The twelve behind COVID misinformation

Thistle

Well-known member
This is awful. Is your son doing better now?
At the moment he's in Guam on maneuvers. He's got a high tolerance for pain and he's concerned about seeing an army doctor because he expects to get a reassignment and he doesn't want to have anything in his health file that might give some superior a reason to pass over him. I do think he is some better, but I'm having difficulty getting in touch with him.
If I were walking in your shoes I would not receive any of the vaccines either. A small percentage of people have adverse effects, and I am sad that your son was one of them.
Do you have any hesitation related to the fact that this is a new kind of vaccine technology? This has never been used before, and of course by the time any kind of long-term track record can be established that information will not be of any use to people who took this kind of vaccine now. I am not generally concerned about vaccine technology I've been involved in a number of syndicates that underwrote such vaccines. But the Novavax vaccine will be based on standard vaccine technology that we've used many times.
Many of the people listed on the top twelve are engaged in the promotion and use of pseudoscientific therapies, including alternative medicines without formal training in medicine, and one of them even claims that the shots magnetize people for example. One of them claimed on Facebook that the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine killed more people than the virus itself. Number one on the list was warned by the FDA for selling unproved COVID-19 cures.
So, what's the difference between a protocol and a cure? Doctors have been trying things since the beginning of 2020 largely because this virus has not been around long enough for any protocol be standardized.
As you already know, the manufacturers ( Pfizer and Moderna ) have officially submitted applications for full approval after at least seven months of emergency use with ~ 183 million people.
The fact remains that this vaccine technology is novel and we've seen plenty of drugs which are approved and subsequently withdrawn. As John Maynard Keynes said "when the data changes I change my opinion, what do you do?" For that reason I intend to wait on the Novavax vaccine which is based on a more standard vaccine approach.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Why would I do that?
If you are shown to be wrong about anything, would you do the same?

As far as I can tell, the delta variant grows to a higher titer in infected individuals and is therefore more easily transmissible. Because of this, this variant now predominates in the USA. The more people that are infected, the more will sicken and possibly die, although it may be that individual patients infected with alpha or delta are equally in danger of disease and death.

So something keeps you from sharing ugly death numbers you predict.

"If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
 

vibise

Well-known member
The jab also has the instructions to make the spikes...spike deniers such as you will deny this. They (you) will also deny the spikes can enter the blood and cause problems elsewhere.

Here's another headline for you

In Israel, the most vaccinated country in the world, HALF of all new “delta” infections are occurring in “fully vaccinated” people​

Where have I ever claimed that the mRNA vaccines do NOT contain instructions to make the spike protein. They most certainly do. That is how they work, by inducing cells to make the spike protein, which the immune system will recognize as non-self, resulting in an immune response that will be primed in case of future viral infection.

I have not seen much data or concern about damage that could be caused by spike protein.

Yes, we know that vaccinated people can become infected, but the infections are often symptom-free and any disease tends to be mild.

The smart thing is to get vaccinated. The consequences of the disease are way worse than negative responses to the vaccines.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Where have I ever claimed that the mRNA vaccines do NOT contain instructions to make the spike protein. They most certainly do. That is how they work, by inducing cells to make the spike protein, which the immune system will recognize as non-self, resulting in an immune response that will be primed in case of future viral infection.

I have not seen much data or concern about damage that could be caused by spike protein.

Yes, we know that vaccinated people can become infected, but the infections are often symptom-free and any disease tends to be mild.

The smart thing is to get vaccinated. The consequences of the disease are way worse than negative responses to the vaccines.
From my post...the part you chose to skip over...They (you) will also deny the spikes can enter the blood and cause problems elsewhere.
 

vibise

Well-known member
From my post...the part you chose to skip over...They (you) will also deny the spikes can enter the blood and cause problems elsewhere.
I am not denying that spike proteins could enter the blood.
The issue is whether this is a problem that is as serious as you are making it out to be.
The fact is that the number of vaccinated experiencing serious side effects is tiny relative to the total number of vaccinated.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
I am not denying that spike proteins could enter the blood.
Good. I'm glad you understand the spike proteins can enter the blood. They say 75% of the leave the muscle and enter the blood...many of them then bond with the ACE2 receptors in your organs, spinal cord, brain....heart...

Now if you want to roll that dice...go for it.

If you want to inject BILLIONS more spikes into your body with the booster...you can roll that dice again...then 6 months later you can roll it again...then six months later you can roll it again..and so on, if you're still here.
 

inertia

Super Member
Do you have any hesitation related to the fact that this is a new kind of vaccine technology?

Not at this time. It feels like mankind has discovered a new weapon to potentially fight a host of diseases that seemed impossible to correctly address even in the 1990s. Now, harnessing synthetic mRNA engineered to specify an exact targeted immune response is remarkable.

