The Value of Evangelism in Reform Theology

brightfame52

Well-known member
Here is a rule that will help determine the historical and prophetical context in the psalms. If you are reading about the King, then most likely you are reading of a time when our Lord is prosecuting his office on the earth as King. You will notice in Ps 5 that David says the Lord will destroy them that speak leasing. Since the earthly kingdom of Christ is described by the prophets of Israel as a glorious and peaceful, and as a righteous kingdom and that rebels and unbelievers are destroyed through great tribulation and by the second coming of Jesus Christ before it's institution, it is perfectly reasonable and logical for the psalmist to foresee a kingdom without rebels in it as citizens.

We have this context in Psa 5;

2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.

This is a Psalm of David. He is a prophet and his songs are prophetic.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

History shows that our Lord Jesus occupies 3 offices over the earthly concurrently. He is the perfect prophet, he is the perfect priest, the office he is occupying at the Father's right hand in this very day, and the office of the perfect King, which is future.


Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Hebrews 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Re 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

The Psalms are wonderful.
God still hates the workers of iniquity and so does not love all humanity!
 

JDS

Member
Well lets see

Resurrection is on the last day

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of hall that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who look's on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

Whoever believes on the son is raised up at the last day

It is at the last Trumpet

1 Cor. 15:51–54 —ESV
“Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.””

at Christ's return

1 Cor. 15:22–23 —ESV
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.”

1 Th. 4:15–17 —ESV
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

and the living will be caught up as well at that time


The OT pictures Israel as being the unfaithful wife of Jehovah, not the bride of Christ. Jehovah will divorce his wife and put her away only to restore her when she returns to him in repentance and faith. She is considered dead because she is separated from him. This analogy is given plainly in Hosea where this aspect of God's relationship with Israel is clearly spelled out. This is the physical brush that God has used to paint the spiritual and prophetic picture.

The church of Jesus Christ is not revealed in the OT prophets. It is a hidden truth. It, the church, is not revealed until the apostle Paul is saved and God reveals the church through his letters. It has it's foundation in Jesus Christ and the Jewish remnant of believers during the apostolic era, but it has a gentile character and is pictured as the bride of Christ, taken from his body and presented to him as his wife. The physical brush that paints this picture of a spiritual truth is Adam and Eve.

If one reads chapter 5 of the gospel of John he will discover that Israel has failed to accept Jesus Christ and his mission to her as a nation. However, he has given to Jesus all who will come to him, but not as a nation, but individually. They will be the firstfruits of the Spirit, who he will send back from heaven after he is crucified as the eternal sacrifice for sin and ascended to the Father's throne in heaven.. Later, because of the unbelief of the Jewish nation, we are told the gentiles were accepted in addition to these Jewish believers until the house was filled. So, it is not a nation or a kingdom that is being formed while Israel is divorced from God and buried in the graveyard of the nations, but a family, of which Jesus Christ is the head.

The resurrection of these believers is not the same resurrection of the nation Israel and does not happen at the same time as the glorification of the body of Christ, the church.

Here is a prophecy of the resurrection of Israel as a nation in a chapter where they are currently a generation f unbelievers.

The contrast of what I am posting next is between the remnant of Israel, the believers in Christ, and the nation who rejected him at his first coming.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them (Israel) be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Life from the dead is a resurrection.

The scriptures have context that your religion cause you to totally miss. John 6 does not prove a general resurrection and it says nothing about one.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The OT pictures Israel as being the unfaithful wife of Jehovah, not the bride of Christ. Jehovah will divorce his wife and put her away only to restore her when she returns to him in repentance and faith. She is considered dead because she is separated from him. This analogy is given plainly in Hosea where this aspect of God's relationship with Israel is clearly spelled out. This is the physical brush that God has used to paint the spiritual and prophetic picture.

The church of Jesus Christ is not revealed in the OT prophets. It is a hidden truth. It, the church, is not revealed until the apostle Paul is saved and God reveals the church through his letters. It has it's foundation in Jesus Christ and the Jewish remnant of believers during the apostolic era, but it has a gentile character and is pictured as the bride of Christ, taken from his body and presented to him as his wife. The physical brush that paints this picture of a spiritual truth is Adam and Eve.

If one reads chapter 5 of the gospel of John he will discover that Israel has failed to accept Jesus Christ and his mission to her as a nation. However, he has given to Jesus all who will come to him, but not as a nation, but individually. They will be the firstfruits of the Spirit, who he will send back from heaven after he is crucified as the eternal sacrifice for sin and ascended to the Father's throne in heaven.. Later, because of the unbelief of the Jewish nation, we are told the gentiles were accepted in addition to these Jewish believers until the house was filled. So, it is not a nation or a kingdom that is being formed while Israel is divorced from God and buried in the graveyard of the nations, but a family, of which Jesus Christ is the head.

