The Trinitarian Delusion

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Claiming your conclusion as support for the justification of that conclusion is circular. You're are giving reasons why you think Jesus is the righteousness of God in 2 Peter 1:1 as opposed to "our God and Savor". And, your theology doesn't count. Biblical evidence please.
More words of manipulation and deceit, that is what you do with your little arguments like the one above and they might sound sufisticated unto the ignorant but not unto someone who has any real discernment of the Holy Spirit.
I don't think that this was the intended meaning by Peter, but I know it was in complete settled confidence, and something of which you can never truly have with your false doctrine because the Holy Spirit cannot endorse it as the truth in your heart when it isn't the truth.
Therefore any confidence you might in your deception think that you have, will soon enough vanish.

So in short, the reason you believe Jesus is the righteousness of God is because of the discernment of the Holy Spirit. There no reason, logic, or Scriptural justification. You just have divine help and I don't. I'm sure that will lead so many people into joining your ranks. It worked for tons of Cult leaders like Joseph Smith, Muhammad, Mary Baker Eddy, Jim Jones, etc. And as an outsider, the is no ligitimate way I can check anything. I just need to bow the knee to your insight.

...
For the fact is, that the only thing that the narative of Genesis 18 can actually reveal for certain, is that Yahweh was that Yahweh God appeared and spoke to Abraham, but it does not support your added idea that this was Jesus Christ in a pre incarnate form like many of your cult claimes that it does...

FYI, If Yahweh God appeared and spoke to Abraham, and "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." John 1:18, then that Yahweh God was Jesus. QED.

You are literally grasping at straws here. God being in Christ manifesting himself through him doesn't make Jesus "the righteousness of our God and Savior."
You have to use that and believe that, because otherwise you would be left with the fact that you are teaching false doctrine about this verse and therefore of course you are going to throw it back on to me with your "you are literally grasping at straws here" excuse for your own error about it.
That is all part of the deception that you are being deceived with.

No, Yahweh will increase has to declare God being in Christ manifesting himself through him makes Jesus "the righteousness of our God and Savior" because otherwise he would be left with the fact that he is teaching false doctrine about this verse. But in reality, there is no connection here at all. You're grasping at straws to justify a vacuous claim. Give me an actual reason why Jesus is "the righteousness of our God and Savior"?

I am not arguing that at all. You're the one saying Jesus is the righteousness; I'm not. I am simply recognizing that "Jesus Christ" is a genitive of apposition to the phrase "our God and Savor" in the Greek of 2 Peter 1:1. In this discussion, I'm simply interested in how you rationalize your position.
LOL! Once again, you are so blind and bias with false doctrine and the delusion that God has sent to you because you don't love the truth, that you don't even realize what you are doing, for you believe that Jesus had his own righteousness being God the Son and that is the same exact thing.

And, why should I not believe you are so blind and bias with false doctrine and the delusion that God has sent to you because you don't love the truth, that you don't even realize what you are doing? Oh yeah, only one of us can act like that. Are you going to interact with what I said, or just throw out more unjustified accusations?

LOL! You and your worthless human reasoning and intellectual bunk "I am simply recognizing that "Jesus Christ" is a genitive of apposition to the phrase "our God and Savior".
Well then, I am simply recognizing that "Jesus Christ" is a gentive of apposition to the full phrase "the righteousness of our God and Savior"

That's silly. δικαιοσύνῃ, righteousness, is not in the correct grammatical form for that to be true.

God Bless
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
Hello, those are the words of Peter, the Apostle. And, you claim to reject said faith. In other words, you are not part of Christ's Church. You arrogantly think you can make your own assembly. Have fun making up your own religion. Muhammad and Joseph Smith seemed to enjoy the process. How many wives are you going to have?
I do not follow Peter, I follow Jesus, I do not follow Paul I follow Jesus, I do not follow any man, neither did Jesus, we get out=-r information directly from the creator if it.

You listen to everyone except Jesus.

Silly man, if you reject Jesus' Apostles, you reject Jesus.

Sorry, I don't believe the words of heretics like you. If you want to prove something, Use Scripture.
That is because you are one.

The response of a first grader. If you want to prove something, Use Scripture.

Are you "the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation."? You are nothing like Jesus.
Just as Jesus was, we have the same Father who is out=-r God.

Blasphemer. You are nothing like Jesus. Did you meet Abraham? cf. John 8:56-58.

Jesus literally walked on water. You play games with figurative language, imposter.
That is all a carnal mind can see of it. The spiritual mind see the truth in it where he walks on the storns of this carnal world.

