The Strong Delusion, 2 Thessalonians 2:11

Hark

Well-known member
First thanks for the reply, second, Jesus the Son is over his "OWN" house which we we are in, and in his house there is no iniquity, nor any Law of condemnation,
Thank you for sharing.

I point out 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 in how our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, hence sealed.

1 Corinthians 3:10-17 warns believers how they build on that foundation; obviously the wood, stubble, and hay are the offenses that will be burned off, as the consequence for not departing from iniquity is to die a physical death in that day when God judges His House per each believer.

I agree with your statement but you need to apply Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit...". and since sowing to the flesh reaps corruption thus defiling the temple of God, then our bodies reap the consequence of a physical death by being left behind as those in Revelation 2:18-25 confirms this casting out into the bed of the coming great tribulation for not repenting and thus incurring death for their works on that foundation..

Luke 12:40-49 warns believers of the consequence for not being ready as they will be cut off & left in the world with that fire coming on the earth.

This said God's judgment of fire on the earth was be warned by Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-18 & John in Revelation 8:9

John 15:1-8 noting verse 6 is Jesus warning His disciples that when they stop abiding in Him, they will be cut off,.. unless they repent with His help, of course before the Bridegroom comes.

That is why those left behind still have His seal; even former believers; for even though He denies them for denying Him verbally or by their works, He still abides. That is why we are to call even former believers to repent so the too can obtain the eternal glory that cmes with our salvation and that is to be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Verse 20 testifies that those who do not depart from iniquity, will become vessels unto dishonor in Hs House; this is a damnation for once left behind from the Marriage Supper, they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House, BUT they are in His House for when they die spiritually waiting for later on when resurrected after the great tribulation to serve Him as king of kings on earth.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
Thank you for sharing.

However I point out 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 in how our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, hence sealed.

1 Corinthians 3:10-17 warns believers how they build on that foundation; obviously the wood, stubble, and hay are the offenses that will be burned off, as the consequence for not departing from iniquity is to die a physical death in that day when God judges His House per each believer.

Revelation 2:18-25 confirms this casting out into the bed of the coming great tribulation for not repenting.

Luke 12:40-49 warns believers of the consequence for not being ready as they will be cut off & left in the world with that fire coming on the earth.

This said God's judgment of fire on the earth was be warned by Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-18 & John in Revelation 8:9

John 15:1-8 noting verse 6 is Jesus warning His disciples that when they stop abiding in Him, they will be cut off,.. unless they repent with His help, of course before the Bridegroom comes.

That is why those left behind still have His seal; even former believers; for even though He denies them for denying Him verbally or by their works, He still abides. That is why we are to call even former believers to repent so the too can obtain the eternal glory that cmes with our salvation and that is to be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Verse 20 testifies that those who do not depart from iniquity, will become vessels unto dishonor in Hs House; this is a damnation for once left behind from the Marriage Supper, they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House, BUT they are in His House.
There is no (Pre-Trib Rapture) found in the scripture as you suggest

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh
.

As previously stated, you must be sealed by the Holy Spirit to be saved, this seal is until the day of redemption (Eternal Security) before your eyes, Gods words below are true

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


John 10:27-30KJV
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
Thank you for sharing.

However I point out 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 in how our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, hence sealed.

1 Corinthians 3:10-17 warns believers how they build on that foundation; obviously the wood, stubble, and hay are the offenses that will be burned off, as the consequence for not departing from iniquity is to die a physical death in that day when God judges His House per each believer.

Revelation 2:18-25 confirms this casting out into the bed of the coming great tribulation for not repenting.

Luke 12:40-49 warns believers of the consequence for not being ready as they will be cut off & left in the world with that fire coming on the earth.

This said God's judgment of fire on the earth was be warned by Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-18 & John in Revelation 8:9

John 15:1-8 noting verse 6 is Jesus warning His disciples that when they stop abiding in Him, they will be cut off,.. unless they repent with His help, of course before the Bridegroom comes.

