us who say that He has come, and who prove that, as was predicted, He was crucified by them.​
For when the rulers of heaven saw Him of uncomely and dishonoured appearance, and inglorious, not recognising Him, they inquired, ‘Who is this King of glory?’ And the Holy Spirit, either from the person of His Father, or from His own person, answers them, ‘The Lord of hosts, He is this King of glory.’ For every one will confess that not one of those who presided over the gates of the temple at Jerusalem would venture to say concerning Solomon, though he was so glorious a king, or concerning the ark of testimony, ‘Who is this King of glory?’​
Chap. XXXVII. — Utterances of the Father.​

And that this too may be clear to you, there were spoken from the person of the Father through Isaiah the prophet, the following words: “The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib; but Israel doth not know, and My people hath not understood. Woe, sinful nation, a people full of sins, a wicked seed, children that are transgressors, ye have forsaken the Lord.”47 And again elsewhere, when the same prophet speaks in like manner from the person of the Father, “What is the house that ye will build for Me?​
 
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