The so called "Trinity" does not exist!

OldShepherd

Well-known member
he could. by taking on human flesh and sinless human nature in the incarnation!
I said "If Jesus was actually, literally God's Son He could not be mere man." What do you think Jesus was before He took on human flesh? I say He was God and as John 1:14 says He, acting on Himself, became flesh. But in so doing Jesus did not become not God.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
When we lie to The Holy Spirit we are lying to(Drumroll)The Holy Spirit.
Case closed.
Acts 5:3-4
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
 

cjab

Well-known member
I said "If Jesus was actually, literally God's Son He could not be mere man."
Depends what you mean by "mere man."

Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man"

He was just a man, but a man with a different origin. The Hebrew "son" of course denotes a human being rather than a Greek emanation.

What do you think Jesus was before He took on human flesh? I say He was God and as John 1:14 says He, acting on Himself, became flesh. But in so doing Jesus did not become not God.
 
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johnny guitar

Well-known member
Depends what you mean by "mere man."

Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man"

He was just a man, but a man with a different origin. The Hebrew "son" of course denotes a human being rather than a Greek emanation.
The Son of God does NOT denote a Man; it denotes a DIVINE Person.
Greek emanation?????What do you mean by this asinine statement????
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
I think he meant "naturally" rather than "literally." The idea is that coming from a womb denotes a natural son of God, as opposed to adopted sons of God that is the most that believers can ever be.
NO ONE is a natural son of God by coming from the womb.
Jesus Christ, HOWEVER, was The LITERAL Son of God in Mary's womb.
 

cjab

Well-known member
NO ONE is a natural son of God by coming from the womb.
Jesus Christ, HOWEVER, was The LITERAL Son of God in Mary's womb.
Literal meaning:
"taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or exaggeration."
"free from exaggeration or distortion"
"absolute"

Of David it was said in Ps 89:

26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father,
my God, the Rock my Savior.’
27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
28 I will maintain my love to him forever,
and my covenant with him will never fail.

So basically, you're saying God was lying when he labelled others as his sons?
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Literal meaning:
"taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or exaggeration."
"free from exaggeration or distortion"
"absolute"

Of David it was said in Ps 89:

26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father,
my God, the Rock my Savior.’
27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
28 I will maintain my love to him forever,
and my covenant with him will never fail.

So basically, you're saying God was lying when he labelled others as his sons?
But ONLY ONE is THE SON of God: Jesus Christ.
And ONLY ONE was THE Son of God in the womb of His mother.
 

cjab

Well-known member
The Son of God does NOT denote a Man; it denotes a DIVINE Person.
Greek emanation?????What do you mean by this asinine statement????
A "son" denotes a Man
"Of God" denotes either the natural son (i.e. Jesus), or an adopted son.
monogenes denotes Jesus (the natural son)
 

Μιχαήλ

New Member
Evidently, you would rather engage in snide remarks than an honest discussion.

Agreed. Why are you posting claims I haven't made? Perhaps you might try and reply to what I'm actually posting rather than these Strawman posts.

If you would rather make up brand new definitions for words, I'm going to have to pass. Here is the commonly accepted definition of the term. Person:
[ˈpərs(ə)n]

NOUN

  1. a human being regarded as an individual.
    "the porter was the last person to see her" · 
    [more]
    synonyms:
    human being · individual · 
    [more]
  2. grammar
    a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker (first person), the addressee (second person), or a third party (third person).
  3. christian theology
    each of the three modes of being of God, namely the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, who together constitute the Trinity.

False. See the definition above.

Also known as "the breath of life". This is not who anyone is, but is the animating force of their life. God breathes into the dirt he formed, and Adam becomes a living soul. That's who Adam is. He is neither the dirt formed, nor the breath of life that animates his life.
Nothing snide about it, just curious of the origin of your persona/mask rubbish. Furthermore, you saying that “Christ is God personified” implied that you think having a physical body is what makes one a person. When there are multiple definitions of a specific word, the context in which that word is used determines its actual meaning. The ontological definition of person applies in this context, it isn’t something I made up.

person
[ pur-suhn ]

See synonyms for: person / people / persons on Thesaurus.com

noun

5. Philosophy. a self-conscious or rational being.


https://www.dictionary.com/browse/person

per·son

(pûr′sən)

n.

3. The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self.


Thesaurus

Noun 1. person…

causal agency, causal agent, cause - any entity that produces an effect or is responsible for events or results

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/person


Hebrews 1:3

‎hós oón apaúgasma teés dóxees kaí charakteér teés HUPOSTÁSEOOS… GNT (NA27 Transliterated [simplified])

He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His NATURE… NASU

The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his ESSENCE… NET Bible

…being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His PERSON… NKJV

The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his BEING… NIV

…who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his SUBSTANCE… ASV


NT:5287 ὑπόστασις ‎hupostasis (hoop-os'-tas-is); from a compound of NT:5259 and NT:2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively):


KJV - confidence, confident, person, substance.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


NT:5287* hupostasis, hupostaseoos, hee


1. a setting or placing under; thing put under, substructure, foundation:


2. that which has foundation, is firm;


a. that which has actual existence; a substance, real being:


b. the substantial quality, nature, of any person or thing: Hebrews 1:3


(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


hypostasis​

[ hahy-pos-tuh-sis, hi- ]

noun, plural hy·pos·ta·ses [hahy-pos-tuh-seez, hi-].

  • Metaphysics.

  • something that stands under and supports; foundation.

  • the underlying or essential part of anything as distinguished from attributes; substance, essence, or essential principle.

The human spirit isn’t merely an “animating force,” but is an incorporeal, self-aware entity that survives death. This incorporeal entity or consciousness is separated from our physical existence after death.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 …if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Corinthians 15:20 …Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming… 50 …flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed…

Revelation 6:9 I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

Revelation 20:4 I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Nevertheless, John 4:24 states that “God is spirit,” which isn’t incompatible with His being regarded as a person. He speaks as a person and interacts with humans as a person, so if He isn’t a person who is spiritual in nature, then what is He? Other than personal and impersonal, in what logically possible form could a spirit exist? It’s quite clear that YHWH isn’t impersonal, so He must be a spirit who is also a person. God is a divine consciousness or entity who possesses moral, intellectual, and emotional characteristics or qualities; therefore, He is the paradigmatic example of a person.
 
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