So, what's the difference between a protocol and a cure? Doctors have been trying things since the beginning of 2020 largely because this virus has not been around long enough for any protocol be standardized.

The fact remains that this vaccine technology is novel and we've seen plenty of drugs which are approved and subsequently withdrawn. As John Maynard Keynes said "when the data changes I change my opinion, what do you do?" For that reason I intend to wait on the Novavax vaccine which is based on a more standard vaccine approach.

That makes a lot of sense based on your recent experience.


 

vibise

Well-known member
Good. I'm glad you understand the spike proteins can enter the blood. They say 75% of the leave the muscle and enter the blood...many of them then bond with the ACE2 receptors in your organs, spinal cord, brain....heart...

Now if you want to roll that dice...go for it.

If you want to inject BILLIONS more spikes into your body with the booster...you can roll that dice again...then 6 months later you can roll it again...then six months later you can roll it again..and so on, if you're still here.
If this is as dangerous as you claim, then hospitals and morgues would be full of the sick and dead. So, why don't we see this?
I expect your answer to be along the lines of - just wait, it will happen any day now...
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
If this is as dangerous as you claim, then hospitals and morgues would be full of the sick and dead. So, why don't we see this?
I expect your answer to be along the lines of - just wait, it will happen any day now...
I'm not really going to argue it with you anymore.

The spike protein DOESN'T stay in the muscle. They enter into the blood stream and attach to ACE2 in other organs.
If you think that's OK....Then have at it. Get the booster when it comes out.
 

vibise

Well-known member
I'm not really going to argue it with you anymore.

The spike protein DOESN'T stay in the muscle. They enter into the blood stream and attach to ACE2 in other organs.
If you think that's OK....Then have at it. Get the booster when it comes out.
If you think that is not OK to the point of being dangerous, then we would have seen the serious consequences for millions of vaccinated people by now. And we see nothing like that.

I got the vaccine and will get a booster if it is recommended for me.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
If you think that is not OK to the point of being dangerous, then we would have seen the serious consequences for millions of vaccinated people by now. And we see nothing like that.

I got the vaccine and will get a booster if it is recommended for me.
Clap, clap, clap...good for you.
 

inertia

Super Member
If you think that is not OK to the point of being dangerous, then we would have seen the serious consequences for millions of vaccinated people by now. And we see nothing like that.

I got the vaccine and will get a booster if it is recommended for me.

I will receive a booster too if required.

The Darwin Variant.JPG

"Darwin variant" - not so much


 

Storch

Member
If you think that is not OK to the point of being dangerous, then we would have seen the serious consequences for millions of vaccinated people by now.
Ever heard of VAERS?

Not even curious about the harm from the spike protein, are you?
 

inertia

Super Member
All i am seeing here is you punking out from the legit questions posed.

In my view, the promotion and use of pseudoscientific therapies, and trusting alternative homeopathic "medicines", and those that sell the equivalent of snake oils is similar to trusting an astrologer and their horoscopes, a medium with tarot cards, palm readings, séances, and fortune-tellers for one's health. @Thistle, on the other hand, will wait on the Novavax vaccine for good and personal reasons. A true anti-vaccination believer would never trust Novavax - ever.

Steve McQueen for example decided to use an unconventional cancer treatment in Baja California that included large doses of vitamins, a purely organic diet, frequent coffee enemas, and intermuscular injections of animal cells. That didn't work out so well and I have reason to believe that people were taking advantage of his terrible and desperate condition for monetary gain. -- Proverbs 20:17, 1 Timothy 6:9-10

(Deuteronomy 18: 10-13, Leviticus 20:27, Acts 16:16-18)


 
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Harry Leggs

Well-known member
In my view,
Opinion. Yawn and self-serving, at that.
the promotion and use of pseudoscientific therapies, and trusting alternative homeopathic "medicines"
So how do you know all these new jabs for Covid are not in the same category? Are they even necessary? Or is it money-making by unaccountable authorities?
, and those that sell the equivalent of snake oils
Snake oil salesmen were held to account. Your vaccine promoters are unaccountable.
is similar to trusting an astrologer and their horoscopes,
They do not promote the injection of mystery brews many of which are grown in animal concoctions from mice and monkeys. Who knows what animal virus hitches a ride and infects humans in this manner? Your problem is not reading the downsides to vaccines and all the damage done to innocents in the name of medical progress which really means big bucks for unaccountable authorities like Fauci. Who can lie on TV about funding research and quibble over the meaning of gain of function? Con men with medical degrees and drunk on power. Most of these vaccines artificially manipulate the immune system and who knows what happens as a result? Activation of a hidden virus laying in wait?
Steve McQueen for example decided to use an unconventional cancer treatment in Baja California
What is conventional. Poison radiation treatment? What a laff. I knew a guy who went that route over the medical alternative since treatment involved impotence and did not want to risk since he was married.
that included large doses of vitamins, a purely organic diet,
Yup.
frequent coffee enemas, and intermuscular injections of animal cells.
That would be out. This is all strawman anyway. Nobody here is suggesting any of this over C-19 jabs. Get real. Why are you even bring this up? Who here is advocating coffee enemas? You already have vaccines grown in animal tissues so what is your problem with animal cells? The origin source of some vaccines was a dead fetus. Now you can downplay that all you want. The fact remains, absent the dead fetus, no vaccine.
That didn't work out so well and I have reason to believe that people were taking advantage of his terrible and desperate condition for monetary gain. -- Micah 2:1-3, Proverbs 20:17, 1 Timothy 6:9-10

