The so called "Trinity" does not exist!

Yahchristian

Well-known member
You answered your own question when you said, "Actually, there is no doubt in these verses that the angel (messenger) of the LORD is simply the LORD." So what is there to "explain?"

IN GOD THE SON,
james

Just to clarify your view...

Are you saying the LORD who swore by himself is a PERSON?

I think you are, but I would like for you to confirm that.

Genesis 22:16... And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
 

jamesh

Active member
You answered your own question when you said, "Actually, there is no doubt in these verses that the angel (messenger) of the LORD is simply the LORD." So what is there to "explain?"

IN GOD THE SON,
james

Just to clarify your view...

Are you saying the LORD who swore by himself is a PERSON?

I think you are, but I would like for you to confirm that.

Genesis 22:16... And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

Yes, the Lord who swore by Himself is a person. In this instance He is the person of the Son because the angel of the Lord is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ. Why would God not qualify as a person in your view?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Yes, the Lord who swore by Himself is a person. In this instance He is the person of the Son because the angel of the Lord is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ. Why would God not qualify as a person in your view?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
I believe the angel of the LORD is Gabriel.
Luke 1:11 makes himself and his identity known as Gabriel in Luke 1:19.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Why would God not qualify as a person in your view?

You do know “the LORD” in that verse is YHWH in Hebrew, right?

I DO believe the LORD is a Person. It is TRINITARIANS who often don’t.

So just to clarify YOUR Trinitarian view...

Is “the LORD alone” a Person?

Isaiah 2:11... The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

I say Yes.
 

101G

Well-known member
IOW BOTH The Son AND The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead.
GINOLJC, to all,
First, ERROR, and second ERROR, listen to the bible, Acts 13:33 "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

JG, JG, .... oh JG... did you hear the apostle? God is a "HE" .... drum roll please.... a single person ... "HE".

when are you going to believe God instead of your IGNORANT teachers? God is a "HE", not a they or them. JG, don't you know the ECHAD by NOW? ... guess Not.... when will you learn? I hope before it's too late.

now your second error. John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?"
John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body."

now JG, listen real Good to the very next verse.

John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

see it, they the disciple remembered that he said this, so why are you adding to the Word of GOD? ... "BOTH The Son AND The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead". see how you added that. the Lord Jesus never said that. see how you been decieved. the disciple believe because of the WORDS of the Lord JESUS. that's why they believe because they neither added nor taken away from the word of God. but you...... "added" to thew word of God,

the scriptures are true about YOU, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

so see ya... maybe.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

jamesh

Active member
I believe the angel of the LORD is Gabriel.
Luke 1:11 makes himself and his identity known as Gabriel in Luke 1:19.
No, it is impossible for the angel of the Lord to be Gabriel, Michael or any other angel for that matter. Angels "CANNOT" swear oaths on behalf of God. At Genesis 22:16-17 the angel of the Lord is speaking, "and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son, vs17, indeed I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall posses the gate of their enemies."

To back this up the writer of Hebrews refers to what the angel of the Lord stated at Hebrews 6:13-14,
For when GOD made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, HE SWORE BY HIMSELF, vs14, SAYING, I will surely bless you; and I will surely multiply you."

Also, notice what Hebrews 6:16 states. "For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute." This means for example that if you see a crime and are called to court to testify your swear an oath to God who is greater than you are. You would not send your Uncle Harry to court and have him swear the oath for you.

Now, angels can swear oaths, but it is on behalf of God. Revelation 10:5-6, "And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, vs6, and swore BY HIM who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth, and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there shall be delay no longer."

As a side note on this issue. The angel of the Lord who is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ "NEVER" appears in the New Testament, although he is mentioned in the NT by Stephen at Acts 7.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
No, it is impossible for the angel of the Lord to be Gabriel, Michael or any other angel for that matter. Angels "CANNOT" swear oaths on behalf of God. At Genesis 22:16-17 the angel of the Lord is speaking, "and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son, vs17, indeed I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall posses the gate of their enemies."

To back this up the writer of Hebrews refers to what the angel of the Lord stated at Hebrews 6:13-14,
For when GOD made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, HE SWORE BY HIMSELF, vs14, SAYING, I will surely bless you; and I will surely multiply you."

Also, notice what Hebrews 6:16 states. "For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute." This means for example that if you see a crime and are called to court to testify your swear an oath to God who is greater than you are. You would not send your Uncle Harry to court and have him swear the oath for you.