The resurrection of these believers is not the same resurrection of the nation Israel and does not happen at the same time as the glorification of the body of Christ, the church.

Here is a prophecy of the resurrection of Israel as a nation in a chapter where they are currently a generation f unbelievers.

The contrast of what I am posting next is between the remnant of Israel, the believers in Christ, and the nation who rejected him at his first coming.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them (Israel) be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Life from the dead is a resurrection.

The scriptures have context that your religion cause you to totally miss. John 6 does not prove a general resurrection and it says nothing about one.
I do not see that you have actually addressed what was written

First it did not depend wholly on John 6 and the fact all are not regenerated at the last day can only indicate physical resurrection is in view

Resurrection is on the last day

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of hall that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who look's on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

Whoever believes on the son is raised up at the last day

Judgment is also at the last day

John 12:48 —ESV
“The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.”

It is at the last Trumpet

1 Cor. 15:51–54 —ESV
“Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.””

at Christ's return

1 Cor. 15:22–23 —ESV
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.”

1 Th. 4:15–17 —ESV
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

and the living will be caught up as well at that time

As noted you have not produced any evidence which is capable of setting aside a belief in a universal resurrection on the last day when Christ returns
 

David1701

New member
You've left out at least one very important step. A step that Paul explicitly required.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Where would you incorporate this verse into your list?
I've left out many things. It was not supposed to be comprehensive, just a brief summary.

The parts of the verse would fit in as follows.

Hear the gospel preached, born again, believe in the Lord, call on the Lord, etc.
 

David1701

New member
I assume nothing! ἑνὸς ἑκάστου ἡμῶν means "each one of us", which can only mean every single one of us, us meaning all human beings, because Paul is not referring to only believers in context, but each one, each member of the human race!
Well done. :rolleyes: Now perhaps you can deal with the part that involved your interpretation, rather than the obvious part that everyone agrees on.

And God loves the world, which means the whole of mankind, by sending his only Son to all of mankind, so that whoever of all mankind believes in the given Son, will not perish but have everlasting life.


Doug
So; who believes in Jesus Christ, apart from the elect, to whom God gives faith? No-one.
 

David1701

New member
By giving his son for the world

John 3:16 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

John 6:51 —KJV
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
Only the elect, to whom God gives repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, believe in Him.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Only the elect, to whom God gives repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, believe in Him.
The term elect does not appear in either verse

John 3:16 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

John 6:51 —KJV
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

World does

And the parallel passage to Jn 3:17

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”

shows world cannot carry such a meaning
 

TibiasDad

Member
The term elect does not appear in either verse

John 3:16 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

John 6:51 —KJV
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

World does

And the parallel passage to Jn 3:17

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”

shows world cannot carry such a meaning
Add to this the circular assumption that Elect means the Calvinistic rendition of Elect. That there are predetermined Elect ones that are revealed by belief, rather than those who become Elect because they believe!

Doug
 

JDS

Member
I do not see that you have actually addressed what was written

First it did not depend wholly on John 6 and the fact all are not regenerated at the last day can only indicate physical resurrection is in view

Resurrection is on the last day

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of hall that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who look's on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

Whoever believes on the son is raised up at the last day

Judgment is also at the last day

John 12:48 —ESV
“The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.”

It is at the last Trumpet

1 Cor. 15:51–54 —ESV
“Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.””

at Christ's return

1 Cor. 15:22–23 —ESV
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.”

1 Th. 4:15–17 —ESV
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

and the living will be caught up as well at that time

As noted you have not produced any evidence which is capable of setting aside a belief in a universal resurrection on the last day when Christ returns

You are no different than Calvinists when you practice mining the scriptures in search of key words and making applications without context and without considering the words that are said and to whom they are said. You just have different presuppositions and conclusions that you insist the texts support.
_________________
The scriptures say these two or three things about the OT scriptures;

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Matt 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
________________


Therefore the NT program is written in the OT types and figures and similitudes.
________________

Hosea 12:10
I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
_______________

Therefore, the phrase, "the last day" does not have to mean the last day of the world where everyone is resurrected at the same time, and it doesn't. You read that into the texts of Jn 6. This is a common practice for someone who thinks as you do. This phrase is unique to John in the NT and is used by him in seven times in his gospel account of the ministry and person of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Four times in John 6, and once in Jn 7, Jn 11, and Jn 12. It is used once in the OT in Nehemiah 8 and it's use there is very instructive considering the fact that it referenced after Cyrus had ordered that all Jews could return to their land and they met together as one at the feast of tabernacles.
__________________

Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.
__________________________

It is also used in the context of the feast of tabernacles in John 7. Here, you may read it for yourself;

Jn 7:2 Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand.