No, every mind, both carnal and spiritual, can see you for the imposter you are. Jesus literally walked on water, and you claim to be the same without such.

Sense you say you follow thew ways of Christ, lets see you walk on the water and see how far you get!

Silly, silly man. I'm not claiming to be exactly like Jesus. I'm striving to be like him and falling short. You on the other hand arrogantly claim equality with Jesus. Therefore, the only person who needs to literally walk on water to justify himself is YOU.

Sorry, I don't believe the words of heretics like you. If you want to prove something, Use Scripture.
Oh yes you do indeed, for if you were of God as Jesus was you would be like Him...

Sorry, I don't believe the words of heretics like you. If you want to prove something, Use Scripture.

God Bless
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
So in short, the reason you believe Jesus is the righteousness of God is because of the discernment of the Holy Spirit. There no reason, logic, or Scriptural justification. You just have divine help and I don't. I'm sure that will lead so many people into joining your ranks. It worked for tons of Cult leaders like Joseph Smith, Muhammad, Mary Baker Eddy, Jim Jones, etc. And as an outsider, the is no ligitimate way I can check anything. I just need to bow the knee to your insight.
LOL! not in your life, but just as much in that the scriptures reveals that everything he had he received from the Father including his very life and as per these passages below.

John 5:26 "For just as The Father has life in himself, so he has given unto the Son to have life in himself also".

John 6:57 "For just as The Living Father (The Living God) has sent me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats of me will live because of me".


You need to pay close attention when reading that last verse above to the words 'just as and so", for what Jesus is actually saying, is that we will live because of him if we receive the truth from him, in the same exact way that he lives because of the Father and that is as clear as bell from his words also.

By the way, I am not at all interested in any attempt you will make to manipulate those two passages to fit your false doctrine, so don't bother, becasue I have heard it all before and it is rubbish.
FYI, If Yahweh God appeared and spoke to Abraham, and "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." John 1:18, then that Yahweh God was Jesus. QED.
Sorry but that doesn't cut it, because no inspired by God writer of scripture ever stated that it was Jesus and which makes it a private interpretation and which makes anyone who teaches it a false prophet.

Also, you don't have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to John 1:18, for this is not speaking of seeing God in a physical sense, otherwise one who saw Jesus could say that God looks like Jesus in his physical appearance after God in the Ten Commandments made it clear that what he looks like in that sense is totally unecessary to know and neither does he want you to know it either.

What John 1:18 is speaking of is seeing God's character and those short lived appearance of God in the OT wouldn't have been near enough or even long enough to give anyone that kind of an understanding of what God really looked like in regards to his true character.


To prove this all you have to do is look up that were "revealed" as in "he has revealed him", for it is the Greek word from where we get our word "exeget" and which proves that it is not referring to seeing God in his outward or physical appearance but rather what he looks like and who is truly is in his true character.

You are really quite ignorant for someone who claims what you do about the scriptures and to me all you amount to is a religious clacker and which means that all you really do is make a lot of useless noice while having not true substance at all and it wont be long now when God is going to silence that clacking noise also.
No, Yahweh will increase has to declare God being in Christ manifesting himself through him makes Jesus "the righteousness of our God and Savior" because otherwise he would be left with the fact that he is teaching false doctrine about this verse. But in reality, there is no connection here at all. You're grasping at straws to justify a vacuous claim. Give me an actual reason why Jesus is "the righteousness of our God and Savior"?

LOL! that is what the scripture say and not what I say and so you better accept it. Hey I am not going to continue to waste my time with someone who refuses to believe the truth, for I already knew that you will never accept the truth before I even started any conversions with you from the past conversations I have had with you.

You are a sunk ship of no return and your day of reckoning for it is fast approaching and now fastery then ever before also.

Therefore all I am doing here by giving the truth to you, is to create a bigger platform of the truth by which you will end up being judged by God, for he will play back to you ever conversation you ever had with those who spoke the truth to you and you wouldn't listen and that is why Jesus warned us to take heed how we listened.
And, why should I not believe you are so blind and bias with false doctrine and the delusion that God has sent to you because you don't love the truth, that you don't even realize what you are doing? Oh yeah, only one of us can act like that. Are you going to interact with what I said, or just throw out more unjustified accusations?

You,ve been given enough to show that you are in error and actually everyone has who reads the scriptures while believing false doctrines also. For there are plenty of contradictions in the scriptures alone against any amount of false doctrines, it is just a matter of whether you will acknowledge them and pay attention to them or not.