Now, angels can swear oaths, but it is on behalf of God. Revelation 10:5-6, "And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, vs6, and swore BY HIM who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth, and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there shall be delay no longer."

As a side note on this issue. The angel of the Lord who is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ "NEVER" appears in the New Testament, although he is mentioned in the NT by Stephen at Acts 7.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

James you are no longer ignorant, for you have been on this forum long enough and have heard many things that reveal that your doctrine is false and yet here you are once again, preaching and teaching your false doctrine about the angel of the Lord.

Hebrews 1:4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”

13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?


Hebrews 2:5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.



Now remember this James, the writer is speaking to Hebrews who were introduced to the truth that is in Jesus Christ and to many of whom were wanting to turn back to the OT after having been exposed to the NT fulfillment of all of that.

Therefore when he speaks of the angel's, he is referring to all in the OT who were called angels and including the prophets who were also messengers in the OT and that would include the angel of the Lord also and being it is the same Hebrew word.


So while you have no proof of a scripture at all that actually tells you that the angel of the Lord was Jesus, I just gave you plenty of them from the book of Hebrews that tells you that they weren't and you have seen these enough by now to remove any excuse that you have for teaching that the angel of the Lord was Jesus.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
The angel of the Lord who is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ "NEVER" appears in the New Testament, although he is mentioned in the NT by Stephen at Acts 7.

Matthew 1:20... But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
 

Andreas

Active member
The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, not same person as Jesus!

If you harmonize what the entire Bible says about the Holy Spirit, then you would not say this. For example, from Romans 8 we read that the terms Spirit, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of God, Spirit of him who raised Jesus form the dead dwells in you, his Spirit, and Christ in you all refer to the self same Spirit. There is one Spirit.

9You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

12So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

John 2:19 "Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

Jesus said, God is Spirit (John 4:24). To experience God's presence is to experience His Spirit. God is an everywhere present Spirit being (Psalm 139). The abiding Christ is the Holy Spirit (John 14).

Holiness is God's fundamental moral quality and Spirit is his substance or essence because God is not a physical being. The Holy Spirit is God Himself.

When God became man, his existence as Spirit didn't change, but was also specifically manifested in the flesh. The relationship between God and the Son was a relationship between God, as He has always existed and the genuine man Jesus Christ in whom God was manifested.
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
If you harmonize what the entire Bible says about the Holy Spirit, then you would not say this. For example, from Romans 8 we read that the terms Spirit, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of God, Spirit of him who raised Jesus form the dead dwells in you, his Spirit, and Christ in you all refer to the self same Spirit. There is one Spirit.

9You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

12So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

John 2:19 "Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

Jesus said, God is Spirit (John 4:24). To experience God's presence is to experience His Spirit. God is an everywhere present Spirit being (Psalm 139). The abiding Christ is the Holy Spirit (John 14).

Holiness is God's fundamental moral quality and Spirit is his substance or essence because God is not a physical being. The Holy Spirit is God Himself.

When God became man, his existence as Spirit didn't change, but was also specifically manifested in the flesh. The relationship between God and the Son was a relationship between God, as He has always existed and the genuine man Jesus Christ in whom God was manifested.
When the Lord Jesus has his Second Coming, will he be coming back as that father, Jesus, or as Holy Spirit?
 

jamesh

Active member
Matthew 1:20... But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
No again! The verse states "an" angel of the Lord appeared to him/Joseph in a dream. What you don't know is the fact that there is a
grammatical difference in the small words, "an/a" and "the."

"A/an" functions to connote a thing NOT previously noted or recognized, while "the" connotes" a thing previously noted or recognized. At Matthew 1:20 there is no name attached to the angel who appeared to Joseph. At Acts 7:30 Stephen says, "And after forty years had passed "AN" angel appeared to Him/Moses in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in the flames of a burning bush."

Then at Acts 7:38 Stephen says, "This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness together with "YHE" angel who w2as speaking to him on Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers; and he received living oracle3s to pass on to you." This event or appearing that Stephen is talking about took place at Exodus 3. Notice Exodus 3:2, "And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of the bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was not consumed."

