The unmerited favor of God

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Grace is grace, that is, unmerited favor, a freely given gift. Again, see Eph. 2.

I have a question, as to that claim.

Is God extending His grace of the forgiveness of sins, on conditions such as repentance and water baptism--or walking in the light--examples of "unmerited grace"?

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I have a question, as to that claim.

Is God extending His grace of the forgiveness of sins, on conditions such as repentance and water baptism--or walking in the light--examples of "unmerited grace"?

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Surely--with all the talk about unmerited grace--there should be some comments on this?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
What makes you think you are sinless and can merit His grace?
What makes you think that's the argument?

There is a path to grace. If we don't follow that path, we cannot obtain it. Following that path does not make us sinless but it does reconcile us to God. If you believe being reconciled to God merits grace, then so be it. But no one said it made us sinless.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
What makes you think you are sinless and can merit His grace?

Are you claiming these were sinless in obtaining His grace trough repentance and water baptism?

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Is that an example of "unmerited grace"?
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Are you claiming these were sinless in obtaining His grace trough repentance and water baptism?

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Is that an example of "unmerited grace"?
Yes, it is unmerited. Unless you’re perfect, you can’t merit that gift. It’s given, out of love and mercy, to imperfect people.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member

Are you claiming these were sinless in obtaining His grace trough repentance and water baptism?

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Is that an example of "unmerited grace"?

Yes, it is unmerited.

Then God giving His grace to them which obey Him is still unmerited grace. I agree.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
dberrie said----Are you claiming these were sinless in obtaining His grace trough repentance and water baptism?

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Is that an example of "unmerited grace"?

Magdalena said:
Yes, it is unmerited.

Then God giving His grace to them which obey Him is still unmerited grace. I agree.

Anyone like to comment on this--as I believe that admission by Magdalena deserves some chatter.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
dberrie said----Are you claiming these were sinless in obtaining His grace trough repentance and water baptism?

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Is that an example of "unmerited grace"?
Yes. Being forgiven of your sins is unmerited Grace.

Then God giving His grace to them which obey Him is still unmerited grace. I agree.

Anyone like to comment on this--as I believe that admission by Magdalena deserves some chatter.
No one merits Grace… forgiveness, eternal life. It’s a gift. Those who receive it have their hearts turned toward following Christ and living with love and compassion. And that is what the two commandments He gave us are about. We try to live that way out of love and gratitude and a heart of compassion, following His example.

We don’t receive Grace from any of our own works.

And you’re attempting to bring ‘faith alone’ to the board again.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
The unregenerated don't obey Christ, nor do they feel the need to. Only those who have faith in Jesus Christ and are made a new creation in Him will want to obey Jesus, but out of love, not out of compulsion. Besides, obeying the Gospel simply means believing it:


Support for this view is seen in many passages. Acts 6:7 says that “many of the priests were obedient to the faith.” Romans 10:16 2 Thess 1:8 speak of obeying or disobeying the Gospel. See also, John 3:36; 6:28-29; 1 Pet 1:2, 22; 2:7-8; and Acts 5:32.
The above is from an older version of this essay:

 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
Yes. Being forgiven of your sins is unmerited Grace.

Then again--obeying God, and doing His works, for the forgiveness of sins--is unmerited grace:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How does that compare with a theology which preaches there are no acts of obedience to Jesus Christ, which is necessary in order to receive eternal life?

Very friendly to LDS theology, though.

No one merits Grace… forgiveness, eternal life. It’s a gift.

OK--it's a gift which goes to them which obey God. How does that vindicate the theology pawned here?

It certainly comports to LDS theology.

Those who receive it have their hearts turned toward following Christ and living with love and compassion.
And that is what the two commandments He gave us are about. We try to live that way out of love and gratitude and a heart of compassion, following His example.

I agree. And this is an example:

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The question now being--is it necessary to love God--in order to receive eternal life?

We don’t receive Grace from any of our own works.

Any act of obedience to God--isn't obedience to one's "own works".

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
The unregenerated don't obey Christ, nor do they feel the need to.

Unless one believes they are regenerated without the Holy Ghost--that claim is unbiblical, IMO:

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Only those who have faith in Jesus Christ and are made a new creation in Him will want to obey Jesus, but out of love, not out of compulsion. Besides, obeying the Gospel simply means believing it:


So--are you saying this isn't obeying God?

