The Two Witnesses In Revelation Chapters 11 Bring The Vial Plagues Of God's Wrath

Buzzard said:
'Christ wasn't born in heaven
Christ was born in Bethlehem of Judaea;
in the night of our March 31st / April 1st 4BC

How did you arrive at these dates for the birth of Christ?
Good question shnarkle;
but the prophetic timeline starting with Moses
is not for this thread
and hugh amounts of ground work would have to be laid 1st
 
Anybody knows those dates,
I didn't say I didn't know them.
I was taught that in 2nd grade at public school :giggle:
You weren't taught anything. The term is "inculcated". In other words, you have no idea why anyone would come up with those dates. Got it.

The correct date is closer to the end of August/first of September which is easily established by noting that Zecheriah's priestly duties occurred during the course of Abiah (e.g. 12 -18 Sivan = June 13 - 19) which would have placed the conception of John the Baptist on or around the 23rd-24th of June. Thus, when Mary came to visit Elizabeth six months later, that would have placed Christ's conception on or around the 25th of December, and his birth nine months later on or around the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. Note the word play with " And tabernacled with (or among) us." (Greek kai eskenosen en hemin) John 1:14
 
Thus, when Mary came to visit Elizabeth six months later, that would have placed Christ's conception on or around the 25th of December, and his birth nine months later on or around the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. Note the word play with " And tabernacled with (or among) us." (Greek kai eskenosen en hemin) John 1:14
Thus?

You must have a PhD in Theology?
 
Thus?

You must have a PhD in Theology?
It's not a theological term. Evidently, that public school you went to didn't teach much in the way of literature, logic, common sense, etiquette, etc.

thus
[T͟Həs]

ADVERB
literary
formal

  1. as a result or consequence of this; therefore:

    consequently · as a consequence

 
Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth”.
a thousand two hundred and threescore days is exactly 42 months or 3 1/2 years, the exact length, or measure of the Lord Jesus ministry. And the POWER that fueled this ministry is God himself the Holy Spirit. Scripture, John 3:34 "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him”. John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

only ALIVE men can wittness, dead men cannot. the only two ALIVE men on the planet in the Lord Jesus day was he, and John the Baptist.

A. the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit diversified in flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state. so he was ALIVE.

B. John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from Birth, (see Luke 1:15).

and all other men was DEAD in their sins and tresspasses.

so the only two who could testify was the Lord Jesus, and John the Baptist.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
I disagree, I believe Enoch/Elijah who never experienced physical death
Nowhere is it stated in scripture that they didn't experience death, for all that is stated about Enoch is that he didn't perceive his death and concerning Elijah, he was taken up into the heavens above the earth and most likely taken to another location on the earth until he died there.

There is evidence in the scriptures that Elijah wrote a letter after he departed in the flaming chariot but off hand I forgot where that is in the scriptures.


Concerning what it meant for Enoch to be taken, you should read Isaiah 57, for it should explain it for you.

Isaiah 57
1 The righteous man perishes, and no man takes it to heart;
And devout men are taken away, while no one understands.
For the righteous man is taken away from evil,
2 He enters into peace;
They rest in their beds,


I will however agree with you on one point you made, that the trumps and the vials are the same judgment events and that is made obvious by what is stated to take place in the 6th and 7th trumpet and 6th and 7th vial.
 
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Nowhere is it stated in scripture that they didn't experience death, for all that is stated about Enoch is that he didn't perceive his death and concerning Elijah, he was taken up into the heavens above the earth and most likely taken to another location on the earth until he died there.

There is evidence in the scriptures that Elijah wrote a letter after he departed in the flaming chariot but off hand I forgot where that it.

I will however agree with you on one thing on this point, that the trumps and the vials are the same judgment events and that is made obvious by what is stated to take place in the 6th and 7th trumpet and 6th and 7th vial.
the question is which heaven he was taken up into? the First heaven the sky? yes, he simply transported to another part of the planet. just as Philp after baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch and was found at Azotus.

classic example as to what happen to Elijah and Enoch.