Verse 3, So Moses said, I must turn aside now, and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up." Verse 4, "WHEN THE LORD SAW THAT HE TURNED ASIDE TO LOOK, GOD CALLED TO HIM FROM THE MIDST OF THE BUSH, AND SAID, "Moses, Moses!" Try again Yahchristian. In fact, you give me any verse in the Bible and I will tell you if it's "THE" angel of the Lord or "AN/A" angel of the Lord.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
No, it is impossible for the angel of the Lord to be Gabriel, Michael or any other angel for that matter. Angels "CANNOT" swear oaths on behalf of God. At Genesis 22:16-17 the angel of the Lord is speaking, "and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son, vs17, indeed I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall posses the gate of their enemies."

To back this up the writer of Hebrews refers to what the angel of the Lord stated at Hebrews 6:13-14,
For when GOD made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, HE SWORE BY HIMSELF, vs14, SAYING, I will surely bless you; and I will surely multiply you."

Also, notice what Hebrews 6:16 states. "For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute." This means for example that if you see a crime and are called to court to testify your swear an oath to God who is greater than you are. You would not send your Uncle Harry to court and have him swear the oath for you.

Now, angels can swear oaths, but it is on behalf of God. Revelation 10:5-6, "And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, vs6, and swore BY HIM who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth, and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there shall be delay no longer."

As a side note on this issue. The angel of the Lord who is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ "NEVER" appears in the New Testament, although he is mentioned in the NT by Stephen at Acts 7.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
Abraham would already have known the pre-incarnate and he wouldn't be the angel of the Lord. He had seen, heard, fed and walked with the LORD before He called down fire and brimstone from the LORD out of Heaven.

15¶And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

"saith the LORD" to me means the angel is giving the words that God has given.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
No again! The verse states "an" angel of the Lord appeared to him/Joseph in a dream. What you don't know is the fact that there is a
grammatical difference in the small words, "an/a" and "the."

"A/an" functions to connote a thing NOT previously noted or recognized, while "the" connotes" a thing previously noted or recognized. At Matthew 1:20 there is no name attached to the angel who appeared to Joseph. At Acts 7:30 Stephen says, "And after forty years had passed "AN" angel appeared to Him/Moses in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in the flames of a burning bush."

Then at Acts 7:38 Stephen says, "This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness together with "YHE" angel who w2as speaking to him on Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers; and he received living oracle3s to pass on to you." This event or appearing that Stephen is talking about took place at Exodus 3. Notice Exodus 3:2, "And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of the bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was not consumed."

Verse 3, So Moses said, I must turn aside now, and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up." Verse 4, "WHEN THE LORD SAW THAT HE TURNED ASIDE TO LOOK, GOD CALLED TO HIM FROM THE MIDST OF THE BUSH, AND SAID, "Moses, Moses!" Try again Yahchristian. In fact, you give me any verse in the Bible and I will tell you if it's "THE" angel of the Lord or "AN/A" angel of the Lord.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
There are big problems with what you are pushing here James.

For indeed it was the same Moses who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel who was speaking to him in the burning bush and by whom also he received the oracles for life (the commandments of God) and if you want to believe the angel is God, that is one thing but it totally another to try and say that this was Jesus.

For again the book of Hebrews reveals that God never spoke by his Son in the OT, not by the prophets and nor by the angels either and not at all period.


Furthermore, the law didn't come from Jesus but it came by Moses from God through the angel and it therefore couldn't have been Jesus who gave it to Moses either, for John said this in his Gospel, "for the law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


So where does it say that Jesus or the Logos called to him from the burning bush Jamish and where does it tell you anywhere in the OT or NT that any of those appearances and visitation were those of Jesus, where did any NT writer reveal this in their writings?
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
No again! The verse states "an" angel of the Lord appeared to him/Joseph in a dream. What you don't know is the fact that there is a
grammatical difference in the small words, "an/a" and "the."

"A/an" functions to connote a thing NOT previously noted or recognized, while "the" connotes" a thing previously noted or recognized. At Matthew 1:20 there is no name attached to the angel who appeared to Joseph. At Acts 7:30 Stephen says, "And after forty years had passed "AN" angel appeared to Him/Moses in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in the flames of a burning bush."

Then at Acts 7:38 Stephen says, "This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness together with "YHE" angel who w2as speaking to him on Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers; and he received living oracle3s to pass on to you." This event or appearing that Stephen is talking about took place at Exodus 3. Notice Exodus 3:2, "And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of the bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was not consumed."

