The Trinitarian Delusion

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
I unmask antibiblical teachings.

Jesus said:

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

I didn't say that, it was Jesus who said it. His brothers HAVE THE SAME FATHER AND GOD he has.
That means: if you do not have the same God and Father of him, you're out of the brotherhood ... like it or not.

Am I your enemy because I tell you the truth?

You can repeat this as many times as you like. It still doesn't touch the Trinitarian position because Jesus living as a man would of course look to the Father was his God. On the other hand, John straight up says that when Isaiah said "I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, YHWH of hosts." (Isaiah 6:5) he was seeing Jesus (cf John 12:41; 1:18). Have fun dealing with everything John says. After all, Jesus is Thomas' personal God and Lord (cf John 20:28).

God Bless
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
How would you know?
I know the scriptures

Are you trying to make me laugh? If you knew the Scripture so well, why act like I said nothing. Why not go to those texts and show me to be wrong. Oh yeah, you can't because you know I'm right. I have "obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ."

You were so quick to dismiss them there is no way for you to know what they teach.
They are contrary to the scriptures.

Scripture cannot be contrary to Scripture. You dismissed those verses because you don't believe what they teach.

While purposefully refusing to understand what we are saying. Even if all your definitions are Biblical and all of ours are anti-biblical, your refusal to interact with our definitions is a primary reason why all of your comments ring empty. You simply don't understand what we are saying eliminating any possibility that you can tear down our position.
What is there to understand? You said God is a trinity. The scriptures say Jesus is the son of God. When I ask you is the trinity is Jesus father you say no. If the trinity is not Jesus father how could Jesus be the son of God in your theology?

"What is there to understand?"—And, that's your problem. You're so busy trying to justify your own understanding that you never bother to understand what someone else is saying as to refute it.

Why won't you answer my question? Why do you think that "Therefore three distinct Gods" is warranted?
I did answer your question. You call them each distinct person God. and they are not each other. The reason we are having this discussion is because you are claiming Jesus is God. You say he is not his father so he and his father cannot be the same God

You just rephrased the same issue. Why "so he and his father cannot be the same God"? I don't believe that. No Trinitarian believes that. So, what part of your thinking requires you to jump from "they are not each other" with respect to personhood to they "cannot be the same God"?

And, I don't jump to the conclusion of three Gods; that is solely based upon your human philosophy.
If each individual is not an individual God why call them God the father , God the son and God the HS and say they are not each other?

Because, each person, as to their nature, is the only God that exists.

If God the father is not an individual God, why does Jesus call him the only true God?

Because, the Father is, as to his nature, the only God that exists.

God Bess
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Nope, just one person with two natures.
Where does the Bible say that Jesus had two natures?

"Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." Philippians 2: 6-7. Jesus was by nature God and took up the nature of a human.

God Bless
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Trinitarians justify their faith in that incomprehensible idea of a God in three with a lot of philosophical phraseology that not even they themselves understand. It is obvious that they believe in something they do not understand because someone told them they had to believe it, and frightened them into believing that they are going to hell if they do not accept it as truth even if they don't understand it.

That intimidation procedure is typical of the Devil and his minions... like in the dark times of the Inquisition.

The Bible indicates that divine truths are understandable, "studyable", and verifiable by appropriate biblical reasoning. True beliefs are not mysterious or dark; you do not have to philosophize to defend them, but rather quote the Scriptures that present them with simplicity. This is how in the first century many Gentiles came to know Jehovah as the true God and then, also, like the Jewish converts, came to accept Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of Jehovah.

1 Pet. 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for you, 5 who are being safeguarded by God’s power through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last period of time.

Eph. 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ, 4 as he chose us to be in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and unblemished before him in love. 5 For he foreordained us to be adopted as his own sons through Jesus Christ, according to his good pleasure and will, 6 in praise of his glorious undeserved kindness that he kindly bestowed on us by means of his beloved one. 7 By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness.

Lilel01 likes to tell stories while not actually interacting with what other people say. This way he can pretend to save face while not actually refuting anything the other side is actually saying.

