The Ultimate Apologetic

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. So don't be haughty; Rom 11:20

Through Christ you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory...1 Peter 1:21

Now that faith has come, you're all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29
Now that faith is come I am like the Father of it.
 

Josheb

Well-known member
Nope.


I never said so.
I never said you did say so. I simply covered the base, furthering the discussion to what scriptures says about the destiny of humanity. God does save everyone. Not all skeptics will come around no matter how much they are shown. You can disagree but it is what is plainly stated often and repeatedly throughout God's word.

Isaiah 35:8
"A highway will be there, a roadway, and it will be called the Highway of Holiness. The unclean will not travel on it, but it will be for the one who walks that way, and fools will not wander on it."

Matthew 7:7-14
"Ask, and it will be given to you; [h]seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Or what person is there among you [j]who, when his son asks for a loaf of bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? So if you, despite being [m]evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want [o]them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets. Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Luke 16:31
"But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Galatians 6:1-10
"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. For each one will bear his own load. The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith."


It will not matter how consistently the regenerate act with their regenerate condition and the Holy Spirit. Not all "skeptics" will come around no matter how much they are shown.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Then Ananias said:
‘The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. Acts 22:14
Now that faith is come I am like the Father of it.
And so now you're telling us that after you hatched the doctrine of regenerated at the tree of knowledge, you're coming clean that it was something you concocted.

I am writing you so that you will not live in sin; violating God’s divine law.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate [who will intercede for us] with the Father: Jesus Christ the righteous One, 1 John 2:1

Who has come according to the power of an endless life.

By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant. ...
Therefore He is able to save forever those who come to God through Him; Heb 7:16-25
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Then Ananias said:
‘The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. Acts 22:14
God is my Father, I know His will for mankind, I have receieved from God His will that I be like Him as Jesu was like Him.

You are of Paul instead. he is all that you know about a god.
And so now you're telling us that after you hatched the doctrine of regenerated at the tree of knowledge, you're coming clean that it was something you concocted.
Na same thing Adam receieved when God gave him His knowledge. Try and open your closed mind a little and read Gen 3:22 where Adam became like God to know this difference.

This is the essence of the whole book from the very beginning where God comes to man and opens up His knowledge in us. The mercy seat, the place God and man come together as one.

You cant see that can where where God came to Adam Himself, Abraham Himself, Moses Himself, Mary Himself, Jesus Himself, 120 Himself and opened to all of these who He is and His will for you the very same as He does in us all today is all. And you dont even know why you are not like these but like Paul instead of having from God that what Jesus received from Him ad these others mentioned.

You are depraving your mind of the Christ.

Can you tell us why your mind is so closed to have the same mind of the Father that Jesus received from Him that His way to be like Him and that Jesus hatched your doctrine for generation? Oops' I mean Pauls doctrine for you are of Paul not Christ.

That is why the ways for God to regenerate people back to His same original image is hatched for you.
I am writing you so that you will not live in sin; violating God’s divine law.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate [who will intercede for us] with the Father: Jesus Christ the righteous One, 1 John 2:1
And we who are born again, born of God to be like Him, it is impossible to be in sin. 1 John 3:9, and if you are not like Him then you have violated Gods divine laws to be perfect as He is perfect, have His same mind, walk in it as He walks in it with the same signs following as His laws states.
Who has come according to the power of an endless life.

By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant. ...
Therefore He is able to save forever those who come to God through Him; Heb 7:16-25
Yes just as Jesus came to Him and God manifested Himself in Jesus. See Matt 3:16. No one can come to the Father through Jesus, but you can come to the Father by him if you will actually follow him to the Father. But because Paul has duped you into believing him instead, that isn't going to happen is it?

You should al least consider the ways of God that you may be born of Him as Jesus was born of Him.

You know very well there are a lot of things you dont understand concerning things such as Matt 3:16 that you have avoided from the beginning of our talks where God came to Jesus and spend up to him who He is and all of His heaven in that man. For if you were born of God you would understand what Jesus understood of God. You only cling to opinions from some such as Paul instead of knowing God yourself as Jesus knew Him. Jesus was clear that ye must be born again born of God or you never will know Him for who He is as Jesus receieved from Him. Jesus is not your way, Paul is.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
God is my Father, I know His will for mankind,...
You are of Paul instead. he is all that you know about a god.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; John 6:44
And we who are born again, born of God to be like Him
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose no one, John 6:39
No one can come to the Father through Jesus, but you can come to the Father by him if you will actually follow him to the Father. But because Paul has duped you into believing him instead, that isn't going to happen is it?
As You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. John 17:2
You know very well there are a lot of things you dont understand
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20
Jesus was clear that ye must be born again born of God or you never will know Him for who He is as Jesus receieved from Him. Jesus is not your way, Paul is.
As many as believed and received Christ, to them He gave the right to become children of God,
Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but born of God. John 1:12-13
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; John 6:44
Then why are you drawn to Paul as a sinner instead?
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose no one, John 6:39
But He has lost you to Paul in his ways instead o Jesus was in the Father.
As You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. John 17:2
Yes I have given my all, all of myself over to God and will live that eternal life until I am returned to dust.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20
Amen, and when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him as well. 1 John 3.
As many as believed and received Christ, to them He gave the right to become children of God,
Yes Jesus was His child as well, I am His son to, His child, his son.
Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but born of God. John 1:12-13
Amen, Jesus was made of a woman born under the law no different from you or I, the difference is Jesus was born of God in Matt 3:16 when GHod came to him and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man, He did the same in me, He is supposed to do the same in you.

