The Truth about the Kenosis of Jesus

CharismaticLady

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
The kenosis, or "emptying," of Christ does NOT MEAN that He divested Himself of His diety, but that He withheld His preincarnate GLORY and voluntarily restricted His use of certain attributes (e.g., omnipresence and omniscience - present everywhere, and all knowing.) Philippians 2:7 but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. He is still God and omnipotent.

Jesus was conceived with the Seed of the Father, empowering Him to be sinless throughout His life. However, humbly bringing Himself down to human frailities allowed His body to die for us. That death on the cross and His resurrection are what saved us. It allowed all who follow Him to be born again of the same Seed of the Father that Jesus was conceived with, in order for the start of our sinlessness to begin, called freedom from sin. Phil. 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

After the crucifixion and resurrection Jesus prays to the Father in John 17:1Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

There Jesus asked for the attributes of His Godhood back - His omniscience and omnipresence. It is interesting that Jesus used His omnipotence - all powerfulness - while on earth, and along with His power to live free from sin, though tested without failing, He gave those born again the same power to have authority over demons, sickness, even the ability to raise the dead. All we need to know to do the same things that Jesus did while in His ministry is to KNOW WHO you are in Christ.
 
Why are you posting this? Kenosis is the result when Christians try to impose their will/agenda onto scripture. You don't believe scripture, so why post it?

www.gotquestions.org

What is the kenosis? What does it mean that Jesus emptied Himself? | GotQuestions.org

What is the kenosis? What does it mean that Jesus emptied Himself? What did Jesus empty Himself of?
www.gotquestions.org

The term kenosis refers to the doctrine of Christ’s “self-emptying” in His incarnation. The word comes from the Greek of Philippians 2:7, which says that Jesus “emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men” (ESV). The word translated “emptied” is a form of kenoó, from which we get the word kenosis.

Notice that Philippians 2:7 does not specify what the Son of God “emptied” Himself of. And here we must be careful not to go beyond what Scripture says. Jesus did not empty Himself of His divine attributes—no such attributes are mentioned in the verse, and it is obvious in the gospels that Jesus possessed the power and wisdom of God. Calming the storm is just one display of Jesus’ divine power (Mark 4:39). In coming to earth, the Son of God did not cease to be God, and He did not become a “lesser god.” Whatever the “emptying” entailed, Jesus remained fully God: “in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9).

It is better to think of Christ’s “emptying” of Himself as a laying aside of the privileges that were His in heaven. Rather than stay on His throne in heaven, Jesus “made himself nothing” (as the NIV translates Philippians 2:7). When He came to earth, “he gave up his divine privileges” (NLT). He veiled His glory, and He chose to occupy the position of a slave.

The kenosis was a self-renunciation, not an emptying Himself of deity. Nor was it an exchange of deity for humanity. Jesus never ceased to be God during any part of His earthly ministry. He did set aside His heavenly glory. He also voluntarily refrained from using His divinity to make His way easier. During His earthly ministry, Christ completely submitted Himself to the will of the Father (John 5:19).

As part of the kenosis, Jesus sometimes operated within the limitations of humanity. God does not get tired or thirsty, but Jesus did (John 4:6; 19:28). God knows all things, but it seems that, at least once, Jesus voluntarily surrendered the use of His omniscience (Matthew 24:36). Other times, Jesus’ omniscience was on full display (Luke 6:8; John 13:11; 18:4).

There are some false teachers who take the concept of kenosis too far, saying that Jesus gave up all or some of His divine nature when He came to earth. This heresy is sometimes referred to as the kenosis theory, but a better term is kenoticism or kenotic theology, to distinguish it from biblical understanding of the kenosis.

When it comes to the kenosis, we often focus too much on what Jesus gave up. The kenosis also deals with what Christ took on. Jesus added to His divine nature a human nature as He humbled Himself for us. Jesus went from being the glory of glories in heaven to being a human being who was put to death on the cross. Philippians 2:7–8 declares, “Taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!” In the ultimate act of humility, the God of the universe became a human being and died for His creation.

The kenosis is the act of Christ taking on a human nature with all of its limitations, except with no sin. As one Bible scholar wrote, “At His incarnation He remained ‘in the form of God’ and as such He is Lord and Ruler over all, but He also accepted the nature of a servant as part of His humanity” (J. J. Müller, The Epistles of Paul to the Philippians and to Philemon, p. 82).