10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.


The feast of tabernacles was 7 days long, and then a festival of joy. It is what happened in Nehemiah where we have a physical brush painting a spiritual picture. Notice what is happening on the last day of the feast for Israel.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)

________________
Martha had this last day in mind, not the same last day that you have in mind. This is the salvation of the nation of Israel in her own land and under Messiah as King of the Jews. It is not the same phase as the resurrection spoken by Paul the apostle to the gentiles in those verses you quoted. You believe they are one and the same because you are not curios about the words that describes this resurrection. This resurrection is about two things; those who are "in Christ" and 2) this aspect of the resurrection is a mystery. A mystery is a new revelation of a truth and a purpose that is in the eternal counsel of the Godhead but is hidden until the Spirit reveals it and cannot be known from the OT scriptures alone. There are 7 mysteries concerning this age that God reveals to his apostles and prophets, but the mystery of Christ, which is the church consisting of both Jew and gentile, and built upon the person of Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection, and upon the apostles and prophets, their eye witness testimony, and in completion is an eternal temple of the Spirit of God is given exclusively to Paul and he makes it known unto us today in his 13 letters he has written to gentiles.

When you quote 1 Cor 15:51-54, 1 Cor 15:22-23, and 1 Thess 4:15-17 in the same context as the last day of the gospel of John I know that you know little to nothing about the mysteries of God or the 7 feast of Israel. The resurrection Paul is dealing with is concerned with trumpets. Two trumpets were given to Israel in the wilderness. One was used to called Israel to assemble, the second was used to call them to march. They were distinct from one another. The next feast on the calendar for Israel is the feast of trumpets. When this happens then will come to pass this statement:
____________________

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
_______________


Things will move quickly to completion when this occurs and we are almost there in prophecy. Every word of God is important and none of them is to be ignored. Here is one of the three prayers of the apostle Paul for us gentiles, who by God's grace have been included in the spiritual blessings of Israel, a prayer that he has not seemed to answer this last days generation of Christendom.

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
(of course most you fellows are too smart to believe there will be an age after this one)
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
You are no different than Calvinists when you practice mining the scriptures in search of key words and making applications without context and considering the words that are said and to whom they are said. You just have different presuppositions and conclusions that you insist the texts support.
_________________
The scriptures say these two or three things about the OT scriptures;

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Matt 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
________________


Therefore the NT program is written in the OT types and figures and similitudes.
________________

Hosea 12:10
I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
_______________

Therefore, the phrase, "the last day" does not have to mean the last day of the world where everyone is resurrected at the same time, and it doesn't. You read that into the texts of Jn 6. This is a common practice for someone who thinks as you do. This phrase is unique to John in the NT and is used by him in seven times in his gospel account of the ministry and person of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Four times in John 6, and once in Jn 7, Jn 11, and Jn 12. It is used once in the OT in Nehemiah 8 and it's use there is very instructive considering the fact that it referenced after Cyrus had ordered that all Jews could return to their land and they met together as one at the feast of tabernacles.
__________________

Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.
__________________________

It is also used in the context of the feast of tabernacles in John 7. Here, you may read it for yourself;

Jn 7:2 Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand.

10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.


The feast of tabernacles was 7 days long, and then a festival of joy. It is what happened in Nehemiah where we have a physical brush painting a spiritual picture. Notice what is happening on the last day of the feast for Israel.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)

________________
Martha had this last day in mind, not the same last day that you have in mind. This is the salvation of the nation of Israel in her own land and under Messiah as King of the Jews. It is not the same phase as the resurrection spoken by Paul the apostle to the gentiles in those verses you quoted. You believe they are one and the same because you are not curios about the words that describes this resurrection. This resurrection is about two things; those who are "in Christ" and 2) this aspect of the resurrection is a mystery. A mystery is a new revelation of a truth and a purpose that is in the eternal counsel of the Godhead but is hidden until the Spirit reveals it and cannot be known from the OT scriptures alone. There are 7 mysteries concerning this age that God reveals to his apostles and prophets, but the mystery of Christ, which is the church consisting of both Jew and gentile, and built upon the person of Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection, and upon the apostles and prophets, their eye witness testimony, and in completion is an eternal temple of the Spirit of God is given exclusively to Paul and he makes it known unto us today in his 13 letters he has written to gentiles.