Verse 3, So Moses said, I must turn aside now, and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up." Verse 4, "WHEN THE LORD SAW THAT HE TURNED ASIDE TO LOOK, GOD CALLED TO HIM FROM THE MIDST OF THE BUSH, AND SAID, "Moses, Moses!" Try again Yahchristian. In fact, you give me any verse in the Bible and I will tell you if it's "THE" angel of the Lord or "AN/A" angel of the Lord.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
There are big problems with what you are pushing here James.

For indeed it was the same Moses who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel who was speaking to him in the burning bush and by whom also he received the oracles for life (the commandments of God) and if you want to believe the angel is God, that is one thing but it is totally another to try and say that this was Jesus.

For again the book of Hebrews reveals that God never spoke by his Son in the OT, not by the prophets and nor by the angels either and not at all period.


Furthermore, the law didn't come from Jesus but it came by Moses from God through the angel and it therefore couldn't have been Jesus who gave it to Moses either, for John said this in his Gospel, "for the law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


So where does it say that Jesus or the Logos called to him from the burning bush Jamish and where does it tell you anywhere in the OT or NT that any of those appearances and visitation were those of Jesus, where did any NT writer reveal this in their writings?
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all,
First, ERROR, and second ERROR, listen to the bible, Acts 13:33 "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

JG, JG, .... oh JG... did you hear the apostle? God is a "HE" .... drum roll please.... a single person ... "HE".

when are you going to believe God instead of your IGNORANT teachers? God is a "HE", not a they or them. JG, don't you know the ECHAD by NOW? ... guess Not.... when will you learn? I hope before it's too late.

now your second error. John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?"
John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body."

now JG, listen real Good to the very next verse.

John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

see it, they the disciple remembered that he said this, so why are you adding to the Word of GOD? ... "BOTH The Son AND The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead". see how you added that. the Lord Jesus never said that. see how you been decieved. the disciple believe because of the WORDS of the Lord JESUS. that's why they believe because they neither added nor taken away from the word of God. but you...... "added" to thew word of God,

the scriptures are true about YOU, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" 2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

so see ya... maybe.

PICJAG, 101G.
Jesus Christ was raised from the dead by The Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11.
Time for you to believe the Scriptures.
 

101G

Well-known member
Jesus Christ was raised from the dead by The Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11.
Time for you to believe the Scriptures.
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

so who dwells in US? ... LAST CHANCE TO UNDERSTAND THE "ECHAD", LISTEN and LEARN,
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." (HELLO, anyone HOME?, read that again).
John 14:19 "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also."
John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (say what I, I, I, where? in you, read that again. for I and my Father are ONE)
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." (LISTEN TO WHAT jUDAS AS IN THE NEXT VERSE).
John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"
John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

two things to notice here,

A. the WE, and the OUR sound like Genesis 1:26 where God said, "Let US make man in OUR Image". did you notice that? i'll explaine later.

B. the term "ABODE", it is the Greek word,
G3438 μονή mone (mo-nee') adj.
a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place).
[from G3306]
KJV: abode, mansion
Root(s): G3306

a staying? what did the Lord Jesus say to his deciples when he rose? listen and Learn, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

so J\G, how is the Lord Jesus with us, ecen unto the end of the World? how... answer by his Spirit.

now to answer A. ... I'll ne short.

"The WE in John 14:23"

Foundation Scripture: John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

Teaching Scripture A: John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Teaching Scripture B: John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

Who actually sent the Holy Spirit, and who was it that came? Answer, JESUS, but, so "who is the WE”, in John 14:23? "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." here is that same answer in another way,

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." GLORIFY? how? with thine OWNself. and that OWNSELF is “Spirit, per John 4:24a

but the Lord Jesus said, “with” thine own self, there is that word, "WITH", again.. as in John 1:1 the Word was "With" God, and John 1:1c, "and was God...... his "Spirit is God... the Ordinal FIRST, Oh how sinple, and the first is "with" the last. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." meaning that the First, the Father, the Root, the Alpha, the Beginning is also the Last the Son...... Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." THIS IS THE "WE" IN JOHN 14:23. the "OUR", the First/Father, and the Last/Son is the Spirit. supportive scripture, Revelation 2:7a, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches” but was it not the Lord Jesus speaking to the churches?

now to prove it clearly, you used the book of Romans, correct... Romans 8:11, well so will i use the the same book to CORRECT YOU, listen and learn, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

NOW JG, here is where you fail or NOT, .... The Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ, and please note, that both Spirit is in capitalizations, (this is why I perfer the KJV), remember GOD is "A", "A", "A", "A", Spirit, meaning ONE Spirit, so JG, is the Spirit of God, and the the Spirit of Christ... "TWO" separate and distinct... "Spirits? ..... your answer Please. .. I hope you're not that IGNORANT.

so I'll be looking for your answer..... :eek: YIKES!.