God Bless
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Nope, just one person with two natures.
You keep arguing that Jesus is God but now you have relegated him to a person with two natures. Why isn't Jesus God in your sentence? How many natures does God have?

It's not like our position on Jesus and God hasn't been written down for all to read, understand and critique for some 1500 years. Oh wait a minute, it has. Why are you surprised? Try reading what our actual position is before making a fool of yourself again by expressing such ignorance. These topics are covered in the Nicene creed (325 AD, and amended 381 AD) and in the Athanasian Creed (written sometime in the 400s). The Trinity teaches that there is three persons who are the same God. While, the doctrine of the duel natures of Christ teaches that Jesus is one person with two natures.

God Bless
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
It's not like our position on Jesus and God hasn't been written down for all to read, understand and critique for some 1500 years.
It's not like you are answering my questions. Your position is not scripture. The trinity is not the father of Jesus.
Oh wait a minute, it has. Why are you surprised? Try reading what our actual position is before making a fool of yourself again by expressing such ignorance.
Your actual position is written in the Athanasian Creed. But not in the scriptures.
These topics are covered in the Nicene creed (325 AD, and amended 381 AD) and in the Athanasian Creed (written sometime in the 400s).
I suppose you don't know that those creeds are not scriptures.

The Trinity teaches that there is three persons who are the same God.
The trinity is not a teacher of the scriptures. The trinity is a false teacher.
While, the doctrine of the duel natures of Christ teaches that Jesus is one person with two natures.
There is no doctrine of dual natures written by the apostles. Here you are arguing that Jesus is a person with two natures. Is God a person with two natures? According to you God is a trinity. So how is Jesus God?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Are you trying to make me laugh?
What for?
If you knew the Scripture so well, why act like I said nothing.
Because what you said and nothing are the same.
Why not go to those texts and show me to be wrong. Oh yeah, you can't because you know I'm right.
The scripture is right, your comments are wrong.
I have "obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ."
All believers who have obtained such faith know that God is the father of Jesus Christ.
Scripture cannot be contrary to Scripture.
Correct Jesus said in the scriptures God is his father.
You dismissed those verses because you don't believe what they teach.
I dismiss your misunderstanding of the verse. If the verse teach that Jesus is God then it is teaching contrary to Jesus being the son of God.Which he himself said he is.
"What is there to understand?"—And, that's your problem.
How is that my problem? The verse says God (who I know as the father of Jesus ) and Saviour Jesus Christ. (who I know as the son who God sent to be the saviour of the world)
You're so busy trying to justify your own understanding that you never bother to understand what someone else is saying as to refute it.
That is not my understanding it is written in the scriptures.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Did God send Jesus to be the saviour of the world? Yes or No?
You just rephrased the same issue. Why "so he and his father cannot be the same God"?
The scriptures does not say that he and his father are the same God.
I don't believe that. No Trinitarian believes that. So, what part of your thinking requires you to jump from "they are not each other" with respect to personhood to they "cannot be the same God"?
Trinitarians teach they are not each other. There is nothing in the scriptures that says with respect to personhood the father is not God.How does being a person make God the father not God? Please explain at what point the father is not God.
Because, each person, as to their nature, is the only God that exists.
First of all want you to cite that passage in the scriptures. Then explain how each individual person is not an individual God as you assumed. It seem you are saying the individual person is not God then together they are God. That flies in the face of God the father God the son and God the HS. They don't exist since God the trinity is the only God who exist in your doctrine. So you cannot argue Jesus is God because you deny he is God when he is a person.
Because, the Father is, as to his nature, the only God that exists.
Are you saying there are three only Gods that exist. The father is the only god the son is the only god and the HS is the only God but they are not each other. Or are these three gods each other?
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
So, you interpret the Father as "our Great God and Savior", and Jesus Christ is "the glory" of the Father? Interesting. At least, such a response is far, far more sophisticated than all the nonsensical excuses non-Trinitarian usually make. Have you "obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ"?

2 Peter 1:1 that you quoted is very similer to Titus 2:13, for there Peter is calling Jesus "The righteouness of our God and Savior" and do you not remember that Paul in another passage said this, 'for he made him (JESUS),who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf THAT, WE MIGHT BE MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM".

