The Trinitarian Delusion

Expressions of abject immaturity.
Now you are starting personal attacks. Please don't cry when you get the returns. deal with the question...Is the trinity jesus' father. You are claiming God is a trinity... Jesus is the son of God...
Oh, you are too immature to actually deal with Scripture. You only know how to express hubris.
I am dealing with the scriptures you are not dealing with the scriptures when you say God is a trinity.
I'm quoting Scripture you silly, silly man.
Ok since you want to be exposed again...
CJB
From: Shim‘on Kefa, a slave and emissary of Yeshua the Messiah To: Those who, through the righteousness of our God and of our Deliverer Yeshua the Messiah, have been given the same kind of trust as ours:

You do know that the word Christ is translated from Messiah, don't you? It means anointed. So to clarify...God is the father of Jesus the Messiah. Do you think Christ is Jesus' surname? Well it is not. It is a title given to him. Actually it is a title given to men. Not God.

You didn't just dismiss my understanding. You dismissed those verses because you don't believe what they teach as you just did again with 2 Peter 1:1.
I dismissed your misunderstanding. You do not understand that Christ means Messiah. Think about that every time you see the word Christ. God is not the Messiah. God is the father of the messiah.
Scripture does not say "he and his father cannot be the same God".
Scripture does not say he and his father can be the same God either. You are trying to sell me God and his son is the same God. That would make Jesus a liar since Jesus said his father is the only true God.
So, Why do you say "so, he and his father cannot be the same God"?
Because he is not his father. If they are the same God then he is his father.
No Trinitarian believes that.
No trinitarian believes the scriptures. If the did they wouldn't be mistaking the messiah for his father.
So, what part of your thinking requires you to jump from "they are not each other" with respect to personhood to they "cannot be the same God"?
What part of your thinking makes you jump to they are the same God in the first place. Does the scripture say they are the same god?
I have quoted Scripture, you ignore it. Why waste my time quoting Scripture if your not going to read it anyway?
You quote scripture then derail the scriptures with your comments.
What part of your thinking requires you to jump from "the Father is, as to his nature, the only God that exists." to they "there are three only Gods that exist."? You have quite the imagination.
Is the father the only God that exist in your theology? You have three persons that exist as the only God. Your ignorance in unmatched on this forum bro.
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Because, each person, as to their nature, is the only God that exists.
 
So since you have the triune God, and no Gods in the triune God. Tell us which God is your father. And tell us why you argue Jesus a person who is not God is God?
Can you tell us who Ezekiel saw in Chapter 1-2.
Then explain who Isaiah saw in Chapter 6.
After explaining who was seen as everyone knows the Father could not be seen then tell us who made Humanity as we believe we were made by God. Who is ‘US’ and ‘OUR’ as spoken by God in Genesis.
All things were made by Him as John and Colossians say.
He said He preexisted and Christians can quote what He said. Also we have:
But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me

The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,

From everlasting.”

Do you stand with the uni’s who claim He is a mere man?

John 8:45
But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

For I came down from heaven
, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
 
Then explain who Isaiah saw in Chapter 6.

Isaiah saw Yahweh !!!

Isaiah 6:5... Then I said, “Woe is me, for I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, Yahweh of hosts.”

Do you stand with the trin’s who claim Isaiah saw A MEMBER OF Yahweh?
 
Can you tell us who Ezekiel saw in Chapter 1-2.
Then explain who Isaiah saw in Chapter 6.
They saw God in a form that allows men to see him. God id a spirit, spirits are not material.
After explaining who was seen as everyone knows the Father could not be seen then tell us who made Humanity as we believe we were made by God. Who is ‘US’ and ‘OUR’ as spoken by God in Genesis.
I have shown you the scriptures that explains this many times...
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
All things were made by Him as John and Colossians say.
He said He preexisted and Christians can quote what He said. Also we have:
But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me

The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,

From everlasting.”
What part of ...God made all things bu his son Jesus...do you not understand?
Do you stand with the uni’s who claim He is a mere man?
A man is a man what do you mean by mere? Jesus the son of God was born a man just like any other man.
John 8:45
But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
Believe this...
John 16:27
For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

For I came down from heaven
, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
That explains that Jesus is not God but the son of God. You have not shown any scripture to make Jesus God.
 
