The "T" in TULIP - refuted in one verse.

Mike McK

Active member
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes." (Matt. 11:21)

Added bonus: even Sodom would have repented had they seen the same miracles!

"And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day." (Matt 11:23)

It seems to me that if the Calvinist understanding of total depravity is true, then neither of these scenarios would have actually happened since (in the Calvinistic scheme of things) the non-elect have no ability to respond favorably to any outward call of the gospel; they don't have the inner regeneration of the Holy Spirit causing them to respond favorably.
On the face of it, with no context, that seems like a great point.

The problem is that all of this occurred under the Old Covenant when repentance was an outward physical act, rather than under the New Covenant when repentance was an inward, spiritual act.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Okay that verse doesn't have any thing to do with the fact that if you are not in Christ when He died , His death was not for you
Better read again it shows a man is in Christ when he believes

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Better read again it shows a man is in Christ when he believes

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
Man is in Christ way before he believes, if he wasnt in Christ when Christ died, then Christ legally could not have died for his sins, it would not be just !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Man is in Christ way before he believes, if he wasnt in Christ when Christ died, then Christ legally could not have died for his sins, it would not be just !
Sorry you are ignoring scripture to tout a man made theology

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

Man is in Christ way before he believes, if he wasnt in Christ when Christ died, then Christ legally could not have died for his sins, it would not be just !
tom



Its there you just dont understand it !
If it is there you should be able to supply book, chapter and verse

but you cannot for it is a man made doctrine not found in the pages of the bibles
 

TomFL

Well-known member
lol you are imagining things !
Scripture is not imagination

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

men are in Christ when they believe

Unbelievers are not regenerate men

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

It is absurd you could even imagine such
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Scripture is not imagination

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

men are in Christ when they believe

Unbelievers are not regenerate men

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

It is absurd you could even imagine such
No its not. But your understanding of it is
 

TomFL

Well-known member
No its not. But your understanding of it is
As usual you address nothing

Scripture is not imagination

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

men are in Christ when they believe

Unbelievers are not regenerate men

2 Cor. 5:17 —ESV
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

It is absurd you could even imagine such
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Funniest thing I heard all day

All you did is posit the absurd idea that unbelievers can be in Christ and regenerate while in a state of opposition to God

You should be embarrassed to even post such nonsense
The scripture says that the preaching of the cross is to some foolishness or nonsense, have you read that verse ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The scripture says that the preaching of the cross is to some foolishness or nonsense, have you read that verse ?
Sorry preaching that unbelievers opposed to God are already regenerate has nothing at all to do with preachi8ng the cross

That is just your own weird, unbiblical theology speaking
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry preaching that unbelievers opposed to God are already regenerate has nothing at all to do with preachi8ng the cross

That is just your own weird, unbiblical theology speaking
The Gospel Truths I have witnessed to you, you call foolish/nonsense
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The Gospel Truths I have witnessed to you, you call foolish/nonsense
If there was any truth to it you would be able to provide a verse that actually supports it

The idea unbelievers opposed to God care regenerate is just too silly and unbiblical for words
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
If there was any truth to it you would be able to provide a verse that actually supports it

The idea unbelievers opposed to God care regenerate is just too silly and unbiblical for words
The scriptures I have already shown you, you gainsay and reject. Showing you scripture doesnt help your case.

Man is in Christ way before he believes, if he wasnt in Christ when Christ died, then Christ legally could not have died for his sins, it would not be just !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The scriptures I have already shown you, you gainsay and reject. Showing you scripture doesnt help your case.

Man is in Christ way before he believes, if he wasnt in Christ when Christ died, then Christ legally could not have died for his sins, it would not be just !
You have provided no scriptures which state unbelievers opposed to God may be regenerate

You have been citing your theology

Do you not know the difference ?


The bible present truth and contradicts your theology

No where does the bible state

Man is in Christ way before he believes, if he wasnt in Christ when Christ died, then Christ legally could not have died for his sins, it would not be just

that is a product of your own mind an effort to support an unbiblical theology
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You have provided no scriptures which state unbelievers opposed to God may be regenerate

You have been citing your theology

Do you not know the difference ?


The bible present truth and contradicts your theology

No where does the bible state

Man is in Christ way before he believes, if he wasnt in Christ when Christ died, then Christ legally could not have died for his sins, it would not be just

that is a product of your own mind an effort to support an unbiblical theology
I dont even know what you talking about. Everything i testify to I give a scripture for it, you usually evade it or deny it.
 
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