Paul is very clearly telling us that Jesus traded places with us on the cross, and he became what we are in God's sit and which is sin, that we might become what he is in the sight of God and that is "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF OUR GOD AND SAVIOR".

If we can be made the righteousness of God in Christ, it only stands to reason that he held this title before us and he therefore became what we are in the eyes of God that we might be made what he is and that is "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD".

THEREFORE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WAS FIRST MANIFESTED IN THE SON AND NOW THROUGH THE SON AND BECAUSE OF THE SON, IT IS ALSO MANIFESTED IN ALL TRUE BELIEVERS.

No, the above is expression of exasperation in light of all the hubris filled responses that generally lack meaningful interaction with Scripture. I'm trying to drag you Unitarians kicking and screaming back into Scripture. And, you can't say this response does't perfectly describe your actions in the previous comment. I'm not repeating it this time because you actually interacted with Scripture. Keep it up.

God Bless

I think it is only fair to you that I explain that I believe there are just as many so called "Unitarians" that are in apostasy as there are Trinitarians and there are many of them who believe that a man is saved by both works and grace and which is probably one of the worse false doctrines that can be taught by men.

For this was the real reason why the Jews killed Jesus, because he revealed that the Jews were not even able to keep the law of Moses in which they trusted to save them, and therefore they were a bunch of hypocrites and he preached the woes sermon against them and they hated him for it.

We see it was the same offence in the book of Acts also, it was all about the law and what place the Law of Moses really had with God and that no man could be justified with God through the Law and this is why the disciples of Jesus were hated by the Jews just like Jesus was also.

Now addressing your arrogant words above, how do you think that you will be able to as you say "I am trying to drage you Unitarians kicking and screaming back unto the scriptures" when you are not believing the scriptures yourself?

You need to get the log (your flesh) out of your own eye first to be able to see clearly to remove the splinter out of their eyes, for at least they have correct that God is one single person and being, while you do not.


NOW BACK TO THE POINT, WHEN THE SCRIPTURES CALL JESUS THE SON OF GOD AND YOU CLAIM THAT HE IS ALSO GOD, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO EXCUSE YOURSELF FROM IT, BUT YOU ARE ACTUALLY CLAIMING THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF HIMSELF AND BEING YOU BELIEVE GOD IS TRINITY, YOU ARE ALSO CLAIMING THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF THE TRINITY AS WELL.


YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING EITHER, BUT THAT IS ACTUALLY WHAT YOU END UP WITH BECAUSE YOU SAY HE IS ALSO GOD AND YOU BELIEVE GOD IS A TRINITY.
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
2 Peter 1:1 that you quoted is very similer to Titus 2:13, for there Peter is calling Jesus "The righteouness of our God and Savior" and do you not remember that Paul in another passage said this, 'for he made him (JESUS),who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf THAT, WE MIGHT BE MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM".

Paul is very clearly telling us that Jesus traded places with us on the cross, and he became what we are in God's sit and which is sin, that we might become what he is in the sight of God and that is "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF OUR GOD AND SAVIOR".

If we can be made the righteousness of God in Christ, it only stands to reason that he held this title before us and he therefore became what we are in the eyes of God that we might be made what he is and that is "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD".

THEREFORE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WAS FIRST MANIFESTED IN THE SON AND NOW THROUGH THE SON AND BECAUSE OF THE SON, IT IS ALSO MANIFESTED IN ALL TRUE BELIEVERS.



I think it is only fair to you that I explain that I believe there are just as many so called "Unitarians" that are in apostasy as there are Trinitarians and there are many of them who believe that a man is saved by both works and grace and which is probably one of the worse false doctrines that can be taught by men.

For this was the real reason why the Jews killed Jesus, because he revealed that the Jews were not even able to keep the law of Moses in which they trusted to save them, and therefore they were a bunch of hypocrites and he preached the woes sermon against them and they hated him for it.

We see it was the same offence in the book of Acts also, it was all about the law and what place the Law of Moses really had with God and that no man could be justified with God through the Law and this is why the disciples of Jesus were hated by the Jews just like Jesus was also.