Interesting. Jesus' righteousness doesn't save us in your book? Our sins are not imputed to Christ and Christ's righteousness isn't imputed to us?
Is that the best pig pork you can deliver for an argument on this?
Sorry but like usual you don't know what you are talking about!

I'm asking questions, not making an argument here.

FYI, 2 Corinthians 5:21 says we are made the righteousness of God, not Jesus. Is it fun basing your theology on statements like "it only stands to reason that he held this title before us"? FYI, we are made the righteousness of God because we are made righteous by God. Such is not true of Jesus. He was always righteous. Try again.
It doesn't have to say it for it to be true and by the way,

True, but it doesn't say it so the reason you gave to justify Jesus is the righteousness of God in 2 Peter 1:1 is fallacious.

and by the way, does the scriptures actually say that God is a trinity?
If you want to say that Matthew 28:19 says this forget it because it doesn't and if it did, there should be way more in the scriptures speaks of it explicitly, being God is not the deceiver who says things and does things underhanded but rather Satan is.

What the scriptures do say and very explicitly also, is that Jesus both received his life from God and also lived because of God and actually the same way that we now live because of him, for that is what those words "just as and so" mean in the text.

Therefore being he received his life from the Father and also lives because of the Father it becomes a no brainer to anyone who isn't as deceived as you, that his righteousness comes from God also and in fact he does explicitly say this in John 14:10 below.

This sounds like you're desperately trying to win the argument before any serious consideration of the verses in question. It's all off topic; so, I'll move on.

John 14:10 The words that I speak are not mind but it is the Father who dwells within me, he is doing the works.
Now while you would like to argue that the works Jesus did were coming from himself as God, both Jesus and Peter said otherwise in the above and in the below passages.
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.

In reality, there are many Trinitarians who say all the works Jesus did were not coming from himself as God, but the Spirit working through him as an example for us. Notice, I've never said anything like "the works Jesus did were coming from himself as God". Maybe, you shouldn't make assumptions about why we say what we say.

Story telling. Nothing bad here, just a lot of extra words.
It isn't a story but the facts and it is also something that proves that none of the discples could have been teaching that Jesus was God,, for if they were, you would see a record of this in the book of Acts and you don't and if you think this doesn't mean anything, think again, for it is a record of how the Holy Spirit worked through the early church.

And, the reason why you choose to give these "facts"? Notice, I said there was nothing bad here. You just decide to go on a rant. A rant on topics that diffenaately didn't prove "none of the discples could have been teaching that Jesus was God."

I do believe the Scripture myself. It's actually quite disheartening seeing all these people claim to base their theology on Scripture while practically never touching it. How often do you see those on your side of things go to scripture first? How often is the first response when the other side references a verse is dig into that verse to see what it says. You've done far better. Keep it up.
No you don't believe what the scriptures teach, and the people that never touch their Bible would be those in your churches because they that all they need to do is take notes of what the paster teaches them and that is because they have no spiritual energy or desire to make sure that what they are being taugh it the truth.

I know this for a fact, because I used to be a teacher in one of your churches but I also saw this amongs others who belong to other of your churches also and the fact is, they are lazy and careless with the word of God and therefore they will buy anything that they are taught until they are so brainwashed in it, that they couldn't turn from it even if they wanted to.

Thank you for your opinion. But, I seriously doubt you were in a Church that was close to the type of church I attend. I'm a five point Calvinist. I'm not a dispensationalist. I hold to Covenant Theology. If you know anything about us Reformed Baptists, you would know we are nothing like typical know-nothing evangelicals. But, have fun making yourself feel better.

Sorry, but there is no logical reason whatsoever to believe I'm actually claiming that Jesus is the Son of himself. Such is nothing but the expression of one choosing not to listen to the other side. Jesus, the Second person of the Trinity, is the Son of God, aka the First Person of the Trinity. That's our position, and there is no way of seeing such as Jesus is the son of himself.
Sorry but yes there is and I wouldn't expect you to see this about your doctrine because it all goes along with the deception that you have willingly allowed yourself to come into the bondage of and by the way, I believe that your ship is wrecked now anyhow and to the point of no return also and just like what happened to the apostate Jews as being your model and type for the NT.

