The System of Salvation

balshan

Well-known member
It was merely the admission of the mistake, the taking ownership of what happened. There was really no need of an apology in this instance.

I responded in kind to the condescending manner of the person who responded to me. Perhaps I should have taken the higher road, but I will not be talked down to.
So once again showing a lack of understanding of love they neighbour and turn the other cheek. Gotcha.
 

balshan

Well-known member
That's all you will ever get from that poster. Someone who claims to know what is in the hearts of people and what God means as He speaks through the scriptures. If you don't have the same relationship with God as the poster has, then you don't know and can never know God. It's the same broken record over and over again. There's a word called hubris that fits perfectly.
Hubris means

Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance - wordnik

Hmm no that does not describe the poster. But it could be used for others. When you put your institution as the one started by Jesus and it obviously isn't, then you follow it not Jesus. It rejects most of what is in the scriptures by changing the meaning of words, ignoring what is written, adding to it, but most of all by its actions. If you follow RCC then you are ignoring the bulk of God's word. No hubris required just common sense.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Statement assumes that following the RCC is not following God.


Wrong.
It doesn't. That is shown by the actions of its leaders and how other leaders protect those sinful leaders. Scripture is clear if you see sin and do nothing you are part of the sin. Then scripture is clear DO NOT eat with brothers who continue to sin.

1 Cor 5:11

But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

Numbers 16:26

and he spoke to the congregation, saying, “Depart now from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing that belongs to them, or you will be swept away in all their sin.”

Your institution has been swept away in all their sin. Actions speak, the actions of your institution has spoken and it has shown to be wanting.
 

Maxtar

Active member
Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance - wordnik

Hmm no that does not describe the poster.
When someone claims that they know what is in a person's heart and cannot know the Lord unless they experience Him as they do, the word fits perfectly.
 

Maxtar

Active member
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

And here you are again, associating with us. So it is pretty clear that you don't even practice what you preach
 

Nondenom40

Super Member
They are; in a relative sense. There is a distinction between "necessity of means" and "necessity by precept."

Baptism in some form is necessary for salvation; that is, without Baptism in some form, salvation is not possible. The rest of the sacraments are necessary in a relative sense; that is, necessary by precept. This means that salvation is possible without them for the individual, but they are a necessary component of what it means to be the Body of Christ on earth. That also means that all things being equal the individual should want to participate in the sacramental life of the Church----unless legitimately prevented from doing so by things nut under the control of the individual. Sickness, emergencies, etc.
They are; in a relative sense. There is a distinction between "necessity of means" and "necessity by precept."

Do you have any official documents, the ccc or anything else that backs up what you just said? I didn't see ccc 1129 split hairs over 'necessity of means' vs 'necessity of precept.' Do you? Seems every time i bring up your ccc theres alway a 'but' or an *. It can't be read 'plainly' and taken at face value. Why is that?

Baptism in some form is necessary for salvation; that is, without Baptism in some form, salvation is not possible.

Water baptism isn't necessary for salvation. Believing in Jesus is. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is what we all are given when we are born again. 1 Cor 12 we are all baptized into one body

1 Cor 12:13
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. NASB

This isn't a reference to water baptism and you know this. Not everyone who is a christian has been water baptized. But if you are a true born again believer you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
 
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balshan

Well-known member
And here you are again, associating with us. So it is pretty clear that you don't even practice what you preach
Not eating with you at all. So it is clear you are making another one of your famous false claims. You have learnt well from your false teachers. We are totally allowed to show the false claims of the RCC, that is scriptural.
 

Maxtar

Active member
Not eating with you at all. So it is clear you are making another one of your famous false claims. You have learnt well from your false teachers. We are totally allowed to show the false claims of the RCC, that is scriptural.
You cannot deny this. You constantly berate us Catholics, damn our Church and our clergy, yet here you are - not a claim but fact.
 

Maxtar

Active member
Please post a link to said person. Feel free to provide such evidence. You make claims without providing any evidence.
1. "catholics are taught about Him, but have no personal relationship with Him thru faith in Him".


2. "sure, there are a lot of unbelievers that catholics label as protestants. they have different false beliefs than catholics have, but they're still unbelievers. They don't believe in Christ as Lord and Savior or in God's word, in that they are no different than catholics".



Posts from mica, in the Attracted and/or Committed thread. Other threads have similar posts from her.
 

balshan

Well-known member
You cannot deny this. You constantly berate us Catholics, damn our Church and our clergy, yet here you are - not a claim but fact.
I can deny it. I point out the truth that is not derating. If that is how you see it, that is your problem and maybe the Holy Spirit is trying to break through to you. Not me at all. I do not damn anyone I am not God. You love to make false claims. I do not presume to know the state of a person's soul at the point of death.
 

balshan

Well-known member
1. "catholics are taught about Him, but have no personal relationship with Him thru faith in Him".


