The "T" in TULIP - refuted in one verse.

CrowCross

Well-known member
Sorry it was the same question I have asked you multiple times

Let me put it this way

How can a total depraved sinner with total inability become a worshipper of God before her heart is opened

Total inability according to calvinist would have caused that one to be a hater not a worshipper of God
Who opened her heart?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
theo

If you want me to answer the question of, “what is the remedy for inability”, the answer is God regenerating a person.

That would be the answer. And I believe God does that solely by the Spirit apart from the Gospel.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
theo



That would be the answer. And I believe God does that solely by the Spirit apart from the Gospel.
Are you saying the opening of Lydia heart was not regeneration ?

and if she was regenerated why would she need her heart opened she would have had a new heart
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Who opened her heart?
I actually believe when it says "she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." it entails obedience and submitting to as well, remember she was baptized shortly after that. 1 Pet 1:2

2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Are you saying the opening of Lydia heart was not regeneration ?

and if she was regenerated why would she need her heart opened she would have had a new heart
Yes, it was the fruit of regeneration. God regenerates a person first, then sends them the truth to believe ! God doesnt send a Spiritual Gospel to the natural man unless its for their condemnation. When He sends it to the regenerate, its to reveal to them the word of truth, the Gospel of their Salvation, they have ears to hear it !
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Sorry it was the same question I have asked you multiple times

That's why I gave you the same answer multiple times.
Funny how that works, eh?

And that's why it's been pointless for you to ask it more than once.

How can a total depraved sinner with total inability become a worshipper of God before her heart is opened

Your question is a non sequitur, and therefore cannot be answered.
You would have to demonstrate the relevance and relationship between the two, before there was anything to answer.

It's like asking, "If Mary skipped school on Monday, how can it be raining on Thursday?"
Nonsense.

Total inability according to calvinist would have caused that one to be a hater not a worshipper of God

Why do you ASSUME mutual exclusivity between "hater" and "worshipper of God"? All the latter means is that she went to synagogue, listened, and perhaps sang. It says nothing about the state of her heart. That is YOUR assumption.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
That's why I gave you the same answer multiple times.
Funny how that works, eh?

And that's why it's been pointless for you to ask it more than once.



Your question is a non sequitur, and therefore cannot be answered.
You would have to demonstrate the relevance and relationship between the two, before there was anything to answer.

It's like asking, "If Mary skipped school on Monday, how can it be raining on Thursday?"
Nonsense.



Why do you ASSUME mutual exclusivity between "hater" and "worshipper of God"? All the latter means is that she went to synagogue, listened, and perhaps sang. It says nothing about the state of her heart. That is YOUR assumption.
Oh you think one can hate God and truly worship God at the same time
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Oh you think one can hate God and truly worship God at the same time

It didn't say she "worshipped God".
It says she was "a worshipper of God".

All that means is that she was a Gentile who went to synagogue.
It says nothing about her heart.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
I actually believe when it says "she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." it entails obedience and submitting to as well, remember she was baptized shortly after that. 1 Pet 1:2

2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
I don't see it working that way. Her obedience afterwards and her baptism had nothing to do with her salvation...but rather were a result of her salvation.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
God

but she worshipped God before that

So how does one inflicted with total inability become a worshipper of God
You seemed to have left out Jesus.

You are correct, God opened her heart to receive Jesus. Something that would have been impossible unless the Father granted it to her.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I don't see it working that way. Her obedience afterwards and her baptism had nothing to do with her salvation...but rather were a result of her salvation.
Well certainly I agree with that. I believe one has to already be saved[regenerated] to obey or even to give spiritual attention to the spiritual things of God.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You seemed to have left out Jesus.

You are correct, God opened her heart to receive Jesus. Something that would have been impossible unless the Father granted it to her.
The question was however how one afflicted with total inability a born hater of God could be a worshipper of God before the lord opened her heart
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The question was however how one afflicted with total inability a born hater of God could be a worshipper of God before the lord opened her heart
When one has been regenerated, their total inability spiritually is gone, because they now have been given spiritual ability by being born of the Spirit. Once born of the Spirit one has the spiritual capacity to worship God and are prepared for Spiritual reception of the Truth, its really simple to understand. In fact cornelius was exactly the same way as Lydia !
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Oh you think one can hate God and truly worship God at the same time

Here's a little bit of commentary for you, Tom...

You are probably here for one of two reasons:

1) To convince Calvinists that they are wrong; or
2) To try to make sure non-Calvinists never become Calvinists.

You remind me of George Bryson, from Calvary Chapel... He said that he's unable to convince any Calvinist that he's wrong, but he can prevent people from becoming Calvinists. He is a master at "poisoning the well", just like you are.

If your purpose is to convince us that we're wrong, then you are going to have to listen to us more carefully, and try to understand what we actually believe. Because currently you don't (either that, or you are INTENTIONALLY misrepresenting what we believe). Your claim that Calvinists don't believe men have wills PROVES you don't understand what we believe.

What you are basically doing (over and over again), is trying to fit our beliefs into YOUR theological framework. And they don't fit. And you think that proves Calvinism false. But it doesn't. All it proves is that your beliefs are not compatible with our beliefs, and we already knew that! You are creating a "Frankenstein" theology by piecing together doctrines from two different theologies and creating a monster theology that nobody believes!

But if your purpose here is to simply make Calvinism sound like a monster, than by all means, continue doing what you're doing. You don't need to actually understand what we believe. You only need to caricature it, and attack straw-men that we don't believe. But I don't consider that to be a very "Christian" practice.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Here's a little bit of commentary for you, Tom...

You are probably here for one of two reasons:

1) To convince Calvinists that they are wrong; or
2) To try to make sure non-Calvinists never become Calvinists.
No thanks this is a theology board

The purpose is to discuss theology not persons

Do you care to answer the question

Oh you think one can hate God and truly worship God at the same time
 
Top