When you quote 1 Cor 15:51-54, 1 Cor 15:22-23, and 1 Thess 4:15-17 in the same context as the last day of the gospel of John I know that you know little to nothing about the mysteries of God or the 7 feast of Israel. The resurrection Paul is dealing with is concerned with trumpets. Two trumpets were given to Israel in the wilderness. One was used to called Israel to assemble, the second was used to call them to march. They were distinct from one another. The next feast on the calendar for Israel is the feast of trumpets. When this happens then will come to pass this statement:
____________________

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
_______________


Things will move quickly to completion when this occurs and we are almost there in prophecy. Every word of God is important and none of them is to be ignored. Here is one of the three prayers of the apostle Paul for us gentiles, who by God's grace have been included in the spiritual blessings of Israel, a prayer that he has not seemed to answer this last days generation of Christendom.

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
(of course most you fellows are too smart to believe there will be an age after this one)
Where have you address any of the scriptures showing resurrection is at the last day when Jesus returns ?

Resurrection is on the last day

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of hall that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who look's on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

Whoever believes on the son is raised up at the last day

That means all who will believe on him are resurrected at the last day

Feasts do nothing to turn that aside

Judgment is also at the last day

John 12:48 —ESV
“The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.”

It is at the last Trumpet

1 Cor. 15:51–54 —ESV
“Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.””

at Christ's return

1 Cor. 15:22–23 —ESV
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.”

1 Th. 4:15–17 —ESV
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

and the living will be caught up as well at that time

As noted you have not produced any evidence which is capable of setting aside a belief in a universal resurrection on the last day when Christ returns
 

JDS

Member
As noted you have not produced any evidence which is capable of setting aside a belief in a universal resurrection on the last day when Christ returns

As noted you have not produced any evidence which is capable of setting aside a belief in a universal resurrection on the last day when Christ returns

So says you. Your universalism sets aside 2000 years of prophetic promises of salvation and eternal earthly glory for a single elect people and nation with whom God made covenants and through whom he has written his revelation of himself and reveled his purpose and by whom he has offered salvation to the nations.

Consider this wonderful and magnificent Psalm that incorporates the feasts of trumpets and the feast of tabernacles in it.

Psa 47:1 O clap your hands, all ye people; (the people is always a reference to God's people Israel) shout unto God with the voice of triumph.
2 For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
3 He shall subdue the people under us, and the nations under our feet.
4 He shall choose our inheritance for us, the excellency of Jacob whom he loved. Selah.

5 God is gone up with a shout, the LORD with the sound of a trumpet.
6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.

7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.
8 God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.
9 The princes of the people are gathered together, even the people of the God of Abraham: for the shields of the earth belong unto God: he is greatly exalted.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
As noted you have not produced any evidence which is capable of setting aside a belief in a universal resurrection on the last day when Christ returns

So says you. Your universalism sets aside 2000 years of prophetic promises of salvation and eternal earthly glory for a single elect people and nation with whom God made covenants and through whom he has written his revelation of himself and reveled his purpose and by whom he has offered salvation to the nations.

Consider this wonderful and magnificent Psalm that incorporates the feasts of trumpets and the feast of tabernacles in it.

Psa 47:1 O clap your hands, all ye people; (the people is always a reference to God's people Israel) shout unto God with the voice of triumph.
2 For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
3 He shall subdue the people under us, and the nations under our feet.
4 He shall choose our inheritance for us, the excellency of Jacob whom he loved. Selah.

5 God is gone up with a shout, the LORD with the sound of a trumpet.
6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.

7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.
8 God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.
9 The princes of the people are gathered together, even the people of the God of Abraham: for the shields of the earth belong unto God: he is greatly exalted.
Scripture

Where have you address any of the scriptures showing resurrection is at the last day when Jesus returns ?

Resurrection is on the last day

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of hall that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who look's on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

Whoever believes on the son is raised up at the last day

That means all who will believe on him are resurrected at the last day

Feasts do nothing to turn that aside

Judgment is also at the last day

John 12:48 —ESV
“The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.”

