The Truth

balshan

Well-known member
I was thinking as I posted this response in another thread that this is the problem with the RCC:

I think that the truth needs to be stressed, the only thing we know for sure is the Word of God is scripture. Therefore, this is the main guide. The Holy Spirit will not teach another gospel, or another set of rules.

Scripture does not teach the PV, praying to the dead, praying to Mary, infallibility of popes and his mates, the Rosary, works based salvation, allowing sexual sinners to be leaders and the list of false teachings from the RCC goes on.

The problem is it does not trust God's word. It seeks answers from fallible sources. It claims that not everything is in scripture, no one debates that fact - fashions change, cars are now around, internet (think of what the apostles would have done with the net), planes weren't even thought about.

But we have to have a standard that we know is God's word and that is scripture. This is what the catechism states about scritpure:

102

Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:64

You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time

We know God is the same throughout time and throughout the ages. Therefore we know His word will not change. Why not hold all RC beliefs up to the standard of scripture? It is the only truth that we have. Why not hold the PV up to scripture? It is not in scripture at all. Praying to the dead is not in scripture and was not done by the apostles, so why do it?

Why the need to be arrogant and add to God's word? In fact, God says not to do so.
 

pilgrim

Member
I was thinking as I posted this response in another thread that this is the problem with the RCC:

I think that the truth needs to be stressed, the only thing we know for sure is the Word of God is scripture. Therefore, this is the main guide. The Holy Spirit will not teach another gospel, or another set of rules.

Scripture does not teach the PV, praying to the dead, praying to Mary, infallibility of popes and his mates, the Rosary, works based salvation, allowing sexual sinners to be leaders and the list of false teachings from the RCC goes on.

The problem is it does not trust God's word. It seeks answers from fallible sources. It claims that not everything is in scripture, no one debates that fact - fashions change, cars are now around, internet (think of what the apostles would have done with the net), planes weren't even thought about.

But we have to have a standard that we know is God's word and that is scripture. This is what the catechism states about scritpure:

102

Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:64

You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time

We know God is the same throughout time and throughout the ages. Therefore we know His word will not change. Why not hold all RC beliefs up to the standard of scripture? It is the only truth that we have. Why not hold the PV up to scripture? It is not in scripture at all. Praying to the dead is not in scripture and was not done by the apostles, so why do it?

Why the need to be arrogant and add to God's word? In fact, God says not to do so.
How do we know this "for sure"?
Because the Church determined which books were inspired, declared them authentic, compiled them, studied them and preserved them throughout the ages long before there were any Protestants.

The Scriptures, therefore, were held to the standard of the Church, not the other way around.
 

balshan

Well-known member
How do we know this "for sure"?
Because the Church determined which books were inspired, declared them authentic, compiled them, studied them and preserved them throughout the ages long before there were any Protestants.

The Scriptures, therefore, were held to the standard of the Church, not the other way around.
Your institution did not determine which books were authentic or inspired. The God did and your institution is not the NT church or God. The NT church would not have touched your institution with a ten foot barge pole, it is so full of evil fruit. Your institution has shown a major lack of standards. We know that your institution is not infallible on certain issues because that is not scriptural, no matter how much you try and do the RCC word twist to squeeze it into scripture.

Scripture is not held to the standards of your institution because the standards of your institution is murder, orgies, sexual sin, child abuse, lying, warmongering, forced conversions etc.

In fact, scripture is not held to anyone else standard at all, all institutions must be held to the standard of scripture and not the reverse. How can something that is not from God determine the standards. What a joke.

Scripture is the Word of God, the only standard it is held to is God's. Anything else is a lie from the father of lies. So many statements made by RCs show the follow man and not God.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
How do we know this "for sure"?
Because the Church determined which books were inspired, declared them authentic, compiled them, studied them and preserved them throughout the ages long before there were any Protestants.

The Scriptures, therefore, were held to the standard of the Church, not the other way around.
The RCC headquartered in Rome did not decide the canon. It didn't even exist as the head of the church then. Honestly, what twaddle Catholics have been indoctrinated with since the cradle! We have said over and over on here that the early church did not decide the canon. They DISCOVERED it. All 4 Gospels, Paul's letters, and Acts were the core of the NT Bible by AD 200. Before 400 AD the entire NT canon had been collected. The church should be held to the authority of Scripture, not the other way around.

There is a thread about this already so I refuse to discuss it further here.