That is why those left behind still have His seal; even former believers; for even though He denies them for denying Him verbally or by their works, He still abides. That is why we are to call even former believers to repent so the too can obtain the eternal glory that cmes with our salvation and that is to be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Verse 20 testifies that those who do not depart from iniquity, will become vessels unto dishonor in Hs House; this is a damnation for once left behind from the Marriage Supper, they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House, BUT they are in His House.
There are (Two Groups) within the world, (Saved Sealed Church) & (Unsaved World)

As previously stated, you must be sealed by the Holy Spirit to be saved, this seal is until the day of redemption (Eternal Security) before your eyes, Gods words below are true

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


John 10:27-30KJV
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
 

Hark

Well-known member
There is no (Pre-Trib Rapture) found in the scripture as you suggest
There is for why Jesus warns the believers and the 7 churches in Revelations to be ready or else like in Revelation 2:18-25 where they will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation to die for their works of iniquity on that believer's foundation, unless they repent before He comes as the Bridegroom to receive only those saved believers found abiding in Him to the Marriage Supper above..

If you read Luke 21:34-36 & Luke 17:26-37 & Luke 14:15-24, Jesus is not describing the end of the great tribulation when Satan is waging a war on the saints thru out that great tribulation and at the end, marching the world's armies against Jerusalem. Jesus described the times the saints are living in as stress free as in the days of Noah & Sodom & Gomorrah where they can be tempted to love their lives more on earth that they would not want to leave.

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh
.

As previously stated, you must be sealed by the Holy Spirit to be saved, this seal is until the day of redemption (Eternal Security) before your eyes, Gods words below are true

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


John 10:27-30KJV
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
There are consequences for those saints that remain as former believers, or in works of iniquity that deny Him, as they will be excommunicated as in disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper held in Heaven when the Bridegroom comes; see Luke 13:24-30. This is what running that race is all about as we can only run it and live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ but not every saved believer is looking to Jesus as their Good Shepherd & friend to help them lay aside every weight & sin in abiding in Him, walking in the light in fellowship with Him.

That is why by 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 is warning saved believers not to grieve the Holy Spirit or defile the Temple of God because in that day ( verse 13 ) He will judge what they had built on that foundation, and although the physical body will be destroyed ( hence a physical death ) per verses 16-17, the spirit is saved per verse 15 as they will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation.

Becoming a castaway and to die a physical death are the consequence awaiting saved believers that are excommunicated at the rapture. While the door to the Marriage Supper is open still, let every one that has His seal, even former believers, turn to Jesus now for help to see the truth that exposes the lies that turned them away from Him so they can be restored by Him to the path of righteousness for His name's sake.
 

Hark

Well-known member
There are (Two Groups) within the world, (Saved Sealed Church) & (Unsaved World)

As previously stated, you must be sealed by the Holy Spirit to be saved, this seal is until the day of redemption (Eternal Security) before your eyes, Gods words below are true

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


John 10:27-30KJV
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Explain verse 20 then. If a saved believer departs from iniquity with His help, he can be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House.

So explain verse 20 for why there would be vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity?

Why & how & when they become that vessel unto dishonor unless they become disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven for being found in iniquity still when the Lord comes as the Bridegroom to collect His abiding bride?

Compare with this verse as those who break the leats of His commandments & teaches others so are called the least in the kingdom of Heaven..

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The vessels unto dishonor are vessels of wood & earth and so they that be Christ's at His coming shall be resurrected after the great tribulation as opposed to the firstfruits of the resurrection at the rapture event as vessels unto honor as vessels of gold & silver in the City of God that comes down from Heaven where they dwell in at New Jerusalem whereas the vessels unto dishonor serves the King of kings in representing that City from all over the world in raising up the generations following in that thousand year reign..

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The firstfruits is plural for why many overlook that as just referring to Christ alone.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
There is for why Jesus warns the believers and the 7 churches in Revelations to be ready or else like in Revelation 2:18-25 where they will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation to die for their works of iniquity on that believer's foundation, unless they repent before He comes as the Bridegroom to receive only those saved believers found abiding in Him to the Marriage Supper above..

