The Source/ Origin of Salvific Faith

civic

Well-known member
Can only come from God, not man !

1 Cor 4:7

7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

John 3:27 -
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Romans 12:3

3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Gal 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 6:23
Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Phil 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him

2Pet 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy. 1 :14
The grace
of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

(faith is given out by God along with his grace)

Acts. 18 :27 - When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed

(it is through God's grace that people believe)

Acts. 13 :48 As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life, believed.

hope this helps !!!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Can only come from God, not man !

1 Cor 4:7

7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

John 3:27 -
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Romans 12:3

3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Gal 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 6:23
Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Phil 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him

2Pet 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy. 1 :14
The grace
of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

(faith is given out by God along with his grace)

Acts. 18 :27 - When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed

(it is through God's grace that people believe)

Acts. 13 :48 As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life, believed.

hope this helps !!!
God gives man the ability to believe

But men can believe in Allah, the book of Mormon, The goddess a whole host of things

Is God effectually causing such belief ?

No. Man was given the capacity to believe but how he exercises it is up to him

1 Cor 4:7
7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

In context this has nothing to do with saving faith

1 Cor. 4:6 —KJV
“And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.”

John 3:27 -
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Indeed the capacity to believe comes from God but men exercise that capacity in different ways

Romans 12:3

3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

In context this concerns not saving faith but faith for ministry gifts


Rom. 12:4–8 —KJV
“For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.”

If everyman has a measure of this faith and it refers to saving faith why is it they do not believe

The passage is self refuting if seen in the light of saving faith



Gal 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

This does not concern saving faith but faith to life the Christian life
and fidelity is the point of the above translation

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The gift is salvation by grace through faith

The phrase the gift of faith does not exist in the bible


Phil 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him

Grant yes but grant is not the same as effectually causing

God gives the ability for faith the opportunity for faith and influence for faith

But it is still man who must believe



2Pet 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

This concerns the substance of the like precious faith as Alford notes

like precious faith (faith,—i. e. substance of truth believed: faith objective, not subjective, Alford

1 Timothy. 1 :14
The grace
of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

God works to bring men to faith and love as well but he is not unilaterally infusing faith or love in man

Acts. 18 :27 - When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed

Yes grace is required to believe but it is still man who believes

Believing is not something passively received but something man must actively perform as the greek active voice of the verb indicates in salvation texts


Faith is is seen great or small, something Christ marveled at, castigating it when it was small honoring it when it was great

Rebuking the lack of it

Does it makes sense that Christ responds in such a manner to what is God's gift or the withholding of it ?

Why are men warned to not harden their hearts when they hear the word of God if God was unilaterally giving or withholding faith
 

civic

Well-known member
God gives man the ability to believe

But men can believe in Allah, the book of Mormon, The goddess a whole host of things

Is God effectually causing such belief ?

No. Man was given the capacity to believe but how he exercises it is up to him

1 Cor 4:7
7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

In context this has nothing to do with saving faith

1 Cor. 4:6 —KJV
“And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.”

John 3:27 -
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Indeed the capacity to believe comes from God but men exercise that capacity in different ways

Romans 12:3

3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

In context this concerns not saving faith but faith for ministry gifts


Rom. 12:4–8 —KJV
“For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.”

If everyman has a measure of this faith and it refers to saving faith why is it they do not believe

The passage is self refuting if seen in the light of saving faith



Gal 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

This does not concern saving faith but faith to life the Christian life
and fidelity is the point of the above translation

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The gift is salvation by grace through faith

The phrase the gift of faith does not exist in the bible


Phil 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him

Grant yes but grant is not the same as effectually causing

God gives the ability for faith the opportunity for faith and influence for faith

But it is still man who must believe



2Pet 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

This concerns the substance of the like precious faith as Alford notes

like precious faith (faith,—i. e. substance of truth believed: faith objective, not subjective, Alford

1 Timothy. 1 :14
The grace
of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

God works to bring men to faith and love as well but he is not unilaterally infusing faith or love in man

Acts. 18 :27 - When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed

Yes grace is required to believe but it is still man who believes

Believing is not something passively received but something man must actively perform as the greek active voice of the verb indicates in salvation texts


Faith is is seen great or small, something Christ marveled at, castigating it when it was small honoring it when it was great

Rebuking the lack of it

Does it makes sense that Christ responds in such a manner to what is God's gift or the withholding of it ?