(Deuteronomy 18: 10-13, Leviticus 20:27, Acts 16:16-18)


Work on verses on honesty. That is your weak point.
 
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vibise

Well-known member
Ever heard of VAERS?

Not even curious about the harm from the spike protein, are you?
Of course I have. A list of adverse health effects reported after vaccination, few of which have actually been linked to vaccination, and many of which align with the numbers of the same adverse health effects in the general population.
 

vibise

Well-known member
Opinion. Yawn and self-serving, at that.

So how do you know all these new jabs for Covid are not in the same category? Are they even necessary? Or is it money-making by unaccountable authorities?

Snake oil salesmen were held to account. Your vaccine promoters are unaccountable.

They do not promote the injection of mystery brews many of which are grown in animal concoctions from mice and monkeys. Who knows what animal virus hitches a ride and infects humans in this manner? Your problem is not reading the downsides to vaccines and all the damage done to innocents in the name of medical progress which really means big bucks for unaccountable authorities like Fauci. Who can lie on TV about funding research and quibble over the meaning of gain of function? Con men with medical degrees and drunk on power. Most of these vaccines artificially manipulate the immune system and who knows what happens as a result? Activation of a hidden virus laying in wait?

What is conventional. Poison radiation treatment? What a laff. I knew a guy who went that route over the medical alternative since treatment involved impotence and did not want to risk since he was married.

Yup.

That would be out. This is all strawman anyway. Nobody here is suggesting any of this over C-19 jabs. Get real. Why are you even bring this up? Who here is advocating coffee enemas? You already have vaccines grown in animal tissues so what is your problem with animal cells? The origin source of some vaccines was a dead fetus. Now you can downplay that all you want. The fact remains, absent the dead fetus, no vaccine.

Work on verses on honesty. That is your weak point.
What nonsense!

Homeopathic "remedies" have absolutely no basis in science, and in fact, science discounts those claims.

On the other hand, modern molecular biology and vaccinology can clearly establish what is in vaccines, and present confirmed science to explain how these vaccines work. There are no mystery brews. And yes the goal is to prime the immune system to be able to handle any future infection by that pathogen - that is how ALL vaccines work. And this is a long-proven technology that has saved billions of lives.

Vaccine development uses testing in human 293 cells, a cell line established from fetal tissue decades ago that has proven to be useful in many other areas of biomedical research. We use it in my lab routinely. If you object to that, then stop using conventional medical treatments.
 

Harry Leggs

Well-known member
What nonsense!
You mean the part about dead fetus as origin source or grown in animal parts like monkeys or mice?
Homeopathic "remedies" have absolutely no basis in science, and in fact, science discounts those claims.
Not all of them. Many are on board with pot legalization. That falsifies your claim right there.
On the other hand, modern molecular biology and vaccinology can clearly establish what is in vaccines,
Animal parts and artificial manipulation of the immune system?
and present confirmed science to explain how these vaccines work.
Where is the ingredients which says grown in animal tissue?
There are no mystery brews.
They are all mystery brews in one kind or another. If not the ingredients label is esoteric which means nobody understands the ingredients.
And yes the goal is to prime the immune system
Manipulate the immune system. What is matter with a healthy immune system and why outside manipulation and what are the consequences. Like unintended consequences like activation of a dormant virus?
to be able to handle any future infection by that pathogen - that is how ALL vaccines work.
Artificial manipulation of immune systems and in many cases healthy immune systems which bypass the body's natural defenses like skin and stomach.
And this is a long-proven technology that has saved billions of lives.
Perhaps too much of a good thing. Like booze or cake. Besides you don't know the downside like ebola from polio vaccines.
Vaccine development uses testing in human 293 cells, a cell line established from fetal tissue decades ago that has proven to be useful in many other areas of biomedical research.
Absent the dead fetus no vaccine. Fact. I am sure Mengele did a lot of good for science based on his experimentation with twins. There was the Tuskegee syphilis experiments. Then there is AIDS and the vaccination of one million+ Africans with a virus derived from monkey parts.
We use it in my lab routinely.
EDITED--RULES 12/22 Violation
 
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