Besides you don't believe scripture as you have demonstrated numerous times. At least show some consistency.
 
Good discussion about it here:

  - Kenosis question for trinitarians

If you believe a kenosis took place on some level when God became flesh, what do you think happened? Did the Son of God completely leave his fellowship with the Father and Spirit in heaven? Did this fellowship continue in a different way (as an indwelling)? Did a division take place...a fracture...
forums.carm.org
 
CharismaticLady said:
The kenosis, or "emptying," of Christ does NOT MEAN that He divested Himself of His diety, but that He withheld His preincarnate GLORY and voluntarily restricted His use of certain attributes (e.g., omnipresence and omniscience - present everywhere, and all knowing.) Philippians 2:7 but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. He is still God and omnipotent.
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I don't believe anything of what you have said.

For a start "Jesus the man" didn't empty himself of anything. Rather it was the Logos (i.e. 'Jesus' in the form of God who was never called Jesus in this state) which emptied itself to become Jesus the man, who we know.

And absolutely he emptied himself of every divine attribute to become a man, except his personal identity, whatever that was in the metaphysical realm - presumably re-incorporated into his human soul. He was a true man in every sense. All his works were done by the power of his Father, through the Holy Spirit, and not through some innate power separate from either.
 
cjab said:
For a start "Jesus the man" didn't empty himself of anything. Rather it was the Logos (i.e. 'Jesus' in the form of God who was never called Jesus in this state) which emptied itself to become Jesus the man, who we know.
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I'm talking about the Word in order to become Jesus. The Word IS Jesus. And Jesus is the Word.
 
CharismaticLady said:
I'm talking about the Word in order to become Jesus. The Word IS Jesus. And Jesus is the Word.
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Although they have the same identity, and so are one person, and form one referent in the Greek, the two have no material comparability as they existed/exist in differented jurisdictions, one as flesh (flesh gives birth to flesh), the other as spirit (spirit gives birth to spirit). "The word became flesh" indicates a real transformation, even a metamorphosis, the extent of which is not to be trivialized or underestimated. Moreover Jesus didn't have the power of the Word. The only power he exercised was by the Holy Spirit (of his Father).
 
cjab said:
Although they have the same identity, and so are one person, and form one referent in the Greek, the two have no material comparability as they existed/exist in differented jurisdictions, one as flesh (flesh gives birth to flesh), the other as spirit (spirit gives birth to spirit). "The word became flesh" indicates a real transformation, even a metamorphosis, the extent of which is not to be trivialized or underestimated. Moreover Jesus didn't have the power of the Word. The only power he exercised was by the Holy Spirit (of his Father).
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So when Jesus was on earth, do you believe He was still God, or just a man already exhibiting the same power as we have who are born again of the Spirit?
 
Bob Carabbio said:
The difference is that we are given "Measured / Metered" spiritual access (Rom 12:3), and Jesus' access was UNLIMITED (John 3:34).
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But one other than Jesus can do greater things than Jesus

Jhn 14:12

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
 
cjab said:
But one other than Jesus can do greater things than Jesus

Jhn 14:12

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
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No problem at all. If God decides to empower you to toss the state of Massachusetts into the Ocean, then you will be able to do it. We can be empowered just like Jesus was - at God's discretion. I never said that we couldn't do what Jesus did (when empowered to do so) only that Jesus' access to God's POWER was "without measure" whereas ours is "Metered" to us according to HIS WILL.
 
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Beloved Daughter said:
No you're not. You don't even believe the WORD. I can post it again, so we all know what you really believe.
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Correct Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 expose her erroneous beliefs . Fully God ( all the fullness of Deity- lacking nothing ) means everything that’s true of the Father is true if the Son.
 
civic said:
Correct Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 expose her erroneous beliefs . Fully God ( all the fullness of Deity- lacking nothing ) means everything that’s true of the Father is true if the Son.
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The ascended Son sits at the right hand of God, but even then, the Father is greater and remains over all Eph 4:6.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
No problem at all. If God decides to empower you to toss the state of Massachusetts into the Ocean, then you will be able to do it. We can be empowered just like Jesus was - at God's discretion. I never said that we couldn't do what Jesus did (when empowered to do so) only that Jesus' access to God's POWER was "without measure" whereas ours is "Metered" to us according to HIS WILL.
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I agree with you to the extent that it is metered because of our own limitations but not otherwise.
 
cjab said:
The ascended Son sits at the right hand of God, but even then, the Father is greater and remains over all Eph 4:6.
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Sorry Colossians 1:19 is while He was walking this earth when the reconciliation took place it declares that God the Father was:

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things,

conclusion: your heresy is refuted by the plain meaning and teaching of the text.