Why are men warned to not harden their hearts when they hear the word of God if God was unilaterally giving or withholding faith
And I would say that you are asking all the wrong questions. The topic is faith and where it comes from not all the other questions you have brought up but the 1 single question of its origin.

What do you have that you did not receive from God ?

1- God Allots it
2- its a gift
3- it comes from God
4- it has been granted on behalf of Christ
5- the Lord poured out both His grace and faith

So the Scriptures I posted are clear that faith comes form God and not man.

I don't need to know why, reason why some receive it while others do not, not object to Gods grace since He is on His Throne and still Sovereign and in control over His creation do do as He pleases with man and that included the faith which comes form Him to believe and trust in Him.

Like I always say Salvation is of, by, through and for the Lord. He saves us, keeps us saved and will see it through to its completion.

I have nothing to boast in, take credit for which included the ability to believe in Him for salvation.

hope this helps !!!
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Can only come from God, not man !

1 Cor 4:7

7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

Paul is talking about the wisdom of God. Try reading the context.

John 3:27 -
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

John is talking about Jesus. See James 1:17 for more help.

Romans 12:3
3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Gal 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

And? Galatians 3:2 is still going to say that receiving the Spirit was a result of faith.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

And? This is basic reading comprehension. Faith is not the gift but the means of the gift.

9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 6:23
Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

WHAT?

Phil 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him


This is true of everyone who has heard the Gospel.

2Pet 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Faith in Jesus as opposed to faith in anything else. Why isn't that plain to you?

1 Timothy. 1 :14
The grace
of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

(faith is given out by God along with his grace)

Do you not understand that Paul is talking about faith in Christ toward God?

Acts. 18 :27 - When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed

(it is through God's grace that people believe)

Where O where did you get the notion that this had something to do with the ABILITY to believe but in your vain imagination?

Acts. 13 :48 As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life, believed.

hope this helps !!!

The Gentiles were APPOINTED to receive the Gospel of eternal life upon Jewish rejection. It's there in your Bible if you actually would read it and learn from it.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
And I would say that you are asking all the wrong questions. The topic is faith and where it comes from not all the other questions you have brought up but the 1 single question of its origin.

They all concern faith

If faith comes from God

then faith in Allah must be from God

faith in the book of Mormon from God

I do not see how it can be denied man has a God given ability which may be exercised in various ways

and that is in the purview of man
What do you have that you did not receive from God ?

1- God Allots it
2- its a gift
3- it comes from God
4- it has been granted on behalf of Christ
5- the Lord poured out both His grace and faith

So the Scriptures I posted are clear that faith comes form God and not man.
I think we are going to have to disagree here

God gives the ability for faith and opportunity for faith and influence for but he does not believe for man

The bible never states saving faith is allotted.

Never speaks of the gift of saving faith

To grant is not to effectually cause

Paul was allowed or granted to suffer for Christ not irresistibly caused to suffer

Saving Faith is granted through the gospel and influence of God upon a mans heart but it is not irresistibly infusedn

not one verse in the bible when speaking of faith for salvation ever notes

man passively receives faith rather he is actively stated to believe

God works to influence - convince but man is still the one who must believe
 

civic

Well-known member
God gives man the ability to believe

But men can believe in Allah, the book of Mormon, The goddess a whole host of things

Is God effectually causing such belief ?