So, I'm wrong and blind, and the only evidence you have for such is you claiming I'm wrong and blind. You can't actually produce a logical argument to show how my position necessitates "Jesus is the son of himself", but you claim it anyway. Sorry, can you give a weaker argument? You were doing so well. What about my statements necessitates "Jesus is the son of himself"?

God Bless
 
Expressions of abject immaturity.
Now you are starting personal attacks. Please don't cry when you get the returns. deal with the question...Is the trinity jesus' father. You are claiming God is a trinity... Jesus is the son of God...

That's not a personal attack. The above is an expression of the type of comments you just made.

I'm quoting Scripture you silly, silly man.
Ok since you want to be exposed again...
CJB
From: Shim‘on Kefa, a slave and emissary of Yeshua the Messiah To: Those who, through the righteousness of our God and of our Deliverer Yeshua the Messiah, have been given the same kind of trust as ours:
You do know that the word Christ is translated from Messiah, don't you? It means anointed. So to clarify...God is the father of Jesus the Messiah. Do you think Christ is Jesus' surname? Well it is not. It is a title given to him. Actually it is a title given to men. Not God.

I quote Scripture, you reject it. You quote the same while failing to realize that it still supports my position. Have fun rejecting Scripture.

You didn't just dismiss my understanding. You dismissed those verses because you don't believe what they teach as you just did again with 2 Peter 1:1.
I dismissed your misunderstanding. You do not understand that Christ means Messiah. Think about that every time you see the word Christ. God is not the Messiah. God is the father of the messiah.

Silly goose, what makes you think I didn't know Christ = Messiah? Are you getting so desperate you are just making stuff up now?

Scripture does not say "he and his father cannot be the same God".
Scripture does not say he and his father can be the same God either. You are trying to sell me God and his son is the same God. That would make Jesus a liar since Jesus said his father is the only true God.
So, Why do you say "so, he and his father cannot be the same God"?
Because he is not his father. If they are the same God then he is his father.
No Trinitarian believes that.
No trinitarian believes the scriptures. If the did they wouldn't be mistaking the messiah for his father.
So, what part of your thinking requires you to jump from "they are not each other" with respect to personhood to they "cannot be the same God"?
What part of your thinking makes you jump to they are the same God in the first place. Does the scripture say they are the same god?

Nice but cutting up my comment as to not understand the point I'm making or the question I'm asking.

I have quoted Scripture, you ignore it. Why waste my time quoting Scripture if your not going to read it anyway?
You quote scripture then derail the scriptures with your comments.

And, if you were a follower of Christ, you should go to those texts to show how my comments derail the Scripture as opposed to running away and just making accusations.

What part of your thinking requires you to jump from "the Father is, as to his nature, the only God that exists." to they "there are three only Gods that exist."? You have quite the imagination.
Is the father the only God that exist in your theology? You have three persons that exist as the only God. Your ignorance in unmatched on this forum bro.
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Because, each person, as to their nature, is the only God that exists.

Are you going to answer my question: What part of your thinking requires you to jump from "the Father is, as to his nature, the only God that exists." to they "there are three only Gods that exist."?

God Bless
 
Are you going to answer my question: What part of your thinking requires you to jump from "the Father is, as to his nature, the only God that exists." to they "there are three only Gods that exist."?

Jesus isn't talking about "nature" at John 17:3.

That's an insurmountable problem for you since it is the only way you can define the word "God" to attempt to make Jesus' words work for you.

This is the part where you confuse the conversation again.
 
I'm asking questions, not making an argument here.
Ok I see two questions...
(1)Jesus' righteousness doesn't save us in your book?....Answer...We are saved by grace....
(2)Our sins are not imputed to Christ and Christ's righteousness isn't imputed to us?...Answer... Our sins are forgiven when this happens we become righteous before God.