Now addressing your arrogant words above, how do you think that you will be able to as you say "I am trying to drage you Unitarians kicking and screaming back unto the scriptures" when you are not believing the scriptures yourself?

You need to get the log (your flesh) out of your own eye first to be able to see clearly to remove the splinter out of their eyes, for at least they have correct that God is one single person and being, while you do not.


NOW BACK TO THE POINT, WHEN THE SCRIPTURES CALL JESUS THE SON OF GOD AND YOU CLAIM THAT HE IS ALSO GOD, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO EXCUSE YOURSELF FROM IT, BUT YOU ARE ACTUALLY CLAIMING THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF HIMSELF AND BEING YOU BELIEVE GOD IS TRINITY, YOU ARE ALSO CLAIMING THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF THE TRINITY AS WELL.


YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING EITHER, BUT THAT IS ACTUALLY WHAT YOU END UP WITH BECAUSE YOU SAY HE IS ALSO GOD AND YOU BELIEVE GOD IS A TRINITY.
Lol he thinks Jesus' father is a trinity of which Jesus himself is part. That also makes his father a trinity, I suppose he prays,,, our trinity who art in heaven...
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You reject the only Scripture that exists. Have you "obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ"?
No' -- I have obtained the same faith Jesus had in his God who sent him as well. Your faith is in the creed that you worship instead.

I have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
If you had then you would be exactly as Jesus was in his God who sent him and walk as Jesus walks in his God who did send him.
And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
You pretend to live the same life as Jesus lived in his God who sent him is all.

You pretend to be like Jesus when you couldn't be more different.
I do not pretend to be like Jesus was in the Father at all, I am exactly as Jesus was in our Father who is God and Jesus was my brother, we have the same Father who is God and walk in His same light of mind, Spirit.

Your pretension has you fooled, Jesus is not your brother, you have made the man who is supposed to be your brother your god instead. .


How is pretending to submit to God while spitting in his face?
By rejecting to receive from God the same as Jesus received from Him in Matt 3:16 yourself.
When was the last time you walked on water?
I walk on those storms every day just as Jesus did.

Sense you say you have the faith of Christ, when was the last time you waked on water?
Or, ran into Moses and Elijah on the top of a mountain?
I ran into the same God as these did on the mountain, so did Jesus in Matt 3:16.
Look at Scripture teach the personal distinction between the Father and Son while not denying the Trinity.
Look at scripture who you are supposed to be like Him as Jesus was like Him to be His son yourself as Jesus was His son, and be in His same image, and walk as He walks in His same light of mind. Perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, righteous, holy, pure, and without sin.

That is what my bible teaches and that is what Jesus taught in it.
God Bless
Amen -- In the valleys as well as on the mountain top.
 
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Gary Mac

Well-known member
Jesus in heaven has a God:

Rev. 3:12 The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
Yes and that new Jerusalem was opened in Jesus in Matt 3:16 just as it is in us all who God has come and opend in us a new heaven and earth no different from that He opened in Jesus.
The word "God" for trinitarians is whatever but what it really is.
The word God is only derived and short for Good.
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
It's not like our position on Jesus and God hasn't been written down for all to read, understand and critique for some 1500 years.
It's not like you are answering my questions. Your position is not scripture. The trinity is not the father of Jesus.
Oh wait a minute, it has. Why are you surprised? Try reading what our actual position is before making a fool of yourself again by expressing such ignorance.
Your actual position is written in the Athanasian Creed. But not in the scriptures.
These topics are covered in the Nicene creed (325 AD, and amended 381 AD) and in the Athanasian Creed (written sometime in the 400s).
I suppose you don't know that those creeds are not scriptures.

Expressions of abject immaturity.
Why not go to those texts and show me to be wrong. Oh yeah, you can't because you know I'm right.
The scripture is right, your comments are wrong.

Oh, you are too immature to actually deal with Scripture. You only know how to express hubris.
I have "obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ."
All believers who have obtained such faith know that God is the father of Jesus Christ.

