The "T" in TULIP - refuted in one verse.

brightfame52

Well-known member
That is irrational and contrary to scripture

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
Okay that verse doesn't have any thing to do with the fact that if you are not in Christ when He died , His death was not for you
 

TomFL

Well-known member
They existed in the mind and purpose of God. They whom He foreknew
They still did not exist

And unbelieving there were not in Christ

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

Question: "What does it mean to be in Christ?"

Answer:
Galatians 3:26-28 gives us insight into the phrase “in Christ” and what it means. "In Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Paul is speaking to the Christians in Galatia, reminding them of their new identity since they placed their faith in Jesus Christ. To be "baptized into Christ" means that they were identified with Christ, having left their old sinful lives and fully embracing the new life in Christ (Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23). When we respond to the Holy Spirit’s drawing, He "baptizes" us into the family of God. First Corinthians 12:13 says, "For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
They still did not exist

And unbelieving there were not in Christ

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

Question: "What does it mean to be in Christ?"

Answer:
Galatians 3:26-28 gives us insight into the phrase “in Christ” and what it means. "In Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Paul is speaking to the Christians in Galatia, reminding them of their new identity since they placed their faith in Jesus Christ. To be "baptized into Christ" means that they were identified with Christ, having left their old sinful lives and fully embracing the new life in Christ (Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23). When we respond to the Holy Spirit’s drawing, He "baptizes" us into the family of God. First Corinthians 12:13 says, "For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."
They existed to God so what you say doesn't matter!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
They existed to God so what you say doesn't matter!
Scripture always matters and it shows Men are sealed in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

What is meant by being in Christ?

To be "in Christ" is one way of describing what it means to be a Christian. Those who are "in Christ" are spiritually united to and identified with Christ such that all the blessings and the benefits obtained by Christ belong to them. The book of Ephesians alone references the believer as being "in Christ" twenty-seven times and expounds on the rich spiritual blessings that belong to such believers. Though the Christian's union with Christ was predestined by God before the creation of the world (Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9), it is not the state into which we are naturally born. In fact, Scripture describes all mankind as being born in a state of separation and alienated from God (Ephesians 2:12). Our union with Christ is not realized until, by the grace of God, we repent of our sin and exercise faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8–10). Through faith in Christ we come to experience a spiritual union with Him wherein we participate in His life, death, resurrection and ascension (Colossians 2:12; Romans 6:5; Ephesians 2:6). Analogies used to help us picture this spiritual union include how branches are united to a vine, and even marriage, where man is united to woman (John 15:5; Ephesians 5:31–32). Below is a list of just some of the amazing benefits which belong to those of us who are "in Christ."

1. In Christ, we are adopted into God's family (Ephesians 1:5). We are made children of God with Jesus Christ as, not only our Lord and Savior, but also our elder brother (Romans 8:29).

2. In Christ, we are accepted by God (Ephesians 1:7).

3. In Christ, we experience the eternal and unbreakable love of God (Romans 8:38–39).

4. In Christ, we experience the peace of God which transcends understanding and guards our hearts and minds (Philippians 4:7–9).

5. In Christ, God has promised to meet all of our needs, both material and spiritual (Philippians 4:11–13; 2 Peter 1:3–4).

6. In Christ, we are justified and sanctified in the sight of God. We have had our sins imputed to Christ and Christ's righteousness has been imputed to us (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 5:18–19). This is a "double exchange" wherein Christ voluntarily suffered for our sins and clothed us with His righteousness. This is the basis for the forgiveness of our sins before our holy God (Ephesians 1:7).

7. In Christ, we belong to the church, which is referred to in Scripture as the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27). Those of us who are in Christ are also united to one another (John 17:20–21). Our union with Christ is the basis for unity amongst believers. We are living stones brought together to make up a spiritual house (1 Peter 2:5). We are members of Christ's body. We are the very bride of Christ.

8. In Christ, we share in the benefits of His life, death, resurrection and ascension such that, not only are we recipients of Christ's life and righteousness, but we have been freed from the power and penalty of sin and death (Hebrews 2:14–15; 1 Corinthians 15:55–57). In Christ, we have been made alive to God, having been made new creatures with new spiritual natures (2 Corinthians 5:17–19). In Christ, we are being progressively transformed into His image and likeness (2 Corinthians 3:18). Finally, in Christ, we eagerly anticipate receiving glorified resurrected bodies and reigning with Him forever in the new heavens and the new earth (Philippians 3:20–21; 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 5:10). https://www.compellingtruth.org/in-Christ.html

that you hold an unbeliever who opposed to God is in Christ really is quite hard to comprehend
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Scripture always matters and it shows Men are sealed in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

What is meant by being in Christ?

To be "in Christ" is one way of describing what it means to be a Christian. Those who are "in Christ" are spiritually united to and identified with Christ such that all the blessings and the benefits obtained by Christ belong to them. The book of Ephesians alone references the believer as being "in Christ" twenty-seven times and expounds on the rich spiritual blessings that belong to such believers. Though the Christian's union with Christ was predestined by God before the creation of the world (Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9), it is not the state into which we are naturally born. In fact, Scripture describes all mankind as being born in a state of separation and alienated from God (Ephesians 2:12). Our union with Christ is not realized until, by the grace of God, we repent of our sin and exercise faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8–10). Through faith in Christ we come to experience a spiritual union with Him wherein we participate in His life, death, resurrection and ascension (Colossians 2:12; Romans 6:5; Ephesians 2:6). Analogies used to help us picture this spiritual union include how branches are united to a vine, and even marriage, where man is united to woman (John 15:5; Ephesians 5:31–32). Below is a list of just some of the amazing benefits which belong to those of us who are "in Christ."