True, but it doesn't say it so the reason you gave to justify Jesus is the righteousness of God in 2 Peter 1:1 is fallacious.
But other passages say it...
Philippians 1:11
Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
This sounds like you're desperately trying to win the argument before any serious consideration of the verses in question. It's all off topic; so, I'll move on.
And you haven't seriously considered the response.
In reality, there are many Trinitarians who say all the works Jesus did were not coming from himself as God, but the Spirit working through him as an example for us. Notice, I've never said anything like "the works Jesus did were coming from himself as God". Maybe, you shouldn't make assumptions about why we say what we say.
But you claim Jesus is God don't you? That is as good as saying it.
And, the reason why you choose to give these "facts"? Notice, I said there was nothing bad here. You just decide to go on a rant. A rant on topics that diffenaately didn't prove "none of the discples could have been teaching that Jesus was God."
None of the disciples taught Jesus was god. They all teach Jesus is the son of God.
Thank you for your opinion. But, I seriously doubt you were in a Church that was close to the type of church I attend.
You should run from that church if they teach Jesus is God.
I'm a five point Calvinist.
Did God call you to be that? If no please tell us who called you to be that.
I'm not a dispensationalist.
No one is called to be that.
I hold to Covenant Theology. If you know anything about us Reformed Baptists, you would know we are nothing like typical know-nothing evangelicals. But, have fun making yourself feel better.
Where in the covenant does it say Jesus is God?
So, I'm wrong and blind, and the only evidence you have for such is you claiming I'm wrong and blind.
Since you readily observe this why are you asking others to verify?
You can't actually produce a logical argument to show how my position necessitates "Jesus is the son of himself", but you claim it anyway.
Simple Jesus is the son of God ,to us there is but one God the father... you claim Jesus is God, therefore Jesus must be the son of himself.
Sorry, can you give a weaker argument?
deal with what is before you.
You were doing so well. What about my statements necessitates "Jesus is the son of himself"?
Your belief that Jesus is God while being the son of God.
 
I'm asking questions, not making an argument here.

Yes asking questions with the deceitful intentions of twisting what I say to fit your desire, for what I stated from scriptures very clearly supports what I believe and trust in, that Jesus became sin and just how God sees me, that I might become the righteousness of God, just like God sees Christ by my being in him through repentance anf faith.
True, but it doesn't say it so the reason you gave to justify Jesus is the righteousness of God in 2 Peter 1:1 is fallacious.

No it isn't, becasue to start with that has nothing to do with the fact that in 2 Peter 1:1 he is not giving Jesus the Title of "our God and Savior" but rather the title of "the righteousness of our God and Savior" and for the fact that God's righteousness was manifest in Jesus Christ.

Just like Paul also said, "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" and just like Jesus himself said in John 14:10 "the words that I speak, I speak not from myself, it is the Father within me, he is doing the works" and I know you like to argue with this but it very clearly says that God was in Christ manifesting himself through him.

Therefore that would also include God's righteousness and almost almost every other attribute of God likewise.

Nevertheless, the issue of whether or not he was made the righteousness of God is totally irrelevent anyhow, because my point was that you are only taken it to mean that Peter is calling Jesus Our God and Savior taking only a part of what is stated that fits what you want to believe.
This sounds like you're desperately trying to win the argument before any serious consideration of the verses in question. It's all off topic; so, I'll move on.

I don't need to try to win anything, for to begin with this is not a game to me, but maybe it is with you and that is why you stated this huh?

No it really isn't because you are are demanding from me what you can't deliver yourself and that is explicit proof that God is a trinity given by any true inspired by God writer of scripture and which is quite hypocritical also.

Furthermore, you are the one that went off topic in your irrelevent argument that it doesn't say that Jesus was made the righteousness of God when that has nothing to do with my point that 2 Peter 1:1 is calling Jesus "the righteousness of our God and Savior" and not "our God and Savior" like you believe.

It doesn't matter one way or another to my point.


In reality, there are many Trinitarians who say all the works Jesus did were not coming from himself as God, but the Spirit working through him as an example for us. Notice, I've never said anything like "the works Jesus did were coming from himself as God". Maybe, you shouldn't make assumptions about why we say what we say.

