The Theology and Semantics of Appropriated Language

[Stirling Bartholomew]

A few years back an intermediate textbook on NT Greek was published with a title which included the phrase Going Deeper. I obtained a copy through InterLibLoan and gave the book favorable mention in the language forums. I have no problems with the book. Book titles are marketing decisions rarely chosen by the authors. Going Deeper seems to currently be a favorite expression in the evangelical industrial complex.

Pardon me while I do a little nitpicking. I've spent half of my life studying biblical languages. The implication that an intermediate textbook has anything to do with Going Deeper bothers me. Biblical languages are not primarily a path to spiritual enlightenment. The English editor of Grimm_Thayer lexicon of NT Greek (Harper Bros 1886) I am holding in my hands was, I was told by Norman Baggs the man that sold it to me for $9.95, a Unitarian. Norman Baggs a bookseller on N. 85th and Greenwood in Seattle was very well informed about these matters. I think we can trust him as a source.

You have probably noticed I tend to get distracted by narrative details when making a point. John Henery Thayer D.D. was a professor at Harvard Divinity School and qualified to translate and enlarge the work a task of decades. Now I wonder if making use of a book which took a Unitarian decades to produce would improve my spiritual life. I think the question itself is impossible to answer because it involves a category error. Language study and ones mystical experiences are not linked in any meaningful manner.

 

[Gary Mac]

A few years back an intermediate textbook on NT Greek was published with a title which included the phrase Going Deeper. I obtained a copy through InterLibLoan and gave the book favorable mention in the language forums. I have no problems with the book. Book titles are marketing decisions rarely chosen by the authors. Going Deeper seems to currently be a favorite expression in the evangelical industrial complex.

Pardon me while I do a little nitpicking. I've spent half of my life studying biblical languages. The implication that an intermediate textbook has anything to do with Going Deeper bothers me. Biblical languages are not primarily a path to spiritual enlightenment. The English editor of Grimm_Thayer lexicon of NT Greek (Harper Bros 1886) I am holding in my hands was, I was told by Norman Baggs the man that sold it to me for $9.95, a Unitarian. Norman Baggs a bookseller on N. 85th and Greenwood in Seattle was very well informed about these matters. I think we can trust him as a source.

You have probably noticed I tend to get distracted by narrative details when making a point. John Henery Thayer D.D. was a professor at Harvard Divinity School and qualified to translate and enlarge the work a task of decades. Now I wonder if making use of a book which took a Unitarian decades to produce would improve my spiritual life. I think the question itself is impossible to answer because it involves a category error. Language study and ones mystical experiences are not linked in any meaningful manner.

You just made me realize why Jesus never wrote anything, but only in demonstration.

 

[e v e]

A few years back an intermediate textbook on NT Greek was published with a title which included the phrase Going Deeper. I obtained a copy through InterLibLoan and gave the book favorable mention in the language forums. I have no problems with the book. Book titles are marketing decisions rarely chosen by the authors. Going Deeper seems to currently be a favorite expression in the evangelical industrial complex.

Pardon me while I do a little nitpicking. I've spent half of my life studying biblical languages. The implication that an intermediate textbook has anything to do with Going Deeper bothers me. Biblical languages are not primarily a path to spiritual enlightenment. The English editor of Grimm_Thayer lexicon of NT Greek (Harper Bros 1886) I am holding in my hands was, I was told by Norman Baggs the man that sold it to me for $9.95, a Unitarian. Norman Baggs a bookseller on N. 85th and Greenwood in Seattle was very well informed about these matters. I think we can trust him as a source.

You have probably noticed I tend to get distracted by narrative details when making a point. John Henery Thayer D.D. was a professor at Harvard Divinity School and qualified to translate and enlarge the work a task of decades. Now I wonder if making use of a book which took a Unitarian decades to produce would improve my spiritual life. I think the question itself is impossible to answer because it involves a category error. Language study and ones mystical experiences are not linked in any meaningful manner.

I think they are linked... because words convey a reality..

On this earth words are used to battle as to what scripture says... (what He says) and the battle is not innocent is it?

Just look at any forum...
where the game is to make sure His Words never win... for His way will always have arrayed against it many pharisees, experts, theologians, etc., all ready to sign statements as to the "official" version they approve and to scoff, to argue from authority, to bully, to attack anything not fitting their own invented version.... leaving a simple soul alone and laughed at for not playing that game.