If you read Luke 21:34-36 & Luke 17:26-37 & Luke 14:15-24, Jesus is not describing the end of the great tribulation when Satan is waging a war on the saints thru out that great tribulation and at the end, marching the world's armies against Jerusalem. Jesus described the times the saints are living in as stress free as in the days of Noah & Sodom & Gomorrah where they can be tempted to love their lives more on earth that they would not want to leave.


There are consequences for those saints that remain as former believers, or in works of iniquity that deny Him, as they will be excommunicated as in disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper held in Heaven when the Bridegroom comes; see Luke 13:24-30. This is what running that race is all about as we can only run it and live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ but not every saved believer is looking to Jesus as their Good Shepherd & friend to help them lay aside every weight & sin in abiding in Him, walking in the light in fellowship with Him.

That is why by 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 is warning saved believers not to grieve the Holy Spirit or defile the Temple of God because in that day ( verse 13 ) He will judge what they had built on that foundation, and although the physical body will be destroyed ( hence a physical death ) per verses 16-17, the spirit is saved per verse 15 as they will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation.

Becoming a castaway and to die a physical death are the consequence awaiting saved believers that are excommunicated at the rapture. While the door to the Marriage Supper is open still, let every one that has His seal, even former believers, turn to Jesus now for help to see the truth that exposes the lies that turned them away from Him so they can be restored by Him to the path of righteousness for His name's sake.
We Will Strongly Disagree

There is no (Pre-Trib Rapture) found in the scripture as you suggest

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh
.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Explain verse 20 then. If a saved believer departs from iniquity with His help, he can be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House.

So explain verse 20 for why there would be vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity?

Why & how & when they become that vessel unto dishonor unless they become disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven for being found in iniquity still when the Lord comes as the Bridegroom to collect His abiding bride?

Compare with this verse as those who break the leats of His commandments & teaches others so are called the least in the kingdom of Heaven..

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The vessels unto dishonor are vessels of wood & earth and so they that be Christ's at His coming shall be resurrected after the great tribulation as opposed to the firstfruits of the resurrection at the rapture event as vessels unto honor as vessels of gold & silver in the City of God that comes down from Heaven where they dwell in at New Jerusalem whereas the vessels unto dishonor serves the King of kings in representing that City from all over the world in raising up the generations following in that thousand year reign..

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The firstfruits is plural for why many overlook that as just referring to Christ alone.
As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

(Then Cometh The End) As (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end
, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
So explain verse 20 for why there would be vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity?
There Are Many "Wolves In Sheeps Clothing" That Have Went Around The Gate, Its Your "False Opinion" The "Vessel To Dishonor" Are Saved, They Aren't

2 Peter 2:1KJV
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Matthew 7:21-23KJV
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
Last edited:

GeneZ

Well-known member
Those alive when the Strong Delusion appears who will be led of God and knowing the Bible?

They will come to say at that time.

..................................... SO!! This is what the Strong Delusion the Bible speak of really is!


In the mean time? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
 

Hark

Well-known member
We Will Strongly Disagree

There is no (Pre-Trib Rapture) found in the scripture as you suggest

The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh
.
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Consider the following verses then after that.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Can a believer be overcharged for the cares of this life at the end of the great tribulation when they need the mark of the beast to buy & sell to survive in the great tribulation? Satan will wage open war on the saints so what is there to love about the great tribulation to not want to leave this world? Jesus describes the times again at the rapture event as something care free as in the days of Noah.

Luke 17:26-37

Jesus testify earlier still how believers will be snared by the cares of this life that they would be tempted not to leave for the Supper in Heaven.

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. 21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

You need His wisdom to see the truth in His words. Yes, Christians not ready as found abiding in Him will be excommunicated from the Supper just as those not willing to go will be left behind, but they did not lose their salvation; Jesus is finishing His work in them in removing all that offends off of that foundation; they may die, but their spirits will be with the Lord, awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Those alive when the Strong Delusion appears who will be led of God and knowing the Bible?

They will come to say at that time.

..................................... SO!! This is what the Strong Delusion the Bible speak of really is!

In the mean time? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
The strong delusion is a departure from the tradition taught of us in verses 13-15 that we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel thus exposing the lie that a saved believer can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation.