1. In Christ, we are adopted into God's family (Ephesians 1:5). We are made children of God with Jesus Christ as, not only our Lord and Savior, but also our elder brother (Romans 8:29).

2. In Christ, we are accepted by God (Ephesians 1:7).

3. In Christ, we experience the eternal and unbreakable love of God (Romans 8:38–39).

4. In Christ, we experience the peace of God which transcends understanding and guards our hearts and minds (Philippians 4:7–9).

5. In Christ, God has promised to meet all of our needs, both material and spiritual (Philippians 4:11–13; 2 Peter 1:3–4).

6. In Christ, we are justified and sanctified in the sight of God. We have had our sins imputed to Christ and Christ's righteousness has been imputed to us (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 5:18–19). This is a "double exchange" wherein Christ voluntarily suffered for our sins and clothed us with His righteousness. This is the basis for the forgiveness of our sins before our holy God (Ephesians 1:7).

7. In Christ, we belong to the church, which is referred to in Scripture as the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27). Those of us who are in Christ are also united to one another (John 17:20–21). Our union with Christ is the basis for unity amongst believers. We are living stones brought together to make up a spiritual house (1 Peter 2:5). We are members of Christ's body. We are the very bride of Christ.

8. In Christ, we share in the benefits of His life, death, resurrection and ascension such that, not only are we recipients of Christ's life and righteousness, but we have been freed from the power and penalty of sin and death (Hebrews 2:14–15; 1 Corinthians 15:55–57). In Christ, we have been made alive to God, having been made new creatures with new spiritual natures (2 Corinthians 5:17–19). In Christ, we are being progressively transformed into His image and likeness (2 Corinthians 3:18). Finally, in Christ, we eagerly anticipate receiving glorified resurrected bodies and reigning with Him forever in the new heavens and the new earth (Philippians 3:20–21; 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 5:10). https://www.compellingtruth.org/in-Christ.html

that you hold an unbeliever who opposed to God is in Christ really is quite hard to comprehend
Why you wasting spàce ? Men must be in Christ inorder for Christ to have died for them. In fact God's redempive love is only in Christ!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
All believers not unbelievers

Hello
You have unbelievers in Christ because if not Christ could not legally die for them. Now granted they don't remain unbelievers, sooner or later God gives them newbirth and the fruit of faith to believe.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You have unbelievers in Christ because if not Christ could not legally die for them. Now granted they don't remain unbelievers, sooner or later God gives them newbirth and the fruit of faith to believe.
Nonsense

That is nowhere stated in scripture.

And you contradict multiple verses of scripture for the sake of your theology

and have no idea of what it means to be in Christ

For example the bible states

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

that speaks to regeneration

So according to you elect unbelievers are regenerate while in opposition to God

Seriously man you are in need of a new biblical theology
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Why you wasting spàce ? Men must be in Christ inorder for Christ to have died for them. In fact God's redempive love is only in Christ!
John 3:16–17 —ESV
“¶ “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nonsense

That is nowhere stated in scripture.

And you contradict multiple verses of scripture for the sake of your theology

and have no idea of what it means to be in Christ

For example the bible states

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

that speaks to regeneration

So according to you elect unbelievers are regenerate while in opposition to God

Seriously man you are in need of a new biblical theology
No it is the truth!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
John 3:16–17 —ESV
“¶ “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”
That love of God is for sinners in Christ!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
No it is the truth!
Sorry the fact you cannot address what was written shows otherwise

And it is rather plain you have no idea of what it means to be in Christ

For example the bible states

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

that speaks to regeneration

So according to you elect unbelievers are regenerate while in opposition to God

Your theology is seriously unscriptural
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry the fact you cannot address what was written shows otherwise


and have no idea of what it means to be in Christ

For example the bible states

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

that speaks to regeneration

So according to you elect unbelievers are regenerate while in opposition to God

Your theology is seriously unscriptural
There's nothing to address. If one is not in Christ when Christ died for them then He could not legally have died for them nor love them.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
That love of God is for sinners in Christ!
Unbelievers are not in Christ

Not only do you ignore

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

the fact the bible tells us when men are in Christ

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

they are new creations

It is absurd you think men opposed to God can be regenerated new creations
 

TomFL

Well-known member
There's nothing to address. If one is not in Christ when Christ died for them then He could not legally have died for them nor love them.
You are in denial

which is why you do not address the argument

and regurgitate your theology which has no biblical support
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Unbelievers are not in Christ

Not only do you ignore

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

the fact the bible tells us when men are in Christ

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

they are new creations

It is absurd you think men opposed to God can be regenerated new creations
Sure they are or they aren't loved by God
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You are in denial

which is why you do not address the argument

and regurgitate your theology which has no biblical support
There's nothing to change the fact that if you are not in Christ when He died for you, He could not legally have died for you.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
There's nothing to change the fact that if you are not in Christ when He died for you, He could not legally have died for you.
Sorry that is not found anywhere in the bible

and your regurgitated statement just ignores what the scriptures state

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

the fact the bible tells us when men are in Christ

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

they are new creations

It is absurd you think men opposed to God can be regenerated new creations
 
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