Yet you are arguing that it in order for him to have the title "the righteousness of our God and Savior" he would have to be "our God and Savior" and which means then that his works of righteousness was his own and don't deny it because it is clear that this is what you are doing by arguing it.
And, the reason why you choose to give these "facts"? Notice, I said there was nothing bad here. You just decide to go on a rant. A rant on topics that diffenaately didn't prove "none of the discples could have been teaching that Jesus was God."
Not so, because it is very relevent that while you say that Jesus was really crucified for calling himself God or equal unto God, that none of his disciples ever taught this or were persecuted for teaching it or were martyred for teaching it in the record of the Book of Acts and which cuts you doctrine down to the bone also
Thank you for your opinion. But, I seriously doubt you were in a Church that was close to the type of church I attend. I'm a five point Calvinist. I'm not a dispensationalist. I hold to Covenant Theology. If you know anything about us Reformed Baptists, you would know we are nothing like typical know-nothing evangelicals. But, have fun making yourself feel better.

It is not an opinion but a fact and you started ignorant of the truth also and had to rely on those who taught you and trust that they were speaking the truth just like me and everyone else.

Howver the difference between God's true remnant believers, is that they will start just like everyone else but as they grow in their relationship with God through Christ and in their own personal search for the truth from the scriptures, they will eventually no longer need to have someone teaching then and they will also begin to see the folly of what they were previously taught in your apostate churches.
So, I'm wrong and blind, and the only evidence you have for such is you claiming I'm wrong and blind. You can't actually produce a logical argument to show how my position necessitates "Jesus is the son of himself", but you claim it anyway. Sorry, can you give a weaker argument? You were doing so well. What about my statements necessitates "Jesus is the son of himself"?

God Bless

Hey, you are going to deny the truth no matter what and that is all part of the delusion that God has sent you because you really don't love the truth.

For, for instead of spending your time in seeking the truth you spend it instead on looking for more passages in the scriptures that you can easily twist to make them fit what you have already been previously and falsely led to believe.

That is the difference between the true born again believer and the one who has been falsely led to believe that he is.

The true believer will search the scripture for truth not caring if he has to change what he believes to accept it but the false believer will search the scriptures always looking for scriptures instead to reinforce what he was already led to believe and this is because he is not of the truth and nor does he really care about the truth either.

Therefore Paul's words in 2 Thessalonians 2:11 applies to him, "for this reason God will send them strong delusion that they shall believe a lie because they loved not the truth but took pleasure instead in that which is not right"
 
They saw God in a form that allows men to see him. God id a spirit, spirits are not material.

I have shown you the scriptures that explains this many times...
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

What part of ...God made all things bu his son Jesus...do you not understand?

A man is a man what do you mean by mere? Jesus the son of God was born a man just like any other man.

Believe this...
John 16:27
For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

That explains that Jesus is not God but the son of God. You have not shown any scripture to make Jesus God.
So you can’t answer my post.
 
That's not a personal attack. The above is an expression of the type of comments you just made.
definitely aimed at the person... Or else show what in the statement is an expression of immaturity...
I quote Scripture, you reject it. You quote the same while failing to realize that it still supports my position. Have fun rejecting Scripture.
You quote scripture then give comments as to what you think the scriptures mean.
Silly goose, what makes you think I didn't know Christ = Messiah?
For starters you think the messiah is God.
Are you getting so desperate you are just making stuff up now?
Please show what I made up.
Nice but cutting up my comment as to not understand the point I'm making or the question I'm asking.
If you cannot understand how I address your comments point by point and claim I cut them up. How can you understand the scriptures that is written in verses and chapters?
And, if you were a follower of Christ, you should go to those texts to show how my comments derail the Scripture as opposed to running away and just making accusations.
I already did.
Are you going to answer my question: What part of your thinking requires you to jump from "the Father is, as to his nature, the only God that exists." to they "there are three only Gods that exist."?
Your hypocrisy. If the father is the only God that exist, who is the trinity? Don't you say God is a trinity? Is the father a trinity? You have three Gods. God the father, You claim he is the only God that exist. Then You have God the son who is not God the father, but you say God the son is the only God that exist. Then you have God the HS wh is not God the son or God re Father but you say God the HS is the only God that exist. You are claiming that three Gods who are not each other are each the only true God. To cover you nonsense you relegate the three gods to persons. That is so funny.
 
Back
Top