That means those who seek to receive what they assume was the Holy Spirit "again" in slain in the spirit, holy laughter, Toronto's Blessings, Pensacola outpouring, Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade, and even another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues are the ones in the strong delusions for believing that lie.

They can look to Jesus Christ for help to discern the lie and the truth in His words to ask Him for help when they see the sin to depart from iniquity and that tongue which is not of Him and pray normally, going to the Father by the only way of the Son in worship, prayer, and fellowship.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
The strong delusion is a departure from the tradition taught of us in verses 13-15 that we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel thus exposing the lie that a saved believer can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation.

That means those who seek to receive what they assume was the Holy Spirit "again" in slain in the spirit, holy laughter, Toronto's Blessings, Pensacola outpouring, Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade, and even another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues are the ones in the strong delusions for believing that lie.

They can look to Jesus Christ for help to discern the lie and the truth in His words to ask Him for help when they see the sin to depart from iniquity and that tongue which is not of Him and pray normally, going to the Father by the only way of the Son in worship, prayer, and fellowship.

The Strong delusion is going to take place when the Church is no longer on earth.


5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back,
so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds
it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."


The Holy Spirit that indwells all believers must be first removed from the earth! For He is retsraining the Antichrist system, though its still active in the lives of men today (Deep State). [7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work.]

The Antichrist himself can not be revealed until after the Restrainer is removed!

Hence ... the rapture must take place first before the Strong Delusion is manifested.


We now have 'minor delusions' in our day in comparison.

Very important: What many gentile believers fail to grasp (until they are shown) is that Jesus was teaching Jews as a rabbi, according to the OT in regards to the future of Israel. After the church is removed , the Tribulation is the continuation of the age of Israel for seven more years.

Jesus was teaching Jews as a Jew would teach Jews. He was not teaching the Church. The Church did not exist yet. The church began on the day of Pentecost when the baptism of the Holy Spirit was given. .

The mystery teaching (not taught by Jesus) for the church, was to become primarily Paul's job, about the new life that manifested after the resurrection and glorification of Christ. Also, to a lesser degree was the job of the Apostles who had become a new creation in Christ and were no longer Jews in function.

We who are in Christ at this time will not be on earth to see the Strong Delusion. Yet, we will see smaller delusions in our life time. But, they are minor compared to what will take place during the Tribulation. For right now the antichrist system on earth is being restrained and held back. It will be the Great Delusion once the one holding them back is removed from this earth! The rapture will be that removal.

and... we do not know what the Strong Delusion will be. Others will know it when they see it. Its in the Bible to let those who will be alive at that time to understand what will be going on.

grace and peace ..........
 
Last edited:

Hark

Well-known member
The Strong delusion is going to take place when the Church is no longer on earth.
Do note verse 7 as Paul is testifying that this power of the lawless one was already at work in Paul days.
5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back,
so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds
it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."

The Holy Spirit that indwells all believers must be first removed from the earth! For He is retsraining the Antichrist system, though its still active in the lives of men today (Deep State). [7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work.]
The restraining power of the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way even though He still resides in the saved believer that went astray, believing the lie that he can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sensational sign in the flesh, thus denying Him as in them since salvation by faith in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel..
The Antichrist himself can not be revealed until after the Restrainer is removed!
There are many antichrist and the prophesied son of perdition of the great tribulation is not the only one. The apostle John testify of many antichrist that are present in his time as as they are now in these latter days where faith is hard to find.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Hence ... the rapture must take place first before the Strong Delusion is manifested.
No. The grand delusion is already here for why many are going astray in the last days for why the rapture event is God judging His House first signaling the end of the times of the Gentiles before giving the dispensation of the gospel back to the Jews after the rapture, the 144,000 witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation, which also include the 2 witnesses Enoch & Elijah that will come for the first half.

But the son of perdition prophesied to come to be revealed during the great tribulation is a specific antichrist that should not be confused with the many antichrists in these last days. Antichrists is what leads people away from Christ as in instead of the Son. So any spirit that people point to as a means to come to God by instead of the Son, are pointing to an antichrist, including "holy" communion when they point to the Eucharist as a way or means to come to Christ or to God. God provided only one way to come to him and that is through His Son, not the Holy Spirit nor the Church nor the Eucharist nor holy communion when the real indwelling Holy Ghost & scripture are pointing believers to the Son for life with God the Father in worship, prayer, & fellowship.