2. "sure, there are a lot of unbelievers that catholics label as protestants. they have different false beliefs than catholics have, but they're still unbelievers. They don't believe in Christ as Lord and Savior or in God's word, in that they are no different than catholics".



Posts from mica, in the Attracted and/or Committed thread. Other threads have similar posts from her.
You have not linked to those posts. Need to see the context but neither saying she can read your heart at all, nor that you have to have the same relationship as she does.
 

mica

Well-known member
balshan said:
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
And here you are again, associating with us. So it is pretty clear that you don't even practice what you preach
Did Jesus send the 12 out to take His msg to the righteous or the lost?

1. "catholics are taught about Him, but have no personal relationship with Him thru faith in Him".

2. "sure, there are a lot of unbelievers that catholics label as protestants. they have different false beliefs than catholics have, but they're still unbelievers. They don't believe in Christ as Lord and Savior or in God's word, in that they are no different than catholics".

Posts from mica, in the Attracted and/or Committed thread. Other threads have similar posts from her.
that is right out of scripture, I didn't make it up. catholics freely post here what they believe and don't believe. catholics believe in the RCC, that's who they trust in and follow. Jesus repeats over and over - 'believe in and follow Me'. Catholics believe in and follow the RCC, a false teacher. Nowhere in scripture does He (or an apostle) teach anyone to believe and follow the RCC.

your disagreement is with God's word.

Catholics don't take the gospel to the lost. Most catholics don't know the gospel. Teaching it is not a priority to the RCC. It was a priority to Jesus and the apostles.
 

Maxtar

Active member
You have not linked to those posts. Need to see the context but neither saying she can read your heart at all, nor that you have to have the same relationship as she does.
"catholics are taught about Him, but have no personal relationship with Him thru faith in Him". Can you not read???? That is a statement from a person that shows hubris. She DOES NOT KNOW what type of relationship a person does or does not have with Christ, in other words she does not know what is in a persons heart.
 

Maxtar

Active member
Did Jesus send the 12 out to take His msg to the righteous or the lost?
Yes, but if one is going to invoke a scripture that says not to associate with certain kinds of people, then they should heed those words and not associate with certain kinds of people. It's called hypocrisy.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
Do you have any official documents, the ccc or anything else that backs up what you just said? I didn't see ccc 1129 split hairs over 'necessity of means' vs 'necessity of precept.' Do you? Seems every time i bring up your ccc there's always a 'but' or an *. It can't be read 'plainly' and taken at face value. Why is that?

Check out "New Advent' Catholic encyclopedia. Read.

And it can be read and taken at face value; when you read it like a Catholic. When you read it like a Protestant fundamentalist----who reads it not to understand anything----but to score apologetics points, looking for the "Gotya!" of course you can make it say or unsay whatever you want.
Water baptism isn't necessary for salvation. Believing in Jesus is. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is what we all are given when we are born again. 1 Cor 12 we are all baptized into one body

What do you think Baptism is if not baptism in the Holy Spirit? Water Baptism is just the ordinary way one is baptized into the Holy Spirit and one is given the gift of Faith---so that--one can believe in Jesus.

Do I really have to explain to a Protestant fundamentalist----that we cannot believe in Jesus unless God works in us and gives us the grace/ability to believe in Jesus? Faith is not a human work. God gives us the gift of Faith so that we can believe. This comes in Baptism.
1 Cor 12:13
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. NASB

This isn't a reference to water baptism and you know this. Not everyone who is a Christian has been water baptized. But if you are a true born again believer you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Why does it have to explicitly refer to water? Aren't there enough passages in Scripture that refer to baptism and water and connect them? Only a lawyer would try to argue the connection isn't clear enough. Are you a lawyer?
 

balshan

Well-known member
"catholics are taught about Him, but have no personal relationship with Him thru faith in Him". Can you not read???? That is a statement from a person that shows hubris. She DOES NOT KNOW what type of relationship a person does or does not have with Christ, in other words she does not know what is in a persons heart.
I can read nowhere does it mention your heart at all. Also, what was the context. She does get an idea from the posts if you follow RCC doctrines without testing them against scripture it shows the relationship. This does not mean that you will continue to have a flawed relationship at all but at present it shows it is at least clouded. Not showing the heart at all. I wonder why it upsets you so much, do you feel it is saying something to you.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Yes, but if one is going to invoke a scripture that says not to associate with certain kinds of people, then they should heed those words and not associate with certain kinds of people. It's called hypocrisy.
Hmm an area that the RCC excels in. I meant it says it is the pillar and foundation of truth and morals and then allows children to be abused. As I say experts in hypocrisy is the RCC.
 
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