What the RCC DID do was to keep copying the books of the Bible so that they would be preserved. Back in those days, hardly anyone was literate except those in the Church and political leaders. So scribes in the RCC copied the books and helped to preserve God's word. I commend them for that. But not much else.
 
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mica

Well-known member
How do we know this "for sure"?
catholics don't, do they? believers do - why is that?

Because the Church determined which books were inspired, declared them authentic, compiled them, studied them and preserved them throughout the ages long before there were any Protestants.
no, the RCC has no idea what it means to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. It considers its own words of men to be inspired and they certainly are not.

The Scriptures, therefore, were held to the standard of the Church, not the other way around.
yes, that is the way it is in catholicism. According to the RCC God's word must be changed to agree with the words of the men of the RCC. such heresy! The RCC has no problem manipulating scripture to deceive people.

who tells you these things? the men of the RCC do. it all circles back to those men that you believe. Jesus didn't teach anyone these things, nor did the apostles.

over and over catholics here tell us who their god is and it isn't the God of scripture, it's the RCC.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Because the Church determined which books were inspired, declared them authentic, compiled them, studied them and preserved them throughout the ages long before there were any Protestants.
This is old hat.
You have been indoctrinated far too long.

What role did God play in what you glorify the RCC for?
Typically you will give men the glory and then think those men were the RCC.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
I was thinking as I posted this response in another thread that this is the problem with the RCC:

I think that the truth needs to be stressed, the only thing we know for sure is the Word of God is scripture. Therefore, this is the main guide. The Holy Spirit will not teach another gospel, or another set of rules.

Scripture does not teach the PV, praying to the dead, praying to Mary, infallibility of popes and his mates, the Rosary, works based salvation, allowing sexual sinners to be leaders and the list of false teachings from the RCC goes on.

The problem is it does not trust God's word. It seeks answers from fallible sources. It claims that not everything is in scripture, no one debates that fact - fashions change, cars are now around, internet (think of what the apostles would have done with the net), planes weren't even thought about.

But we have to have a standard that we know is God's word and that is scripture. This is what the catechism states about scritpure:

102

Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:64

You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time

We know God is the same throughout time and throughout the ages. Therefore we know His word will not change. Why not hold all RC beliefs up to the standard of scripture? It is the only truth that we have. Why not hold the PV up to scripture? It is not in scripture at all. Praying to the dead is not in scripture and was not done by the apostles, so why do it?

Why the need to be arrogant and add to God's word? In fact, God says not to do so.
I disagree that "the only thing we know for sure is the Word of God is scripture". Firstly, that's a tautological sentence: "the only thing we know for sure is that scripture is scripture". Secondly, we know lots of other things for sure. Thirdly, how do we know for sure that the "Word of God" - whatever you mean by that - is scripture?
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
I disagree that "the only thing we know for sure is the Word of God is scripture". Firstly, that's a tautological sentence: "the only thing we know for sure is that scripture is scripture". Secondly, we know lots of other things for sure. Thirdly, how do we know for sure that the "Word of God" - whatever you mean by that - is scripture?
The word of God...whatever you mean by that?

Scripture IS the word of God.

Are you questioning it's inspiration? Because every time this comes up, Catholics bark 'how do you know for sure'.....showing their true colors.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
Are you questioning it's inspiration? Because every time this comes up, Catholics bark 'how do you know for sure'.....showing their true colors.
Well, we can reply, "The same way YOU know for sure that the RCC is the One True Church!"

And around and around we'll go...
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
Uh, the RCC isn't the 'one true church'....
You are right!! No question about that! But I'm just applying the RC argument back at them. (Maybe I should have put quotation marks around 'know'?) Not that I'm saying it's a good nor a valid response, but their arguments get wearisome after a while.

(Need more coffee...)
 

mica

Well-known member
balshan said:
I was thinking as I posted this response in another thread that this is the problem with the RCC:

I think that the truth needs to be stressed, the only thing we know for sure is the Word of God is scripture. Therefore, this is the main guide. The Holy Spirit will not teach another gospel, or another set of rules.
...
How do we know this "for sure"?
Your heart will know for sure once God has changed your heart (you've been born again). There will be no other above Him.

Because the Church determined which books were inspired, declared them authentic, compiled them, studied them and preserved them throughout the ages long before there were any Protestants.
wrong... because God, not because the RCC.