Time to narrow the way back to the straight gate to chase no more after the Holy Spirit for a sign when He has been in us since salvation as promised for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ nor seek to receive Him again by communion when it is to be done in remembrance of Him.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Do note verse 7 as Paul is testifying that this power of the lawless one was already at work in Paul days.

The restraining power of the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way even though He still resides in the saved believer that went astray, believing the lie that he can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sensational sign in the flesh, thus denying Him as in them since salvation by faith in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel..

There are many antichrist and the prophesied son of perdition of the great tribulation is not the only one. The apostle John testify of many antichrist that are present in his time as as they are now in these latter days where faith is hard to find.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

No. The grand delusion is already here for why many are going astray in the last days for why the rapture event is God judging His House first signaling the end of the times of the Gentiles before giving the dispensation of the gospel back to the Jews after the rapture, the 144,000 witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation, which also include the 2 witnesses Enoch & Elijah that will come for the first half.

But the son of perdition prophesied to come to be revealed during the great tribulation is a specific antichrist that should not be confused with the many antichrists in these last days. Antichrists is what leads people away from Christ as in instead of the Son. So any spirit that people point to as a means to come to God by instead of the Son, are pointing to an antichrist, including "holy" communion when they point to the Eucharist as a way or means to come to Christ or to God. God provided only one way to come to him and that is through His Son, not the Holy Spirit nor the Church nor the Eucharist nor holy communion when the real indwelling Holy Ghost & scripture are pointing believers to the Son for life with God the Father in worship, prayer, & fellowship.

Time to narrow the way back to the straight gate to chase no more after the Holy Spirit for a sign when He has been in us since salvation as promised for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ nor seek to receive Him again by communion when it is to be done in remembrance of Him.
Nice to have met you.... May God bless.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Consider the following verses then after that.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Can a believer be overcharged for the cares of this life at the end of the great tribulation when they need the mark of the beast to buy & sell to survive in the great tribulation? Satan will wage open war on the saints so what is there to love about the great tribulation to not want to leave this world? Jesus describes the times again at the rapture event as something care free as in the days of Noah.

Luke 17:26-37

Jesus testify earlier still how believers will be snared by the cares of this life that they would be tempted not to leave for the Supper in Heaven.

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. 21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

You need His wisdom to see the truth in His words. Yes, Christians not ready as found abiding in Him will be excommunicated from the Supper just as those not willing to go will be left behind, but they did not lose their salvation; Jesus is finishing His work in them in removing all that offends off of that foundation; they may die, but their spirits will be with the Lord, awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation.
The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh
.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh
.
That is false.

Jesus was a rabbi. Jesus was teaching Jews according to the Torah, not the mystery doctrines of the church age that were yet hidden. Those teachings were being reserved for Paul to expound on.

Jesus was a rabbi, teaching Jews of future prophesy. The Tribulation will be a return to the Jewish age for a short time.

Many gentiles are painfully ignorant of this reality. The Jews knew that they had a future promised to them as Jews, not the church.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
That is false.

Jesus was a rabbi. Jesus was teaching Jews according to the Torah, not the mystery doctrines of the church age that were yet hidden. Those teachings were being reserved for Paul to expound on.

Jesus was a rabbi, teaching Jews of future prophesy. The Tribulation will be a return to the Jewish age for a short time.

Many gentiles are painfully ignorant of this reality. The Jews knew that they had a future promised to them as Jews, not the church.
(Dual Covenant Theology) in (Two Peoples Of God) Jew/Church a false teaching

There is one covenant between God and man, the shed blood on Calvary period

Jesus Christ fulfilled all the promises and covenants made to Abraham

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
(Dual Covenant Theology) in (Two Peoples Of God) Jew/Church a false teaching

There is one covenant between God and man, the shed blood on Calvary period

Jesus Christ fulfilled all the promises and covenants made to Abraham

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Stop and think for a second....