No. Man was given the capacity to believe but how he exercises it is up to him
I'm specifically speaking about Salvific faith in the OP. So the answer is yes from the Scriptures posted where faith and salvation are linked together coming from God and not man.
 

civic

Well-known member

Gal 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

4102. pistis
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness​
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

HELPS Word-studies
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.
Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will


So where does the fruit of the Spirit come from God or man ?
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member

Gal 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

4102. pistis
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness​
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

HELPS Word-studies
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.
Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will


So where does the fruit of the Spirit come from God or man ?
Man. 🙄
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member

Gal 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires

4102. pistis
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness​
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

HELPS Word-studies
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.
Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will


So where does the fruit of the Spirit come from God or man ?
Man has to open the door to allow God to give them their God-given faith. That way they can rejoice when they shout, “I praise God for saving me, after I let Him.
 

civic

Well-known member
And actually in Galatians 5:22 I must give the KJV their props for being faithful in translating Galatians 5:22 below which is the literal translation of pistis.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, :)
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
And actually in Galatians 5:22 I must give the KJV their props for being faithful in translating Galatians 5:22 below which is the literal translation of pistis.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, :)
But you can’t have faithfulness w/o faith. So either translation will suffice.
 

civic

Well-known member
But you can’t have faithfulness w/o faith. So either translation will suffice.
agreed but there are some who will twist faithfulness there to a meaning that is not salvific and that we must remain faithful but as we know that is the opposite of Gal 5:22 and its meaning.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
agreed but there are some who will twist faithfulness there to a meaning that is not salvific and that we must remain faithful but as we know that is the opposite of Gal 5:22 and its meaning.
I love this verse, If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.[2 Timothy 2:13] That even in times of weakness, He is still there leading us. As He said, “I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,”[Hebrews 13:5]
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I'm specifically speaking about Salvific faith in the OP. So the answer is yes from the Scriptures posted where faith and salvation are linked together coming from God and not man.
Not in the sense you mean it. Regarding salvific faith God gives the ability to believe, the opportunity to believe and influence to believe but God does not believe for man or effectually (irresistibly) infuse faith. Man must do the believing but he may resist, refuse or suppress the truth

If faith was something men could not do or it was something irresistibly given a whole lot of scripture and reality would make no sense

Why would there be warnings about hardening your heart when you hear God's word

Heb. 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Heb. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb. 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Heb. 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts

Why would God need to prevent men from believing by various methods

God’s hardening of hearts

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Speaking to men in Parables

Matt. 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Matt. 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Matt. 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Matt. 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.



Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Commands not to tell anyone

Mark 3:12 And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known.

Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

Mark 8:30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.

Men and their relation to truth

They resist, Suppress the truth

Rom. 1:18 —KJV

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;”

Refuse to receive

Heb. 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

2Th. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Jer. 18:7–12 —KJV

¶ Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.”

As noted men place their faith in many things and they do not needs to irresistibly be caused to believe
 

civic

Well-known member
Not in the sense you mean it. Regarding salvific faith God gives the ability to believe, the opportunity to believe and influence to believe but God does not believe for man or effectually (irresistibly) infuse faith. Man must do the believing but he may resist, refuse or suppress the truth

If faith was something men could not do or it was something irresistibly given a whole lot of scripture and reality would make no sense

Why would there be warnings about hardening your heart when you hear God's word

Heb. 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Heb. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb. 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Heb. 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts

Why would God need to prevent men from believing by various methods

God’s hardening of hearts

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Speaking to men in Parables

Matt. 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Matt. 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Matt. 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Matt. 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.



Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Commands not to tell anyone

Mark 3:12 And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known.

Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

Mark 8:30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.

Men and their relation to truth

They resist, Suppress the truth

Rom. 1:18 —KJV

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;”

Refuse to receive

Heb. 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

2Th. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Jer. 18:7–12 —KJV

¶ Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.”

As noted men place their faith in many things and they do not needs to irresistibly be caused to believe
I have never said God believes for us but that saving faith is a gift like every other gift granted by Him through His mercy and His grace.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I have never said God believes for us but that saving faith is a gift like every other gift granted by Him through His mercy and His grace.
The bible never states saving faith is a gift

If you want to say God has gifted us in giving us the ability to have faith and giving us opportunity for faith and influence for faith I would happily agree. If however it is claimed God irresistibly causes faith in some and withholds it in other I would sadly disagree
 

civic

Well-known member
The bible never states saving faith is a gift

If you want to say God has gifted us in giving us the ability to have faith and giving us opportunity for faith and influence for faith I would happily agree. If however it is claimed God irresistibly causes faith in some and withholds it in other I would sadly disagree
well I beg to differ unless you are saying not a single passage in the OP says faith is given/granted by God ?

how is something God gives or grants not a gift ?
 
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