The Scriptures, therefore, were held to the standard of the Church, not the other way around.
God and His word are not held to the 'standard' of the RCC.

You're placing the RCC above God. God sets the 'standard'. Think about what you are saying above. Did the RCC create God? Does God follow what the RCC says? Did the RCC create man? the sun, moon, stars? the whole of the universe?

Did the RCC come to earth as man to die for the sins of mankind?

Who is it that you hold above all? According to catholic beliefs (from what is posted here) that would be the RCC (the pope, Mary etc). They are all held far above God. Catholics certainly believe what the RCC teaches, not what God teaches.
 

balshan

Well-known member
I disagree that "the only thing we know for sure is the Word of God is scripture". Firstly, that's a tautological sentence: "the only thing we know for sure is that scripture is scripture". Secondly, we know lots of other things for sure. Thirdly, how do we know for sure that the "Word of God" - whatever you mean by that - is scripture?
So your institution lies when it says in the catechism it is the word of God.

Tautology means:
  • n.
    Needless repetition of the same sense in different words; redundancy.
  • n.
    An instance of such repetition. wordnik

My sentence is not a tautology at all. Your secondly was not what I said. We don't know for sure what other things are the word of God, it certainly is not the false claims of your institution. Just because it declares they are infallible, no one has ever proved that claim to be true.

Your first, second and thirdly show the problems with the teaching of the RCC's teaching. It shows the problems with an institution that lies and teaches false doctrines. When you throw doubt on the word of God and teach that it cannot be trusted, then you do not know what to believe.

101 In order to reveal himself to men, in the condescension of his goodness God speaks to them in human words: "Indeed the words of God, expressed in the words of men, are in every way like human language, just as the Word of the eternal Father, when he took on himself the flesh of human weakness, became like men.

102
Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:

You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time.

So many times in the catechism the word of God is used throughout your catechism. So now you are not a true RC you do not trust your catechism and your post just showed that.
 

mica

Well-known member
jonathan_hili said:
I disagree that "the only thing we know for sure is the Word of God is scripture". Firstly, that's a tautological sentence: "the only thing we know for sure is that scripture is scripture". Secondly, we know lots of other things for sure.
what else do you know for sure - regarding God and His word? and how do you know those things for sure?

that you might know you are still alive, the address where you live and the make, model and color of your car etc has nothing to do with God's word.

Thirdly, how do we know for sure that the "Word of God" - whatever you mean by that - is scripture?
Whose word is it that you consider to be scripture?
 

pilgrim

Member
Your institution did not determine which books were authentic or inspired. The God did and your institution is not the NT church or God. The NT church would not have touched your institution with a ten foot barge pole, it is so full of evil fruit. Your institution has shown a major lack of standards. We know that your institution is not infallible on certain issues because that is not scriptural, no matter how much you try and do the RCC word twist to squeeze it into scripture.

Scripture is not held to the standards of your institution because the standards of your institution is murder, orgies, sexual sin, child abuse, lying, warmongering, forced conversions etc.

In fact, scripture is not held to anyone else standard at all, all institutions must be held to the standard of scripture and not the reverse. How can something that is not from God determine the standards. What a joke.

Scripture is the Word of God, the only standard it is held to is God's. Anything else is a lie from the father of lies. So many statements made by RCs show the follow man and not God.
I suggest you search for an article entitled "What criteria were used to determine the canon of Scripture?" It is a Protestant site (Biblical Training).
 

balshan

Well-known member
I suggest you search for an article entitled "What criteria were used to determine the canon of Scripture?" It is a Protestant site (Biblical Training).
I don't care what a fallible man wrote. Your institution is not the NT church, and scriptures were already recognised by them. Not your institution.
 

pilgrim

Member
I don't care what a fallible man wrote. Your institution is not the NT church, and scriptures were already recognised by them. Not your institution.
And yours is, 1500+ years later? Every Protestant denomination was founded by man, long after our Lords' visitation on earth. Not one of them can claim credibly that it is the New Testament Church.
 

balshan

Well-known member
And yours is, 1500+ years later? Every Protestant denomination was founded by man, long after our Lords' visitation on earth. Not one of them can claim credibly that it is the New Testament Church.
So another non answer, no surprise that so far not one RC can defend the false claims of its institution. It is going for the look over there defence which is always a big fail and shows that they cannot defend their institutions claim. No other church makes the false claims of your institution which daily shows it has nothing to do with the apostles or the NT church.
 
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