The succession of popes and their questionable behaviour

RayneBeau

Well-known member
As one example, Leviticus 4 has instances of sacrifices made for forgiveness of sins, where they were brought to the priest and "and the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed, and he shall be forgiven" (Lev 4:35). God has always mediated forgiveness through His people. Yes, the primary authority is with God but He delights in working through others.
That old system, that old human priesthood, has been set aside and replaced by the eternal priesthood of Jesus Christ. Because He abides for ever, His priesthood is unchangeable - not liable to pass to a successor.
 

balshan

Well-known member
I double checked Greek grammar sites/pages such as Robertson's Word Pictures, several Greek NT sites (just that, not by denomination specifically), Matt Slick, etc. and this is the common understanding. What it boils down to is that the apostles were given the authority to proclaim sins have been forgiven by Christ to those who believe but not to those who don't believe.

As I said before, many times (not always) the "plain reading" is what's misleading without taking other things in context. We know only God forgives sins. Healing and casting out demons isn't equal to forgiveness of sin. Jesus and, later, the Holy Spirit gave gifts and abilities to believers to further His kingdom and build up the church (body of believers). Forgiveness only comes from Him.

Salvation is based solely acceptance or rejection of the gospel, not sure why you would think otherwise. If you think "if that was all" they did means they didn't do anything, you don't understand what the message of the gospel is.
excellent response.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
The statement Francis made at Abu Dhabi is about mutual cultural respect between Christians and Muslims. What's wrong with that?
What "Mutual Cultural respect" has "Light" with darkness??? ISLAM is a satanic religious system that can ONLY lead its victims into eternal HELL.
I'd love to see some doctrinal statements where Francis says things that are alleged of him.
You'd only use the Catholic "Back door", and say they're Not "Official statements", and don't mean anything. You don't seem to remember that when Bergoglio was first elected, the Cardinals were falling over each other to "Correct" his statements and pretend they weren't heresy.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Sure, only God can forgive sins.
Not true YOU can forgive SINS committed against you. Everybody can forgive sins committed against themselves - it's called "Tearing up the I.O.U." that you're holding against them.

Jesus WAS NOT ABOUT "forgiving Sins". His SIN OFFERING on Calvary was about REMOVING SIN in the lives of those who are Born again of the Holy Spirit by FAITH, and rendering them PERFECT before God. It's called "Salvation".
After all, in the Old Testament, didn't priests forgive sins through the sacrificial system? However, wasn't it God really forgiving sins through it?
Nope - Hebrews goes into that issue. The "Sacrificial system" didn't "Forgive" sins - it only "Covered them temporarily". Jesus' Sacrifice, however, when applied by FAITH, ELIMINATES SIN in the Christian completely.
Catholics see priests as ministers of God's forgiveness, not doing it off their own bat. It is authority they have from and through God, not their own.
Which is ridiculous. The priest can ONLY FORGIVE Sins committed against himself, and can cleanse nobody. Jesus is the advocate between Man and Father God. IF the Priest happens to also be a Born Again Christian, then he would be able to give Godly Council, and possibly lead someone to repentance.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Not true YOU can forgive SINS committed against you. Everybody can forgive sins committed against themselves - it's called "Tearing up the I.O.U." that you're holding against them.

Jesus WAS NOT ABOUT "forgiving Sins". His SIN OFFERING on Calvary was about REMOVING SIN in the lives of those who are Born again of the Holy Spirit by FAITH, and rendering them PERFECT before God. It's called "Salvation".

Nope - Hebrews goes into that issue. The "Sacrificial system" didn't "Forgive" sins - it only "Covered them temporarily". Jesus' Sacrifice, however, when applied by FAITH, ELIMINATES SIN in the Christian completely.

Which is ridiculous. The priest can ONLY FORGIVE Sins committed against himself, and can cleanse nobody. Jesus is the advocate between Man and Father God. IF the Priest happens to also be a Born Again Christian, then he would be able to give Godly Council, and possibly lead someone to repentance.
excellent response
 

ramcam2

Member
So what you are saying that God so loves believers, He gives them evil leaders who lead them into false doctrines. This is your all loving God.
we do not blame god for sinful leaders just like we do not blame god for the evils/sins in this world.
 

ramcam2

Member
"since jesus can't be with his church visibly, he gave the power to forgive sins to other men"
False premise

Jesus not being here "visibly, " is irrelevant to God forgiving sins.
Jesus is omnipresent and Jesus is omniscient
Believers are in Christ and Christ is in them:

There are nearly a half million Cathodic priests right now. Through out history there have been millions.
God did NOT give a millions of people the authority to forgive sins against Him..
key point: sins against God are forgiven by ?......... God!


How do I know that?
Only God can forgive sins.!
yes, i agree that only god can forgive sins but the question is... how does god says our sins are forgiven or retained? in your other post you mentioned a believer gets his sins forgiven while an unbeliever gets it retained. is this your answer?
 
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1Thess521

Well-known member
yes, i agree that only god can forgive sins but the question is... how does god says our sins are forgiven or retained? in your other post you mentioned a believer gets his sins forgiven while an unbeliever gets it retained. is this your answer?
yes:
1 Jon 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Acts10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
it is spiritual adultery:
believing a lie and going to another for something God provides!

that's how it takes away from God's glory.

the truth is that it is NOT absolutely necessary FOR SALVATION that ANY human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff""
You can shout that for as long as you like, I'm not convinced.

As I said, Catholics believe God is gracious with his spiritual gifts and works through his ministers and Christians generally.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
"I find it difficult to understand the Protestant position sometimes."

you may want to expand your reading list to include conservative, Catholic Church-loving news sites.
No thanks. I tend to avoid people who are closed-minded and think that just because someone else has a different perspective or viewpoint they come from the devil.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
I double checked Greek grammar sites/pages such as Robertson's Word Pictures, several Greek NT sites (just that, not by denomination specifically), Matt Slick, etc. and this is the common understanding. What it boils down to is that the apostles were given the authority to proclaim sins have been forgiven by Christ to those who believe but not to those who don't believe.

As I said before, many times (not always) the "plain reading" is what's misleading without taking other things in context. We know only God forgives sins. Healing and casting out demons isn't equal to forgiveness of sin. Jesus and, later, the Holy Spirit gave gifts and abilities to believers to further His kingdom and build up the church (body of believers). Forgiveness only comes from Him.

Salvation is based solely acceptance or rejection of the gospel, not sure why you would think otherwise. If you think "if that was all" they did means they didn't do anything, you don't understand what the message of the gospel is.
Okay, I don't want to belabour the point.

But we know that God has worked through people in the past to forgive sins, e.g. the old covenant priesthood. Again, it is only God who forgives sins but He works through us too to do so.

Here's a question: Do you believe that God forgives everyone's sin that they ask Him to forgive?
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
No thanks. I tend to avoid people who are closed-minded and think that just because someone else has a different perspective or viewpoint they come from the devil.
and there we go ; the internal issue within the Cathodic Church on full display

conservative, Catholic Church-loving Catholics are the ones who are close minded.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
You can shout that for as long as you like, I'm not convinced.

As I said, Catholics believe God is gracious with his spiritual gifts and works through his ministers and Christians generally.
that is different than proclaiming as an infallible truth a requirement for salvation for everyone the the Bible never mentioned

straight to the point
which of this two opposite statements are actually true?

that it is absolutely necessary FOR SALVATION that EVERY human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff
or
that it is NOT absolutely necessary FOR SALVATION that ANY human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff""
 
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