The "T" in TULIP - refuted in one verse.

CrowCross

Super Member
God

but she worshipped God before that

So how does one inflicted with total inability become a worshipper of God
You seemed to have left out Jesus.

You are correct, God opened her heart to receive Jesus. Something that would have been impossible unless the Father granted it to her.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I don't see it working that way. Her obedience afterwards and her baptism had nothing to do with her salvation...but rather were a result of her salvation.
Well certainly I agree with that. I believe one has to already be saved[regenerated] to obey or even to give spiritual attention to the spiritual things of God.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
You seemed to have left out Jesus.

You are correct, God opened her heart to receive Jesus. Something that would have been impossible unless the Father granted it to her.
The question was however how one afflicted with total inability a born hater of God could be a worshipper of God before the lord opened her heart
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The question was however how one afflicted with total inability a born hater of God could be a worshipper of God before the lord opened her heart
When one has been regenerated, their total inability spiritually is gone, because they now have been given spiritual ability by being born of the Spirit. Once born of the Spirit one has the spiritual capacity to worship God and are prepared for Spiritual reception of the Truth, its really simple to understand. In fact cornelius was exactly the same way as Lydia !
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Oh you think one can hate God and truly worship God at the same time

Here's a little bit of commentary for you, Tom...

You are probably here for one of two reasons:

1) To convince Calvinists that they are wrong; or
2) To try to make sure non-Calvinists never become Calvinists.

You remind me of George Bryson, from Calvary Chapel... He said that he's unable to convince any Calvinist that he's wrong, but he can prevent people from becoming Calvinists. He is a master at "poisoning the well", just like you are.

If your purpose is to convince us that we're wrong, then you are going to have to listen to us more carefully, and try to understand what we actually believe. Because currently you don't (either that, or you are INTENTIONALLY misrepresenting what we believe). Your claim that Calvinists don't believe men have wills PROVES you don't understand what we believe.

What you are basically doing (over and over again), is trying to fit our beliefs into YOUR theological framework. And they don't fit. And you think that proves Calvinism false. But it doesn't. All it proves is that your beliefs are not compatible with our beliefs, and we already knew that! You are creating a "Frankenstein" theology by piecing together doctrines from two different theologies and creating a monster theology that nobody believes!

But if your purpose here is to simply make Calvinism sound like a monster, than by all means, continue doing what you're doing. You don't need to actually understand what we believe. You only need to caricature it, and attack straw-men that we don't believe. But I don't consider that to be a very "Christian" practice.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Here's a little bit of commentary for you, Tom...

You are probably here for one of two reasons:

1) To convince Calvinists that they are wrong; or
2) To try to make sure non-Calvinists never become Calvinists.
No thanks this is a theology board

The purpose is to discuss theology not persons

Do you care to answer the question

Oh you think one can hate God and truly worship God at the same time
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
No thanks this is a theology board

The purpose is to discuss theology not persons

What is the purpose of you discussing theology?
To "show" people how much you know/
To gain a better understanding of the Bible?
To convince others to change their beliefs?


Do you care to answer the question

<sigh>
I already did.
I really don't understand your obsession with asking the same question a million times, and then ignoring the answer when we give it.

Oh you think one can hate God and truly worship God at the same time

So now you changed the question.
It doesn't say Lydia "truly worshipped God".
 

CrowCross

Super Member
That means she was born of God prior to receving Jesus Jn 1 12-13
No it doesn't.

There are some who who did receive Jesus, those who believed in Jesus' name...which at the time prior to having her heart opened as Lydia was a non-believer.... He gave the right to become children of God children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. Lydia was not born of God until she became a believer.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No it doesn't.

There are some who who did receive Jesus, those who believed in Jesus' name...which at the time prior to having her heart opened as Lydia was a non-believer.... He gave the right to become children of God children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. Lydia was not born of God until she became a believer.
Yes it does. A no you wrong, you must be born of God in order to become a believer Jn 1:12-13
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Yes it does. A no you wrong, you must be born of God in order to become a believer Jn 1:12-13
Sorry that is not what John states

John 1:12 —ESV
“But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,”

It is those who received who receive power to become born children of God

Children is teknon
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry that is not what John states

John 1:12 —ESV
“But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,”

It is those who received who receive power to become born children of God

Children is teknon
Yes John tells us in Jn 1 13 why they received/believed on Christ. Because they were born of God
 
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