Do you know why that has not happened in you and you go to Paul for information instead? You cant receive from God the same as Jesus did because you do not believe that you can.

It is really refreshing to hear you finally quote of Jesus instead of Paul, perhaps if you keep repeating that what Jesus said you should be that you will actually receive Him as Jesus did instead of Paul.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
We are also told by Jesus in Matthew 5:15:

The "light" Jesus is speaking of here is the goodness and love of the Christian walk.

Yes that is true but more. The light in question is God the Father who abides in believers and He is the one who prepares the works which true believers do. We only yield up our bodies to Him to do whatever He wants with them. We ourselves do no "achieving" or "showing" or "demonstrating" to the world. God does it all and we just surrender up our bodies of flesh to Him to do it.

If we can demonstrate that the infilling of the Holy Ghost has granted us Godly wisdom and love and caring above what merely being human can achieve, then I think the "skeptics" will come around to belief in Christ. Let's all live the life of Christ.

Yes this is totally right. This is really the only way. But most would rather avoid this fact so they can custom design a life according to their own desires.

The testimony God gave to the world is not a book. It is His servants, those who follow in the footsteps of His son.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; John 6:44
Then why are you drawn to Paul as a sinner instead?
But He has lost you to Paul in his ways instead o Jesus was in the Father.
Yes I have given my all, all of myself over to God and will live that eternal life until I am returned to dust.
The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. ...And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man. 1 Cor 15
Do you know why that has not happened in you and you go to Paul for information instead? You cant receive from God the same as Jesus did because you do not believe that you can.
But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit,... And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory 2 Cor 3:16-18
It is really refreshing to hear you finally quote of Jesus instead of Paul, perhaps if you keep repeating that what Jesus said you should be that you will actually receive Him as Jesus did instead of Paul.
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; John 6:44
Note his Father who was his God but you have made Jesus a god instead of the One who sent Jesus haven't you?
The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. ...And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man. 1 Cor 15
In spiritual terms that escapes your thinking, The first man Adam was of flesh, of this earth, earthly. The second man Adam, the one who became like God to know this difference is from heaven. Jesus described this change from carnality to spirituality as Born again.

And Jesus received the same in Matt 3:16 where he became a new man in the Father, but you dont believe what it says do you?
That is why I follow Jesus instead of Paul.
But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit,... And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory 2 Cor 3:16-18
Then if that veil was lifted in Paul then why was he still the sinner? Darkness is over the sinner isn't it?
That is why I follow Jesus instead of second hand opinions from someone such as Paul. God Himself is sufficient enough, but He is not sufficient enough for you so you cling to someone like Paul instead.
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4
Pauls gospel is not veiled at all for we who has received from God that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16 and all of His heaven is open to us.

Paul never got that one unveiled. That is why I follow Jesus instead of Paul. God opens eyes, Paul closes them.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
And Jesus received the same in Matt 3:16 where he became a new man in the Father, but you dont believe what it says do you?
I don't believe a word that comes out of your double talking gnostic mouth.
That is why I follow Jesus instead of Paul.
He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, Titus 3:5-6
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
I don't believe a word that comes out of your double talking gnostic mouth.
SO you really believe that I wrote Matt 3:16? Thanks but I cant take the credit for that. But I do understand how that is blaspheme for your religious mind that isa sided from the mind of God Jesus receieved in Matt 3:16. The One that you dont have a clue who is from lack in receiebeg the same one Jesus did in you.

I really do understand why you believe the ways of Jesus is gnostic for sure.
He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, Titus 3:5-6
Actually God pours out His Spirit to all who will receive the same One He poured out in Jesus in Matt 3:16.

I do not follow Paul or any other, I follow the ways of Jesus in the Father myself. Jesus didnt follow any man either, for God is sufficient to give to me the same as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16, something foreign to your religious mind.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
SO you really believe that I wrote Matt 3:16? Thanks but I cant take the credit for that.
These are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5
I really do understand why you believe the ways of Jesus is gnostic for sure.

