The unpardonable sin and TULIP

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Rev Do you believe the righteousness of God is credited to the account Christ died for before they become believers and while unregenerate dead in sins ?
We first and forevermore have the Righteousness of God when we're Justified through Faith in Christ Temporarily. Unconditional Election doesn't Justify us...
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
We first and forevermore have the Righteousness of God when we're Justified through Faith in Christ Temporarily. Unconditional Election doesn't Justify us...
So Rev you dont believe Christs death alone, apart from the doing of the sinner [faith, repentance], caused God to credit to the account righteousness, to them He suffered and died for ?
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Who can commit the unpardonable sin; the elect, non-elect, or both? I presume everyone would argue that only the non-elect can commit it.

If this is the case, why does Christ speak of an unpardonable sin at all? Every sin that a non-elect person commits is, in truth, unpardonable. How could God forgive a sin which Christ has not atoned for?

In Calvinism, there really is no point whatsoever in this teaching of Jesus. Jesus is talking about a particular KIND of sin. In Calvinism, all the "elect's" sins are forgiven and all the non-elect's sins will not be forgiven. Committing a particular KIND of sin has no relevance in Calvinism since it only matters whether one is "elect" or not. If one is "elect" all sins will be forgiven. If one is not "elect" none of their sins are forgiven and committing a particular kind of sin has no relevance to it.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
sg

Who can commit the unpardonable sin; the elect, non-elect, or both? I presume everyone would argue that only the non-elect can commit it.

If this is the case, why does Christ speak of an unpardonable sin at all? Every sin that a non-elect person commits is, in truth, unpardonable. How could God forgive a sin which Christ has not atoned for?

Another possibility is that Christ is speaking of a National Sin that only Israel as a Nation could committ at that time. That nation had been favored with much light, even the very Son of God living among them and doing so many miraculous works that verified His Messiahship, and how even these things He did by the Holy Spirit among them, and they in turned attributed to Him being a beelzebub devil. Some say thats the sin against the Spirit, and Israel as a Nation is unforgiven, though of course there will be some jews saved according to the election of Grace. Im not dogmatic about it.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
So Rev you dont believe Christs death alone, apart from the doing of the sinner [faith, repentance], caused God to credit to the account righteousness, to them He suffered and died for ?
If Christ is not risen, we are most pitiful. Faith Alone is Justification...
 

armylngst

Well-known member
army


Im not sure thats accurate to say Jesus propitiated all sin but not expiate all sin. Can you please go into a little more detail explaining that?
Penal substitutionary atonement. I thought I was clear on that already. Jesus took our place in His death. Our sin was placed on Him, and His righteousness was placed on us. He didn't pick and choose. It was all or nothing.
 

armylngst

Well-known member
Years spent on CARM Forums has a lot to do with my writing skills; you ought to hear me speak in Redneck-ese though. Read my stuff again, but with the voice of Jeff Foxworthy in your head. Also, Southerners have a way of 'picturesque' speaking; like the imagery that Country Musical Lyrics envoke...

When a Born Again Saint sins, the Wrath of God for it falls on Christ and him Crucified; never on us. We always have the Righteousness of God credited to our account. I will write a Gospel Tract this weekend about Federal Headship and Penal Substitutionary Atonement...
I would say the sin falls on us to confess via 1 John 1:9, but we stand righteous because of Jesus and His death on the cross. I always saw it as our sin darkens our relationship with God, but, if we are saved, it does not end our relationship with God. The penalty for our sin was placed on Jesus, while His righteousness was placed upon us. Our sin, as believers, only affects our relationship with God. (He may stop talking to us until we deal with it, for instance.) I was a Baptist, so I am not saying He literally talks to us, but when we seek Him, He may be silent until we deal with our sin.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Penal substitutionary atonement. I thought I was clear on that already. Jesus took our place in His death. Our sin was placed on Him, and His righteousness was placed on us. He didn't pick and choose. It was all or nothing.
So how does this statement tell me the difference you say, between Jesus propitiating all sin, but not expiating all sin. Give details
 

armylngst

Well-known member
So how does this statement tell me the difference you say, between Jesus propitiating all sin, but not expiating all sin. Give details
It doesn't even take expiation into account. All sin is forgiven by Christ. Why do you think we believe that a believer cannot commit the unpardonable sin? If they did, and they can't be pardoned, then they can't be saved, and were never saved in the first place. None of their sins were forgiven.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
army
Our sin, as believers, only affects our relationship with God.

I see it differently, I dont think affects the believers relationship with God, thats through Christ alone, but it certainly affects the believers fellowship with God. David when contemplating his horrible sin or sins said Ps 51 12

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Joy is part of fellowship with God Rom 5 13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

1 Jn 1 4
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
It doesn't even take expiation into account. All sin is forgiven by Christ. Why do you think we believe that a believer cannot commit the unpardonable sin? If they did, and they can't be pardoned, then they can't be saved, and were never saved in the first place. None of their sins were forgiven.
That doesn't explain it. Expiation is connected to propitiation they are practically synonyms.
 
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