If terms of scripture are translated according to such types (who never met Him and are not with Him) then what would be the value?

If a large number of canaanite scholars or booksellers or experts of Greek have an opinion, sure, I can read it and then go back to the Greek myself and decide if their point of view corrupted what He has to say... or if that term is valid...because a soul of His can see if He would or would not say what is claimed.

 

[e v e]

You just made me realize why Jesus never wrote anything, but only in demonstration.

as soon as the words were written down they became subject to corruption..
and they had to be written down, because God abandoned the OT fathers,
because they did not listen and obey...and as such...
they could no more hear Him.

That is the meaning of Daniel's vision was sealed. They got cursed,
the same curse still upon modern christianity.

 

[Gary Mac]

as soon as the words were written down they became subject to corruption..

Agreed

and they had to be written down, because God abandoned the OT fathers,

God didnt abandon them , they abandoned God.

because they did not listen and obey...and as such...
they could no more hear Him.

Same today. Either has received form Him and like Him or one is not.

That is the meaning of Daniel's vision was sealed. They got cursed,
the same curse still upon modern christianity.

Yes, either one is like Him or one is not.

 

[e v e]

Agreed

God didnt abandon them , they abandoned God.

Same today. Either has received form Him and like Him or one is not.

Yes, either one is like Him or one is not.

true that they abandoned Him.

 

[Stirling Bartholomew]

I don't ignore these responses. My original post was open ended so I not surprised at diversity in response to it. I not sure what point I was trying to make.

 

[Stirling Bartholomew]

I think they are linked... because words convey a reality..

On this earth words are used to battle as to what scripture says... (what He says) and the battle is not innocent is it?

Just look at any forum...
where the game is to make sure His Words never win... for His way will always have arrayed against it many pharisees, experts, theologians, etc., all ready to sign statements as to the "official" version they approve and to scoff, to argue from authority, to bully, to attack anything not fitting their own invented version.... leaving a simple soul alone and laughed at for not playing that game.

If terms of scripture are translated according to such types (who never met Him and are not with Him) then what would be the value?

If a large number of canaanite scholars or booksellers or experts of Greek have an opinion, sure, I can read it and then go back to the Greek myself and decide if their point of view corrupted what He has to say... or if that term is valid...because a soul of His can see if He would or would not say what is claimed.

 

[e v e]

I don't ignore these responses. My original post was open ended so I not surprised at diversity in response to it. I not sure what point I was trying to make.

Modern christianity is a product of pagan overlay upon christianity using christian terms. It’s a branch of Rome.

Augustine: pagan. The list goes on. When will christians abandon these esau type fathers? They plead sola scriptura and yet then turn to arguments of authority whenever anyone doesn’t follow the wisdom of their collected pastors, scholars and pharisees. Things like chicago statements are simply pope by committee disguised as sola scriptura.

In reality the concept sola scriptura was foisted on christianity by Rome (taking a seemingly good concept but polluting it!) ... why? to ensure the Greek Roman form remains intact. And it has.

 

[Stirling Bartholomew]

Just look at any forum...

I agree about the forums; most of it not very helpful.

 

[Stirling Bartholomew]

Augustine: pagan. The list goes on. When will christians abandon these esau type fathers? They plead sola scriptura and yet then turn to arguments of authority whenever anyone doesn’t follow the wisdom of their collected pastors, scholars and pharisees. Things like chicago statements are simply pope by committee disguised as sola scriptura.

I remember the formation of: The Chicago Statement. When people like Waltke and Enns were wandering professors I just watched and wondered if this was what church was supposed to look like. I didn't agree with Waltke or Enns but it seemed like every institution trying to enforce the statement was having to expel professors. I would read exegetical works by Robert H. Gundry Westmont College and recommend some of his books to friends without a clue where he would stand on the Chicago Statement. It didn't matter because I had read the books and they were good. On the otherhand if you want to study with post-post-modernist people who are crypto-marxists and neopagan mystics then attend any university or most seminaries. That stuff is everywhere almost without exception which is why we need a discussion of questions like Ontology since your professors will be promoting a world view that is antithetical to Historic Christianity.