:ninja:
 
the question is which heaven he was taken up into? the First heaven the sky? yes, he simply transported to another part of the planet. just as Philp after baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch and was found at Azotus.

classic example as to what happen to Elijah and Enoch.

:ninja:
I believe that Enoch died and that this is what it meant by "Enoch walked with the Lord and was not, for the Lord took him" but he didn't die the same as most men do, with a knowledge that they are dying but he went peacefully probably in his sleep like Isaiah 57 also speaks of below.


Isaiah 57

1The righteous man perishes, and no man takes it to heart; And devout men are taken away, while no one understands.
For the righteous man is taken away from evil,

2 He enters into peace; They rest in their beds,


The big problem with this idea that Enoch and Elijah were taken alive into heaven, is that Jesus said this "no one ascended into heaven except he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man".


In this, Jesus was saying that he had to enter into heaven first having paid the price for the sin of all men by his own blood and death and this included Enoch and Elijah as well and so there is no way that they went alive into heaven before Jesus.
 
I believe that Enoch died and that this is what it meant by "Enoch walked with the Lord and was not,
Your claim is "False"!

Hebrews 11:KJV
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
 
I believe that Enoch died and that this is what it meant by "Enoch walked with the Lord and was not, for the Lord took him" but he didn't die the same as most men do, with a knowledge that they are dying but he went peacefully probably in his sleep like Isaiah 57 also speaks of below.
First thanks for the reply, second, the bible is clear, he died as all of us will until the Lord Jesus returns. supportive scripture, Hebrews chapter 11 start reading from verse 1- to Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

yes, including Enoch. ....... all Died. now if either Elijah or Enoch entered heaven "ALIVE" then the bible lied when it states, 1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." if Christ is the FIRST-Fruit, then there is none before him, which again they all died.

also, if Enoch did not die, as Hebrews states that he did, who was in Adam, then azs said 1 Corinthians 15:22 is in ERROR, meaning one is saying God is in ERROR. for the apostle Paul was under the influence of the Holy Spirit when writing these epistles.

I believe the bible, and not IGNORANT men. as the bible say he, Enoch, as well as Elijah died, then they died, for me case closed. or unless God somewhere else in his word states differently. so far, I have found it not.

:ninja:
 
Your claim is "False"!

Hebrews 11:KJV
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
thanks for the reply but translated here simply means "TRANSPORTED". other words he was simply moved by the Spirit to another location. this is nothing new the Lord moved or transported the Prophet and Priest Ezekiel and sit him down in a valley of dry bones. supportive scripture, Ezekiel 37:1 "The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,"

as said this is nothing NEW.

:ninja:
 
First thanks for the reply, second, the bible is clear, he died as all of us will until the Lord Jesus returns. supportive scripture, Hebrews chapter 11 start reading from verse 1- to Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

yes, including Enoch. ....... all Died. now if either Elijah or Enoch entered heaven "ALIVE" then the bible lied when it states, 1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." if Christ is the FIRST-Fruit, then there is none before him, which again they all died.

also, if Enoch did not die, as Hebrews states that he did, who was in Adam, then azs said 1 Corinthians 15:22 is in ERROR, meaning one is saying God is in ERROR. for the apostle Paul was under the influence of the Holy Spirit when writing these epistles.

I believe the bible, and not IGNORANT men. as the bible say he, Enoch, as well as Elijah died, then they died, for me case closed. or unless God somewhere else in his word states differently. so far, I have found it not.

:ninja:
Yep and those are all good passages that prove it also.
 
Your claim is "False"!

Hebrews 11:KJV
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Sorry but when it says "Enoch was translated so that he should not see death" it isn't saying that he didn't die but only that he didn't know it when through death God took him away or in other words "he didn't perceive his death but fell asleep without knowing it.