r God is sufficient to give to me the same as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16, something foreign to your religious mind.
Indeed I have all and abound...For my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen. Phil 4;18-20
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
These are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5
That is what I keep saying dont I?
Indeed I have all and abound...For my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen. Phil 4;18-20
God supplies my needs according to His will for me by His Spirit. He supplied Jesus spiritual need as well.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
These are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5
That is what I keep saying dont I?
It depends which way the wind blows:
Gary Mac said:
It isn't about having faith in God or Jesus, it is about having the faith of yourself .....
God supplies my needs according to His will for me by His Spirit. He supplied Jesus spiritual need as well.
God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Cor 1:9
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
These are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5
You danced around Matt 3:16 from a far distance.
It depends which way the wind blows:
It does to a mind that is blown by every doctrine of wind. The reality of God is Him manifest in you as He was in Jesus but to you that seems to be just hot air?
God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Cor 1:9
Then why did Paul try and get people to follow him in his assessments for his god as a sinner, and even stated he used tricker to get the gullible as yourself to follow him in his ways for his beliefs for a god and to justify his sin instead of following Jesus in His ways to be without sin and perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. They are not the same teachings at all.

That is why I follow the ways of Jesus instead of Paul or any other man in their opinions. Jesus trusted no man either, only the Father. Something not many do who claim Christianity as their religious minds.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Then why did Paul try and get people to follow him in his assessments for his god as a sinner, and even stated he used tricker to get the gullible as yourself to follow him...
He Himself gave some to be apostles,... for the equipping of the saints... till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man;
It does to a mind that is blown by every doctrine of wind. The reality of God is Him manifest in you as He was in Jesus but to you that seems to be just hot air?
That we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— Eph 4
That is why I follow the ways of Jesus instead of Paul...
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
You danced around Matt 3:16 from a far distance.
Believers don't sidestep, they go straight to the source:

He appeared to them after He resurrected...and gave them this command: “Wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1

32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. Acts 2
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
He Himself gave some to be apostles,... for the equipping of the saints... till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man;
I am perfect even as my father in heaven is perfect as Jesus commanded of me. I know he didnt command that of you for to you that is gnosticism as you say it is. I am not of the imperfections that Paul presented at all.
That we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— Eph 4
You are tossed all over th space and has no focus in being that person of Christ anointed of God to have His same mind as Jesus did.
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
To each one of us who is born of God as Jesus was born of God, born again, we are exactly like our Father who is God. Ye to must be born again or you never will be like Him as Jesus was in what you call him a gnostic.
Believers don't sidestep, they go straight to the source:
Believers such as Jim Jones and David Koresh?
Come on man your fishing but not catching anything.
He appeared to them after He resurrected...and gave them this command: “Wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1
Same happened in Adam, he became like God to know this difference way before these in Acts 1 did, so did Abraham, Moses, Mary, and Jesus in Matt 3:16, and the 120 became like Him no different from them before them. But the ways of the Father where He opens up who He is is gnosticism for you and the deacon that you are not as Jesus was n the father because his teachings is gnosticism just as you say it is.
32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. Acts 2
Jesus is no longer with us, but I do have the same Spirit of God in me Jesus had in himself and said you should have as well.

Jesus went as far to say that in that day ye shall ask me neon but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it yo. Matt 5;48, I believe. But sense his way is gnosticism for you thenJesus might as well have said noting at all.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
I am perfect even as my father...I know he didnt command that of you for to you that is gnosticism as you say it is.
He commanded that we believe in His Son. 1 John 3:23
You are tossed all over th space and has no focus in being that person of Christ anointed of God to have His same mind as Jesus did.
Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him. John 6:27
To each one of us who is born of God as Jesus was born of God, born again, we are exactly like our Father who is God. Ye to must be born again ...
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12
Believers such as Jim Jones and David Koresh?
Come on man your fishing but not catching anything.
Believers, not deceivers my gnostic friend.

He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18
Jesus is no longer with us, but I do have the same Spirit of God in me Jesus had in himself...
But sense his way is gnosticism for you thenJesus might as well have said noting at all.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
He commanded that we believe in His Son. 1 John 3:23
He commands that we be His son and like His son Jesus if we are to be of Him, and that takes obedience on your part to do so.
Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him. John 6:27
And that which perishes comes from the laws from a pulpit.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12
Amen I am His son.
Believers, not deceivers my gnostic friend.
Believer as Catholic? Mormons? Muslims? COCs, Baptists, You? Which has the correct belief -- LOL.
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18'
Yes and most do not know what it is to begotten of God and His son do they?
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20
I have stated over and over that understanding doesnt come from a book, it doesnt come through the laws of a pulpit, it comes only one way and that way is the some One who came to Jesus and spend to him who He is and all of His heaven, not even Jesus could know Him without that manifestation of proven in Matty 3:16 where it took God Himself to open His ways in Jesus. But you dont believe Matt 3:16 and the reason you cant communicate with God yourself and have to resort on another such as Paul instead of God.

Jesus was very clear that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you, but you go to Paul for his enlightenment instead of God who is the only one who can open His heaven to you just as He did in Jesus. Not even Jesus could have escaped that fact. But because His ways is gnostic to you, and that you dont even know what a gnostic is and won't even venture to investigate, there is no way He can come to you and communicate with you at all. You have a belief system instead of the reality of. ,

He isn't manifest in many here for sure.
 
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