But of course that would depend on whether you have ever had a true conversion or not also.
That's silly. δικαιοσύνῃ, righteousness, is not in the correct grammatical form for that to be true.

God Bless

I can't wait until guys like you who worship at the shrine of the human intellect and human rules and academic knowledge, find out that God is not subject to your intellect and human reasoning and logic and those rules because underneath what is written in human language is more often having a spiritual meaning which those rules have an inablity to verify one way or the other.

Sorry, but you will never get a blessing of God from my mouth, for I don't bless false teachers but rather I take heed to what is written in 2 John about it, like I was instructed.
 

Andreas

Well-known member
That's quite a delusion you were having.

You have no idea what the Father's house looks like.

Are they God's commandments or Jesus' commandments? Does God have some of the commandments and Jesus have the others? How do you reconcile that with your fuzzy logic?
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Are they God's commandments or Jesus' commandments? Does God have some of the commandments and Jesus have the others? How do you reconcile that with your fuzzy logic?

You have clearly shown us that you don't bother listening to Jesus.

If you love me, you will keep my commands... 21 He who has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me... If anyone loves me, he will keep my word... He who does not love me does not keep my words and the word which you hear is not mine, but the Father’s who sent me.
John 14
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Hypocrisy simply isn't the type of thing that warrants any logical inferences outside of motivations. But your conclusions have nothing to do with my motivations; therefore, there is no logical reason to infer anything about my argument from my supposed hypocrisy. Let alone the fact that your accusation of hypocrisy is likewise fallacious.
It is . Jesus hated hypocrisy... You claim messiah is both God and man. Messiah is the son of God is he not? In your hypocrisy you made God the son of God
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Why do you ask.
Why do you nor answer?
Do you want to challenge it?
Nope I just want an answer.
Feel free to do so.
Not interested, a simple yes or no will suffice.
The Lord does manifest Himself to me.
That was not the question...
He has shown me His Father’s House and and the depths of hell and its torments.
Still not the the question. One simple question and you cannot give a straight answer.
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
So in short, the reason you believe Jesus is the righteousness of God is because of the discernment of the Holy Spirit. There no reason, logic, or Scriptural justification. You just have divine help and I don't. I'm sure that will lead so many people into joining your ranks. It worked for tons of Cult leaders like Joseph Smith, Muhammad, Mary Baker Eddy, Jim Jones, etc. And as an outsider, the is no ligitimate way I can check anything. I just need to bow the knee to your insight.
LOL! not in your life, but just as much in that the scriptures reveals that everything he had he received from the Father including his very life and as per these passages below.

John 5:26 "For just as The Father has life in himself, so he has given unto the Son to have life in himself also".

John 6:57 "For just as The Living Father (The Living God) has sent me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats of me will live because of me".

You need to pay close attention when reading that last verse above to the words 'just as and so", for what Jesus is actually saying, is that we will live because of him if we receive the truth from him, in the same exact way that he lives because of the Father and that is as clear as bell from his words also.

By the way, I am not at all interested in any attempt you will make to manipulate those two passages to fit your false doctrine, so don't bother, becasue I have heard it all before and it is rubbish.

Not one word justifying your belief that "Jesus is the righteousness of God." Therefore, my statement stands unanswered.

FYI, If Yahweh God appeared and spoke to Abraham, and "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." John 1:18, then that Yahweh God was Jesus. QED.
Sorry but that doesn't cut it, because no inspired by God writer of scripture ever stated that it was Jesus and which makes it a private interpretation and which makes anyone who teaches it a false prophet.

In reality, the Apostle John stated that it was Jesus in John 1:18. That's literally John's point in John 1:18. Similarly in John 12:41, John says the one Isaiah saw high and lifted up in Isaiah 6 was Jesus.

Also, you don't have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to John 1:18, for this is not speaking of seeing God in a physical sense, otherwise one who saw Jesus could say that God looks like Jesus in his physical appearance after God in the Ten Commandments made it clear that what he looks like in that sense is totally unecessary to know and neither does he want you to know it either.

So according to you when John said "No man hath seen God at any time", he was just lying?

No, Yahweh will increase has to declare God being in Christ manifesting himself through him makes Jesus "the righteousness of our God and Savior" because otherwise he would be left with the fact that he is teaching false doctrine about this verse. But in reality, there is no connection here at all. You're grasping at straws to justify a vacuous claim. Give me an actual reason why Jesus is "the righteousness of our God and Savior"?
LOL! that is what the scripture say and not what I say and so you better accept it. Hey I am not going to continue to waste my time with someone who refuses to believe the truth, for I already knew that you will never accept the truth before I even started any conversions with you from the past conversations I have had with you.