Next
 
civic said:
Sorry Colossians 1:19 is while He was walking this earth when the reconciliation took place it declares that God the Father was:

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things,

conclusion: your heresy is refuted by the plain meaning and teaching of the text.

Next
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Not my heresy, but your inability to understand what scripture plainly says.
 
cjab said:
Not my heresy, but your inability to understand what scripture plainly says.
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So lets walk though this together and see who understands scripture and who does not and lets their preconceived ideas dictate what he believes.


Philippians 2:5-8
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
NIV

These translation capture the meaning of the text in its CONTEXT.


New International Version
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

New Living Translation
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,

New King James Version
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

King James Bible
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:


Thayers Greek Lexicon-namely, τοῦ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ or τῆς μορφῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ, i. e. he laid aside equality with or the form of God (said of Christ), Philippians 2:7

Strongs Lexicon-From kenos; to make empty, i.e. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify -- make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.

Louw Nida Greek Lexicon- 87.70 κενόωb: to completely remove or eliminate elements of high status or rank by eliminating all privileges or prerogatives associated with such status or rank.

What Paul makes very clear in this passage is that in addition to being God, He became man. The Incarnation was not a subtraction of His deity but an addition of humanity to His nature. This passage does not say Jesus gave up His deity but that He laid aside His rights as Deity, assuming the form of a servant in verse 7. The text says He was in the form of God or being in the very nature of God in 2:6. Just as He took upon Himself the "form of a servant" which is a servant by nature, so the "form of God" is God by nature. The word "being" from the phrase: being in the very form of God is a present active participle. This means "continued existence" as God. What Paul is actually saying here is Jesus has always been and still is in the "form of God". If you continue reading the passage Paul really drives this point home so that his readers have no doubt what he is trying to get across to the Philippians. Paul says that every knee will bow and will one day Confess Jesus is LORD. Paul takes the passage in Isaiah 45:23 which clearly refers to Yahweh a name used for God alone and says this of Jesus. The fulfillment of YHWH in Isaiah 45 is none other than Jesus who is God(Yahweh) in the flesh.

He self limited His divine prerogatives via the Incarnation as per Phil 2. In other words did not use them to His advantage but was in submission to the Father for 33 years to accomplish our salvation. All the FULLNESS of DEITY dwells in bodily form. Col 1:19;2:9. Jesus was and is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Even through Christ existed in the form of God He did not regard equality with God something that He needed to reach for or grasp. Why because it was already His and never gave that up for a millisecond.

Paul is using syllogisms from the text in Philippians 2.

Just as the term “form of God” in verse six does not mean “less than God” because of the phrase “equality with God" in the prior passage.

It goes to reason in the same way with the 2 phrases in the “form of a servant” and in the “likeness of man” in verse seven do not mean that Jesus was any “less than human,” but instead means He was the same or “equal with all humans.”

That is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT ".

In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus. In Colossians 1:19 it is describing His earthly ministry and Colossians 2:9 it is describing His Post Resurrection/Ascension Glory as God Incarnate.

Colossians 1:19-20
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven

Colossians 2:9-10- For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 3:1- Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Paul is talking in Colossians chapters 2-3 about the glorified resurrected Christ now seated at the right hand of God not the earthly Christ pre resurrection. This is a slam dunk that He is in a human glorified resurrection body and that He continues to have all the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in the present.

This is how one exegetes the passage rather than using eisegesis- reading ones own thoughts and ideas into the text.

Conclusion: for the readers/onlookers. Notice how the poster I'm responding to NEVER exegetes any passage on the forum but only makes comments and asks questions. The poster does not know how to use bible hermenuetics.

hope this helps !!!
 
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