I'm quoting Scripture you silly, silly man.

Scripture cannot be contrary to Scripture.
Correct Jesus said in the scriptures God is his father.
You dismissed those verses because you don't believe what they teach.
I dismiss your misunderstanding of the verse. If the verse teach that Jesus is God then it is teaching contrary to Jesus being the son of God.Which he himself said he is.

You didn't just dismiss my understanding. You dismissed those verses because you don't believe what they teach as you just did again with 2 Peter 1:1.

You just rephrased the same issue. Why "so he and his father cannot be the same God"?
The scriptures does not say that he and his father are the same God.

Scripture does not say "he and his father cannot be the same God". So, Why do you say "so, he and his father cannot be the same God"?
I don't believe that. No Trinitarian believes that. So, what part of your thinking requires you to jump from "they are not each other" with respect to personhood to they "cannot be the same God"?
Trinitarians teach they are not each other. There is nothing in the scriptures that says with respect to personhood the father is not God.How does being a person make God the father not God? Please explain at what point the father is not God.

No Trinitarian believes that. So, what part of your thinking requires you to jump from "they are not each other" with respect to personhood to they "cannot be the same God"?
Because, each person, as to their nature, is the only God that exists.
First of all want you to cite that passage in the scriptures. Then explain how each individual person is not an individual God as you assumed. It seem you are saying the individual person is not God then together they are God. That flies in the face of God the father God the son and God the HS. They don't exist since God the trinity is the only God who exist in your doctrine. So you cannot argue Jesus is God because you deny he is God when he is a person.

I have quoted Scripture, you ignore it. Why waste my time quoting Scripture if your not going to read it anyway?
Because, the Father is, as to his nature, the only God that exists.
Are you saying there are three only Gods that exist. The father is the only god the son is the only god and the HS is the only God but they are not each other. Or are these three gods each other?

What part of your thinking requires you to jump from "the Father is, as to his nature, the only God that exists." to they "there are three only Gods that exist."? You have quite the imagination.

God Bless
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
So, you interpret the Father as "our Great God and Savior", and Jesus Christ is "the glory" of the Father? Interesting. At least, such a response is far, far more sophisticated than all the nonsensical excuses non-Trinitarian usually make. Have you "obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ"?

2 Peter 1:1 that you quoted is very similer to Titus 2:13, for there Peter is calling Jesus "The righteouness of our God and Savior" and do you not remember that Paul in another passage said this, 'for he made him (JESUS),who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf THAT, WE MIGHT BE MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM".

Paul is very clearly telling us that Jesus traded places with us on the cross, and he became what we are in God's sit and which is sin, that we might become what he is in the sight of God and that is "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF OUR GOD AND SAVIOR".

If we can be made the righteousness of God in Christ, it only stands to reason that he held this title before us and he therefore became what we are in the eyes of God that we might be made what he is and that is "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD".

THEREFORE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WAS FIRST MANIFESTED IN THE SON AND NOW THROUGH THE SON AND BECAUSE OF THE SON, IT IS ALSO MANIFESTED IN ALL TRUE BELIEVERS.

Interesting. Jesus' righteousness doesn't save us in your book? Our sins are not imputed to Christ and Christ's righteousness isn't imputed to us?

FYI, 2 Corinthians 5:21 says we are made the righteousness of God, not Jesus. Is it fun basing your theology on statements like "it only stands to reason that he held this title before us"? FYI, we are made the righteousness of God because we are made righteous by God. Such is not true of Jesus. He was always righteous. Try again.

No, the above is expression of exasperation in light of all the hubris filled responses that generally lack meaningful interaction with Scripture. I'm trying to drag you Unitarians kicking and screaming back into Scripture. And, you can't say this response does't perfectly describe your actions in the previous comment. I'm not repeating it this time because you actually interacted with Scripture. Keep it up.
I think it is only fair to you that I explain that I believe there are just as many so called "Unitarians" that are in apostasy as there are Trinitarians and there are many of them who believe that a man is saved by both works and grace and which is probably one of the worse false doctrines that can be taught by men.