I.e., you don't have a Scriptural reason to believe Jesus is "the righteousness of our God and Savior". You just claim it for theological reasons because you refuse to believe Jesus is our God and Savior as the Greek of 2 Peter 1:1 clearly expresses.

And, why should I not believe you are so blind and bias with false doctrine and the delusion that God has sent to you because you don't love the truth, that you don't even realize what you are doing? Oh yeah, only one of us can act like that. Are you going to interact with what I said, or just throw out more unjustified accusations?
You,ve been given enough to show that you are in error and actually everyone has who reads the scriptures while believing false doctrines also. For there are plenty of contradictions in the scriptures alone against any amount of false doctrines, it is just a matter of whether you will acknowledge them and pay attention to them or not.

But of course that would depend on whether you have ever had a true conversion or not also.

I guess you'll stick with unjustified accusations because you don't have Scriptural support for your opinions.

That's silly. δικαιοσύνῃ, righteousness, is not in the correct grammatical form for that to be true.
I can't wait until guys like you who worship at the shrine of the human intellect and human rules and academic knowledge, find out that God is not subject to your intellect and human reasoning and logic and those rules because underneath what is written in human language is more often having a spiritual meaning which those rules have an inablity to verify one way or the other.

Sorry, but you will never get a blessing of God from my mouth, for I don't bless false teachers but rather I take heed to what is written in 2 John about it, like I was instructed.

The response of one who simply doesn't understand the Greek and can't allow himself to be corrected theologically by Scripture.

God Bless
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
The Messiah was both God and man. How does this imply I didn't know Christ = Messiah? You arguments are just silly.
Really ? So who is seated at the right hand of God?

Jesus. Remember, Jesus isn't the only person who is only true God.
Hypocrisy simply isn't the type of thing that warrants any logical inferences outside of motivations. But your conclusions have nothing to do with my motivations; therefore, there is no logical reason to infer anything about my argument from my supposed hypocrisy. Let alone the fact that your accusation of hypocrisy is likewise fallacious.
It is . Jesus hated hypocrisy... You claim messiah is both God and man. Messiah is the son of God is he not? In your hypocrisy you made God the son of God

You are correct when you state "Jesus hated hypocrisy." Yes, the Messiah, Jesus, is the Son of God. However, I didn't make "God the son of God". I affirmed what Scripture teaches. Jesus, who is God (John 1:1c), is the son of the Father, who is called God.

On a side note, It's not hypocritical to make "God the son of God." Call it incoherent or inconsistent, but hypocrisy is simply the wrong English word.

Lastly in these two comments, you responded to my points. Such responses were meaningful. See the difference? You read my entire comment in context as to reply to my entire comment. Keep it up.

God Bless
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Why do you nor answer?

Nope I just want an answer.

Not interested, a simple yes or no will suffice.

That was not the question...

Still not the the question. One simple question and you cannot give a straight answer.
Did you read anything.
No wonder your lost.
I said I had seen hell. It was not empty!
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Not one word justifying your belief that "Jesus is the righteousness of God." Therefore, my statement stands unanswered.

Not so fast, for there are two passages in Jeremiah that gives not only Jesus this title but also his church, being the church was born again from him as being from the tribe of Judah and they are therefore New Jerusalem of the Spirit.


Jeremiah 23:5 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch,
a King (Jesus Christ) who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.


6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.



Jeremiah 33:16
In those days Judah will be saved, And Jerusalem will dwell safely. And this is the name by which she will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. '

It is also quite obvious that these are both titles unless you want to argue that Judah and Jerusalem are also God and equal unto God and have their own righteousness as God


Like I said and quoted from Paul, "for he made him who knew no sin, to be sin on our behalf that we might be made the righteousness of God in him and these two verses above prove that "the righteousness of our God and Savior" is a title for Jesus and Peter is not calling Jesus our God and Savior like you falsely believe and teach about it.

At any rate, you are going to go on in your deception no matter what is given to you from the scripture to prove you are wrong.

Therefore, I am not going any further with this so I would suggest that you go blow the flatulents of your false doctrines from the god of your belly elsewhere, for I am totally bored with dealing with it over and over again now.



 
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Andreas

Well-known member
You have clearly shown us that you don't bother listening to Jesus.

If you love me, you will keep my commands... 21 He who has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me... If anyone loves me, he will keep my word... He who does not love me does not keep my words and the word which you hear is not mine, but the Father’s who sent me.
John 14

So you are saying they are not Jesus' commands, but the Father?
 
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