Being you want to quote Hebrews 11 why did you not pay any attention to verse 13 where the writer speaking of all those he just got through mentioning including Enoch concludes with this "These all died in faith not having received the promises"

Like I said and will again, Isaiah 57 pretty much explains what it meant for Enoch to be taken and it doesn't mean that he didn't die for until Jesus died on that cross for our sins, no one could ever enter into heaven because no matter how righteous they were by faith, they would still have the enemy of sin in their flesh and which would prevent them from it.

Furthermore, you also end up contradicting the words of Jesus to Nicodemus when he said "no one has ascended into heaven except he who came down from heaven, even the son of man".

In other words, Jesus had to be the forerunning for all those who believe being he was the one who would pay for their sins so that they could enter heaven.
 
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thanks for the reply but translated here simply means "TRANSPORTED". other words he was simply moved by the Spirit to another location. this is nothing new the Lord moved or transported the Prophet and Priest Ezekiel and sit him down in a valley of dry bones. supportive scripture, Ezekiel 37:1 "The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,"

as said this is nothing NEW.

:ninja:
I Disagree, scripture clearly states Enoch didn't see death "Case Closed"

Hebrews 11:KJV
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
 
I Disagree, scripture clearly states Enoch didn't see death "Case Closed"

Hebrews 11:KJV
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Cold case re-open. should, should, should not see death meaning not right there where he was, because God moved him to another place of safety.

now the book of Hebrews U want 2 used, . Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
do u know what "translated means?

translated: G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
1. to transfer.
2. (literally) to transport.

3. (by implication) to exchange.
4. (reflexively) to change sides.
5. (figuratively) to pervert.
[from G3326 and G5087]
KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn
Root(s): G3326, G5087

NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY, Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

yes, the case is closed.

:ninja:
 
Your claim is "False"!

Hebrews 11:KJV
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Here is something else you need to consider as well, for God most probably took Enoch away in a peaceful unconscious death so that he wouldn't at his old age experience the evil that was coming and God's judgment on the wicked by the flood as a result and which would make sense also with what Isaiah 57 reveals below.

Isaiah 57

1The righteous man perishes, and no man takes it to heart; And devout men are taken away, while no one understands.
For the righteous man is taken away from evil,

2 He enters into peace; They rest in their beds,

I Disagree, scripture clearly states Enoch didn't see death "Case Closed"

Hebrews 11:KJV
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
And you should know by now that the word "see" can also be used figurative for not perceiving his death or not being aware that he had died because he died in his sleep without any pain or worry about it and just like those scriptures I gave you also say in Isaiah 57.

Or didn't you even think to yourself why if the writer of Hebrews wanted to say that Enoch didn't die, why he wouldn't have just stated it that way, "by faith Enoch was translated so that he didn't die" instead of saying "He was translated so that he should not see death"?

Why use the word "see" at all?

Sorry but the full context of Hebrews 11 in that 13th verse clearly states that all of those what he spoke of from verse 1-13 "died in faith not having received the promises" and that is a fact that you have no answer for with your false interpretation of it.
 
Cold case re-open. should, should, should not see death meaning not right there where he was, because God moved him to another place of safety.

now the book of Hebrews U want 2 used, . Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
do u know what "translated means?

translated: G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
1. to transfer.
2. (literally) to transport.

3. (by implication) to exchange.
4. (reflexively) to change sides.
5. (figuratively) to pervert.
[from G3326 and G5087]
KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn
Root(s): G3326, G5087

NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY, Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

yes, the case is closed.

:ninja:
I Disagree, scripture clearly states Enoch didn't see death "Case Closed"

Hebrews 11:KJV
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
 
I Disagree, scripture clearly states Enoch didn't see death
when? listen, Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
now, is Enoch a man? yes, ... he died, and to support this, Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

"all these that died included Enoch", just read the previous verses before this. listen the term not to see death, no man took his natural lie. he died naturally. if not, you're saying that the bible is lying, GOD FORBID. it u who need to unde rstand the terms used, as in "Took him", so that he could not see death, he was transported to preserve his natural life.

else you are calling God a Lier...... not dealers' choice.... your choice. CASE CLOSED........ :cool:

:ninja:
 
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