For this was the real reason why the Jews killed Jesus, because he revealed that the Jews were not even able to keep the law of Moses in which they trusted to save them, and therefore they were a bunch of hypocrites and he preached the woes sermon against them and they hated him for it.

We see it was the same offence in the book of Acts also, it was all about the law and what place the Law of Moses really had with God and that no man could be justified with God through the Law and this is why the disciples of Jesus were hated by the Jews just like Jesus was also.

Story telling. Nothing bad here, just a lot of extra words.

Now addressing your arrogant words above, how do you think that you will be able to as you say "I am trying to drage you Unitarians kicking and screaming back unto the scriptures" when you are not believing the scriptures yourself?

I do believe the Scripture myself. It's actually quite disheartening seeing all these people claim to base their theology on Scripture while practically never touching it. How often do you see those on your side of things go to scripture first? How often is the first response when the other side references a verse is dig into that verse to see what it says. You've done far better. Keep it up.

You need to get the log (your flesh) out of your own eye first to be able to see clearly to remove the splinter out of their eyes, for at least they have correct that God is one single person and being, while you do not.

NOW BACK TO THE POINT, WHEN THE SCRIPTURES CALL JESUS THE SON OF GOD AND YOU CLAIM THAT HE IS ALSO GOD, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO EXCUSE YOURSELF FROM IT, BUT YOU ARE ACTUALLY CLAIMING THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF HIMSELF AND BEING YOU BELIEVE GOD IS TRINITY, YOU ARE ALSO CLAIMING THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF THE TRINITY AS WELL.

Sorry, but there is no logical reason whatsoever to believe I'm actually claiming that Jesus is the Son of himself. Such is nothing but the expression of one choosing not to listen to the other side. Jesus, the Second person of the Trinity, is the Son of God, aka the First Person of the Trinity. That's our position, and there is no way of see such as Jesus is the son of himself.

God Bless
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
You reject the only Scripture that exists. Have you "obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ"?
No' -- I have obtained the same faith Jesus had in his God who sent him as well. Your faith is in the creed that you worship instead.

Hello, those are the words of Peter, the Apostle. And, you claim to reject said faith. In other words, you are not part of Christ's Church. You arrogantly think you can make your own assembly. Have fun making up your own religion. Muhammad and Joseph Smith seemed to enjoy the process. How many wives are you going to have?

I have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
If you had then you would be exactly as Jesus was in his God who sent him and walk as Jesus walks in his God who did send him.

Sorry, I don't believe the words of heretics like you. If you want to prove something, Use Scripture.
You pretend to be like Jesus when you couldn't be more different.
I do not pretend to be like Jesus was in the Father at all, I am exactly as Jesus was in our Father who is God and Jesus was my brother, we have the same Father who is God and walk in His same light of mind, Spirit.
Your pretension has you fooled, Jesus is not your brother, you have made the man who is supposed to be your brother your god instead.

Are you "the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation."? You are nothing like Jesus.
When was the last time you walked on water?
I walk on those storms every day just as Jesus did.
Sense you say you have the faith of Christ, when was the last time you waked on water?

Jesus literally walked on water. You play games with figurative language, imposter.

Or, ran into Moses and Elijah on the top of a mountain?
I ran into the same God as these did on the mountain, so did Jesus in Matt 3:16.

Not the same thing, imposter.
Look at Scripture teach the personal distinction between the Father and Son while not denying the Trinity.
Look at scripture who you are supposed to be like Him as Jesus was like Him to be His son yourself as Jesus was His son, and be in His same image, and walk as He walks in His same light of mind. Perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, righteous, holy, pure, and without sin.
That is what my bible teaches and that is what Jesus taught in it.

Sorry, I don't believe the words of heretics like you. If you want to prove something, Use Scripture.

God Bless
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
What for?

Because what you said and nothing are the same.

The scripture is right, your comments are wrong.

All believers who have obtained such faith know that God is the father of Jesus Christ.

Correct Jesus said in the scriptures God is his father.

I dismiss your misunderstanding of the verse. If the verse teach that Jesus is God then it is teaching contrary to Jesus being the son of God.Which he himself said he is.