PICJAG, 101G.

oh how easy it is to understand "diversity" of God.

that we is "he", the ordinal FIRST, LORD/FATHER, and the ordinal LAST, Lord/SON....... the ONE TRUE GOD, the Lord JESUS, the Holy Spirit
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

so who dwells in US? ... LAST CHANCE TO UNDERSTAND THE "ECHAD", LISTEN and LEARN,
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." (HELLO, anyone HOME?, read that again).
John 14:19 "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also."
John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (say what I, I, I, where? in you, read that again. for I and my Father are ONE)
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." (LISTEN TO WHAT jUDAS AS IN THE NEXT VERSE).
John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"
John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

two things to notice here,

A. the WE, and the OUR sound like Genesis 1:26 where God said, "Let US make man in OUR Image". did you notice that? i'll explaine later.

B. the term "ABODE", it is the Greek word,
G3438 μονή mone (mo-nee') adj.
a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place).
[from G3306]
KJV: abode, mansion
Root(s): G3306

a staying? what did the Lord Jesus say to his deciples when he rose? listen and Learn, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

so J\G, how is the Lord Jesus with us, ecen unto the end of the World? how... answer by his Spirit.

now to answer A. ... I'll ne short.

"The WE in John 14:23"

Foundation Scripture: John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

Teaching Scripture A: John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Teaching Scripture B: John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

Who actually sent the Holy Spirit, and who was it that came? Answer, JESUS, but, so "who is the WE”, in John 14:23? "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." here is that same answer in another way,

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." GLORIFY? how? with thine OWNself. and that OWNSELF is “Spirit, per John 4:24a

but the Lord Jesus said, “with” thine own self, there is that word, "WITH", again.. as in John 1:1 the Word was "With" God, and John 1:1c, "and was God...... his "Spirit is God... the Ordinal FIRST, Oh how sinple, and the first is "with" the last. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." meaning that the First, the Father, the Root, the Alpha, the Beginning is also the Last the Son...... Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." THIS IS THE "WE" IN JOHN 14:23. the "OUR", the First/Father, and the Last/Son is the Spirit. supportive scripture, Revelation 2:7a, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches” but was it not the Lord Jesus speaking to the churches?

now to prove it clearly, you used the book of Romans, correct... Romans 8:11, well so will i use the the same book to CORRECT YOU, listen and learn, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

NOW JG, here is where you fail or NOT, .... The Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ, and please note, that both Spirit is in capitalizations, (this is why I perfer the KJV), remember GOD is "A", "A", "A", "A", Spirit, meaning ONE Spirit, so JG, is the Spirit of God, and the the Spirit of Christ... "TWO" separate and distinct... "Spirits? ..... your answer Please. .. I hope you're not that IGNORANT.

so I'll be looking for your answer..... :eek: YIKES!.

PICJAG, 101G.

oh how easy it is to understand "diversity" of God.

that we is "he", the ordinal FIRST, LORD/FATHER, and the ordinal LAST, Lord/SON....... the ONE TRUE GOD, the Lord JESUS, the Holy Spirit
The Spirit of God, The Spirit of Christ= The Holy Spirit.
Easy to understand indeed.
 

101G

Well-known member
The Spirit of God, The Spirit of Christ= The Holy Spirit.
Easy to understand indeed.
yes, ONE PERSON, who is Jesus the Almighty, and ONLY TRUE God. that is EASY to UNDERSTAND. so why so LONG to understand? ... Oh well ....

JG always remember Jesus the Son is the Ordinal Last, who is God shared in Flesh, and Jesus the ordinal First is God, title holder "FATHER", the SAME ONE PERSON, as said, only "shared in Flesh,

and this is identified in the OT as the "ECHAD", or in the NT , the G243 Allos, read that definition from the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words simply put in Latman's terms, "God SHARED in Flesh", God is with US, how? in Flesh as we're, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

and Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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