I have Aaron, it is what is accepted…
How do you prove what's accepted? Clearly, based on what you have told me, other Mormons you talk to don't accept your conclusions. So how do you explain the divergence?
you even admit your views are Aaron-isms.
Because we're talking about deep doctrines: spiritual procreation, and heavenly mothers, etc. - things where speculation is required.
You don’t need to believe me Aaron, but I know what the basic tenants are of the LDS faith…
Yes, but over simplifying those basic tenets, and then making claims like angels don't have celestial glory. You go from basic, to WAY deep.
and I can back up what I wrote here systematically
Ok. Please state your objective, systematic approach, so we can have a rubric to grade you by. I fail to see it.
I guess I totally misread you.
Ok. You asked for my opinion on deeper doctrines, where little "official" doctrines exists, and now your going to beat me over the head with it that I know nothing about my religion.
Ok then. The conversation is going to get very dry from this point. I'll go strictly by the book.
The atonement is two fold…LDS 101. Th first effect of the atonement is that all mankind are saved from Adams transgression, and will be resurrected.
I believe the "official" phrase your referring to is salvation from "physical death."
The second effect is personal salvation, it give man a overt unity to work and merit the kingdom or seated they earn.
Hmmm... interesting. How does that work exactly? How is it measured?
Please provide an exact quote that salvation is earned and merited - seeing as how you're reading off the basic tenets of Mormonism.
There is absolutely no promise of eternal life to a person unless they merit that salvation my obedience to the Laws and ordinances of the Gospel. Read the LDS creed. And the AoF are orthodox.
Yes. I agree. The 4th Article of Faith is absolutely orthodox. Now let's identify what it means.
What is the law of the gospel?
Can you define "salvation"? Or are you getting it confused with exaltation? Or does Mormonism believe there is no difference?
I predict, you're going to get very confused, give up and call it a mess, and use that as evidence of why it's false.
If the atonement offers repentance is that enough?
Yes.
How do you define "repentance"?
“Immortality is assured to all of us through the atonement of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. But eternal life is a personal responsibility we must earn and be worthy of.” – Delbert L. Stapley,”The Path to Eternal Glory”, Ensign, July 1973, p.99
Fascinating how you can't produce a quote generated in the last decade, isn't it?
Here's the link to the full article:
The Path to Eternal Glory
www.churchofjesuschrist.org
How does one earn and be worthy of salvation according to Elder Stapley? He references:
“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:“Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.” (Matt. 13:45–46.)
This is the first commandment, Markk. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
You think you're going to be saved by easy grace do you?
“[E]very man and woman will receive all that they are worthy of,and something thrown in perhaps on the score of the boundless charityof God. But who can justly expect to obtain more than they merit?” -Joseph F. Smith, Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 20:, p.30
This is why your systematic approach needs to be defined. I think it's fair to say that anything specifically says it's not a source of doctrine needs to be counted out. I'm happy to accept this quote if you can find it in an accepted manual, but I'm not going to scour the internet for every quote and put into context that you just pulled off of mrm.
"Journal of Discourses includes interesting and insightful teachings by early Church leaders; however, by itself it is not an authoritative source of Church doctrine."
Gospel topic information and links to additional resources
www.churchofjesuschrist.org
This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, isbased on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” – JosephFielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., 5:, p.82
Answers to gospel questions is also not in the gospel library.
Clearly though, if you gave the anti-thesis of these statements, your clearly comfortable with God accepting the natural man. "Becoming holy" must be a foreign concept to you. Just say the magic prayer, and you're in, and sin no longer exists. Right?
I didn’t write this stuff, these pastes are from a apostle and two prophets…it would be like rejecting Noah, Moses, and Paul…
You clearly didn't pull them from the LDS website. And I doubt you read and held into memory the July 1973 edition of the Ensign.
You got frustrated, so you copied/pasted quotes off of an anti-Mormon website, with no context and understanding, and you back up you claim with an appeal to authority.
All this tells me is how much you lack understanding, Markk. Your systematic approach is reading off the anti playbook.
Yep. Easy gracism is a fallacy. Salvation does require that we forsake sin. Obviously, you don't want to post any quotes that refer to grace and you know - WHY we take the sacrament every week.
If this is the direction you're going. I have better uses of my time.