How is that my problem? The verse says God (who I know as the father of Jesus ) and Saviour Jesus Christ. (who I know as the son who God sent to be the saviour of the world)

That is not my understanding it is written in the scriptures.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Did God send Jesus to be the saviour of the world? Yes or No?

The scriptures does not say that he and his father are the same God.

Trinitarians teach they are not each other. There is nothing in the scriptures that says with respect to personhood the father is not God.How does being a person make God the father not God? Please explain at what point the father is not God.

First of all want you to cite that passage in the scriptures. Then explain how each individual person is not an individual God as you assumed. It seem you are saying the individual person is not God then together they are God. That flies in the face of God the father God the son and God the HS. They don't exist since God the trinity is the only God who exist in your doctrine. So you cannot argue Jesus is God because you deny he is God when he is a person.

Are you saying there are three only Gods that exist. The father is the only god the son is the only god and the HS is the only God but they are not each other. Or are these three gods each other?
These three Persons are The ONE God.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Interesting. Jesus' righteousness doesn't save us in your book? Our sins are not imputed to Christ and Christ's righteousness isn't imputed to us?


Is that the best pig pork you can deliver for an argument on this?

Sorry but like usual you don't know what you are talking about!
FYI, 2 Corinthians 5:21 says we are made the righteousness of God, not Jesus. Is it fun basing your theology on statements like "it only stands to reason that he held this title before us"? FYI, we are made the righteousness of God because we are made righteous by God. Such is not true of Jesus. He was always righteous. Try again.

It doesn't have to say it for it to be true and by the way, does the scriptures actually say that God is a trinity?

If you want to say that Matthew 28:19 says this forget it because it doesn't and if it did, there should be way more in the scriptures speaks of it explicitly, being God is not the deceiver who says things and does things underhanded but rather Satan is.

What the scriptures do say and very explicitly also, is that Jesus both received his life from God and also lived because of God and actually the same way that we now live because of him, for that is what those words "just as and so" mean in the text.

Therefore being he received his life from the Father and also lives because of the Father it becomes a no brainer to anyone who isn't as deceived as you, that his righteousness comes from God also and in fact he does explicitly say this in John 14:10 below.

John 14:10 The words that I speak are not mind but it is the Father who dwells within me, he is doing the works.

Now while you would like to argue that the works Jesus did were coming from himself as God, both Jesus and Peter said otherwise in the above and in the below passages.


Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.

Story telling. Nothing bad here, just a lot of extra words.

It isn't a story but the facts and it is also something that proves that none of the discples could have been teaching that Jesus was God,, for if they were, you would see a record of this in the book of Acts and you don't and if you think this doesn't mean anything, think again, for it is a record of how the Holy Spirit worked through the early church.
I do believe the Scripture myself. It's actually quite disheartening seeing all these people claim to base their theology on Scripture while practically never touching it. How often do you see those on your side of things go to scripture first? How often is the first response when the other side references a verse is dig into that verse to see what it says. You've done far better. Keep it up.
No you don't believe what the scriptures teach, and the people that never touch their Bible would be those in your churches because they that all they need to do is take notes of what the paster teaches them and that is because they have no spiritual energy or desire to make sure that what they are being taugh it the truth.

I know this for a fact, because I used to be a teacher in one of your churches but I also saw this amongs others who belong to other of your churches also and the fact is, they are lazy and careless with the word of God and therefore they will buy anything that they are taught until they are so brainwashed in it, that they couldn't turn from it even if they wanted to.
Sorry, but there is no logical reason whatsoever to believe I'm actually claiming that Jesus is the Son of himself. Such is nothing but the expression of one choosing not to listen to the other side. Jesus, the Second person of the Trinity, is the Son of God, aka the First Person of the Trinity. That's our position, and there is no way of see such as Jesus is the son of himself.

God Bless

Sorry but yes there is and I wouldn't expect you to see this about your doctrine because it all goes along with the deception that you have willingly allowed yourself to come into the bondage of and by the way, I believe that your ship is wrecked now anyhow and to the point of no return also and just like what happened to the apostate Jews as being your model and type for the NT.

 
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