The Jews were awaiting a Messiah to set up his kingdom AND RULE OVER THEM.

The Church is awaiting for the return of Christ, and to REIGN WITH HIM over those Jews!
 

101G

Well-known member
Stop and think for a second....

The Jews were awaiting a Messiah to set up his kingdom AND RULE OVER THEM.

The Church is awaiting for the return of Christ, and to REIGN WITH HIM over those Jews!
Greeting, not saying any is Right or Wrong in their beliefs, but consider this. there is Only ONE SET OF "ELECT", and they all are in the ONE CHURCH, the LIGHT in Zion, and not in the wilderness. supportive scriptures. Ephesians 2:11 "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;"
Ephesians 2:12 "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" (THE commonwealth of Israel is the redeemed, WHO ARE ALL, I SAY AGAIN, ALL JEWS, EVEN IF GENTILE., but are not Jews Israel only? NO, and I again say no, Let the bible speak, Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:" Romans 2:29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." THIS IS THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL.)
lets continue
Ephesians 2:13 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."
Ephesians 2:14 "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;" (BOTH ONE? yes, all people redeemed in God is ONE, Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.")

Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"
Ephesians 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" (ONE BODY? THAT'S THE CHURCH), so this answer any Dual Covenant Theology in any (Two Peoples Of God) Jew/Church. ONLY ONE BODY.
Ephesians 2:17 "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh."(we all had the gospel preached to us)

Ephesians 2:18 "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."
Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;" (again the household of God is the commonwealth of Israel. ... for we are all of the same same HOUSEHOLDER.)
Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;"
Ephesians 2:21 "In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:"
Ephesians 2:22 "In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

something to consider. now as for me, understanding the scriptures, THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT THEORY. NOR ANY DAUL COVENANTS.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Greeting, not saying any is Right or Wrong in their beliefs, but consider this. there is Only ONE SET OF "ELECT", and they all are in the ONE CHURCH, the LIGHT in Zion, and not in the wilderness. supportive scriptures. Ephesians 2:11 "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;"
Ephesians 2:12 "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" (THE commonwealth of Israel is the redeemed, WHO ARE ALL, I SAY AGAIN, ALL JEWS, EVEN IF GENTILE., but are not Jews Israel only? NO, and I again say no, Let the bible speak, Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:" Romans 2:29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." THIS IS THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL.)
lets continue
Ephesians 2:13 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."
Ephesians 2:14 "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;" (BOTH ONE? yes, all people redeemed in God is ONE, Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.")

Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"
Ephesians 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" (ONE BODY? THAT'S THE CHURCH), so this answer any Dual Covenant Theology in any (Two Peoples Of God) Jew/Church. ONLY ONE BODY.
Ephesians 2:17 "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh."(we all had the gospel preached to us)

Ephesians 2:18 "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."
Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;" (again the household of God is the commonwealth of Israel. ... for we are all of the same same HOUSEHOLDER.)
Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;"
Ephesians 2:21 "In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:"
Ephesians 2:22 "In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

something to consider. now as for me, understanding the scriptures, THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT THEORY. NOR ANY DAUL COVENANTS.

PICJAG, 101G.
Not paying attention to the point I made.

Jews (as Jews) were awaiting their Messiah. Waiting for him to come to earth to establish his kingdom to reign over them.

Now, there are neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ Jesus. But a new creation in Christ.

That new creation has a different covenant (contract) with God. And, that is one to offer to reign with Him if they pass what is required of the Lord.

Jews were never called to reign with Christ over the nations.

If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. " 2 Timothy 2:12

And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-
'He shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the potter's vessels shall be broken to pieces'-
As I also have received from My Father
. . Revelation 2:26-27


See, ah?

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away ( no longer a Jew, for Jews!)
; behold, the new has come."
2 Cor 5:17


In Christ, the new creation (Christians) are not under the same covenant promised to the Jews as the original creation!

We will not have a Messiah reigning over us on earth (original covenant) - but, our home will be Heaven!
And, we will commute to earth to reign with Christ over those on earth who will be living on earth according to the original covenant.


Jews saved during the church age are no longer under the covenant to the Jews. Why? He is no longer a Jew.
 
Top