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Then again--obeying God, and doing His works, for the forgiveness of sins--is unmerited grace:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How does that compare with a theology which preaches there are no acts of obedience to Jesus Christ, which is necessary in order to receive eternal life?

Very friendly to LDS theology, though.



OK--it's a gift which goes to them which obey God. How does that vindicate the theology pawned here?

It certainly comports to LDS theology.



I agree. And this is an example:

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The question now being--is it necessary to love God--in order to receive eternal life?



Any act of obedience to God--isn't obedience to one's "own works".

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Circular reasoning. Mormonism does that a lot, and it only serves to obscure the truth.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Circular reasoning. Mormonism does that a lot, and it only serves to obscure the truth.
Exactly. IF we must DO something and obey to merit forgiveness of sins, then that isn't grace--God's undeserved favor. Mormons really are "out there." They don't know the true meaning of the word "grace" as the Bible uses it. Also, no one can feel the need to repent of sins unless and until the HS works faith in a person's heart via the Gospel message, as He did at Pentecost and with Paul.

It is like that story I have told on here before, about that factory owner whose factory was polluting a nearby river. The residents downstream didn't like it and tried to get the owner to stop and clean up his factory. He refused. The residents tried legal means, but that failed because the owner's lawyers found loopholes.

Then one day the owner heard the gospel message of Jesus Christ--and believed. The very next day, he shut down his factory, and took steps to clean it up, so it would no longer pollute the river. Why did he do that AFTER he became a believer? Answer: The HS began to work saving faith in the man's heart, while he heard the Gospel message, which meant he began to feel the weight of the law, convicting him of his sin of not loving his downstream neighbors or caring what his factory's pollution did to them and the river. But when he believed, he then realized what he had been doing was wrong, and wasted no time correcting the situation. He had become born again and was made a new creation by the indwelling HS, Who then enabled him to bear good spiritual fruit. He couldn't obey God UNTIL he had come to believe in Jesus Christ and trusted in Him for eternal life, great and free.

Mormons just do NOT understand this. They put the cart in front of the horse. Grace that must be worked for or received on account of what WE do for God isn't true grace, but a wage earned. Earned Grace is what it is. An oxymoronic phrase.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Unless one believes they are regenerated without the Holy Ghost--that claim is unbiblical, IMO:

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

"Support for this view is seen in many passages. Acts 6:7 says that “many of the priests were obedient to the faith.” Romans 10:16 2 Thess 1:8 speak of obeying or disobeying the Gospel. See also, John 3:36; 6:28-29; 1 Pet 1:2, 22; 2:7-8; and Acts 5:32." BELIEVING the Gospel IS obeying it.
So--are you saying this isn't obeying God?

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Please read and digest:

 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Circular reasoning. Mormonism does that a lot, and it only serves to obscure the truth.

Please do explain what there is about the posted scriptures which you believe is "circular reasoning"?


Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
We get off on the wrong foot, and before we know it it has snow balled..

Grace is not mercy. Grace is not forgiveness.

Grace is the following according to Paul.

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect.
No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me."
1 Cor 15:10​

Grace is God's 'enabling' of the believer. God wants us to please Him. God by His Spirit wants to be making us able to be what we are too weak to be in ourselves to be.

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest
on me." 1 Cor 12:9​

Some call 'grace' unmerited favor. Ironically, what grace produces in the naturally weak believer? Is ultimately to make us become what does merit God's favor! God makes us to please Him if we submit to His will.

We were all born fallen and sinful. We could never merit God's favor in our natural state. So, God, by His power of grace, enables us to become in our actions and our behavior what does merit His favor! Grace makes us to become and able to merit God's favor!

Grace is not about forgiveness. Forgiveness is forgiveness. Yet, when He forgives? Its God's grace that does the enabling for us to comprehend and to believe God when He forgives.

God will someday have us in glorious resurrection bodies. Then we will all be righteous by nature. Right now, we can only be declared righteous by God. To discover that righteousness overtly we need His grace enabling us to live righteously by learning truth and believing.

God by His 'grace enabling power' makes us to become what merits His favor! And, that can only take place if we learn sound doctrine on a regular basis, and to be constantly filled with the Spirit who enables us to become transformed into what pleases God.

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed
into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."

2 Cor 3:17-18


Amen...
 
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