It is at the last Trumpet

1 Cor. 15:51–54 —ESV
“Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.””

at Christ's return

1 Cor. 15:22–23 —ESV
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.”

1 Th. 4:15–17 —ESV
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

and the living will be caught up as well at that time

As noted you have not produced any evidence which is capable of setting aside a belief in a universal resurrection on the last day when Christ returns


where have you actually addressed it

speaking of feast days which do not even mention the resurrection does not do it
 

zerinus

Active member
It is not necessarily true that God loves everyone.
The Bible says, "God so loved the world ..." "The world" includes everyone.
Read Psalm 5:5; 11:5.
Those are nuanced expressions. Ezekiel tells us that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that they should turn away from their sins and be saved. That contradicts your reading of those verses.
Furthermore, given the verses in Psalms, you don't know if God loves anybody that you are speaking with.
According to Ezekiel, he loves them enough to want them to repent of their sins and be saved.
Finally, I witness a great deal and I simply say Jesus died for sinners.
All sinners, or only some sinners? If he died only for some sinners, and you are pretending, or falsely telling them that he died for all, you are being dishonest and hypocritical, which God is not, nor wants us to be. Furthermore, when Ezekiel says that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but would rather that they repent and be saved, that can only apply to all the wicked, not just some.
I tell them that they need to repent and believe in Christ.
If they are not among the "elect," that would be a false statement, because no amount of faith and repentance would save them.
All of the statements are true.
I think I have demonstrated why they are not.
If, in God's great mercy, he opens their mind to understand the truth and receive Christ (Acts 16:14), then they will be justified by faith... Same as anyone who trusts in Christ.
Unless they are "reprobate," in which case they are out of luck!
 

JDS

Member
Scripture

Where have you address any of the scriptures showing resurrection is at the last day when Jesus returns ?

Resurrection is on the last day

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of hall that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who look's on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

Whoever believes on the son is raised up at the last day

That means all who will believe on him are resurrected at the last day

Feasts do nothing to turn that aside

Judgment is also at the last day

John 12:48 —ESV
“The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.”

It is at the last Trumpet

1 Cor. 15:51–54 —ESV
“Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.””

at Christ's return

1 Cor. 15:22–23 —ESV
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.”

1 Th. 4:15–17 —ESV
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

and the living will be caught up as well at that time

As noted you have not produced any evidence which is capable of setting aside a belief in a universal resurrection on the last day when Christ returns


where have you actually addressed it

speaking of feast days which do not even mention the resurrection does not do it
You have not established that the last day is the last day of time. The verses you quoted from 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 does not say anything about the last day. They say something about the last trump. In 1 Thess it is not the trumpet of an angel but the trump of God. Those verses say that the body will be changed and those who are "in Christ" will be raised from the dead and will be taken to heaven with Christ. In John 6, 7, 11, and 12, Christ is coming at "the last day" and nothing is said about a trumpet. However, the next feast day on God's calendar of events is the feast of trumpets. Martha knew about the last day because she was a Jew and for 1500 years the Jews had been teaching and observing the feast days and the festivals of Israel. Her last day understanding was in a different context than Paul's trumpet teaching of Christ's coming. Paul was writing to gentiles and the church of Jesus Christ in the context of revealing a "mystery of God." If Martha already knew about it then it was not a mystery.

Behold, Paul said to the church, I show you, the church, a mystery. I have already showed you what a mystery is in the scriptures. Here is what Jesus said about this age in Matt 13, after the Jews had rejected him as the son of God and as their Messiah in Matt 12 and in the context of the unpardonable sin.

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

These 72 disciples will have to explain them to us if we are to understand them. It was those of this group who wrote the NT scriptures. Because of the rejection of the Jews of the kingdom of God that Jesus and his disciples had been preaching over the 3 1/2 years of his earthly ministry, there will be a time that will unfold called the kingdom of heaven that is not revealed in the OT. It is called the mystery form of the kingdom and the King is not physically present. In Matt 13 Jesus gave the entire scope of this mystery kingdom in 7 parables. The foundational parable, the first, describes it as a sower who sowed seed, The word of God, in his field, the whole world, but divided into four sections, the same that was the actual and historical spread of the gospel in Acts. Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the world. The seed, the wayside, Jerusalem, no growth,, the stony places, Judea, a little growth, the thorny ground, somewhat better, Samaria, the good ground, the world of the gentiles from which comes a great harvest. The end of this harvest of the crop is described this way and the mystery form of the kingdom is ended.

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (age); and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.(age)

When the scriptures uses the word children they indicate a birth. In this mystery age one must be born again. The fire here is the tribulation fires that will destroy all things that offend God. It is a theme of judgment recorded down through the years by the prophets called "the day of the Lord."

Because of the above, I conclude that the last day concerning the Jewish context is the last day of the kingdom of heaven in it's mystery form when Jesus comes to the earth. The last day of the age. The final and last feast of the season after the harvest has been gathered into barns. The OT saints will be raised from the dead at that time.

I'm going to a lot of trouble to establish the truth I am telling you. whether you accept it is up to you, but one thing is sure, your doctrine is unreasonable, illogical, and untrue and discounts the entire OT law and prophets of God and what they say. One more word concerning the mysteries of God concerning gentiles, a people group who are not Jews and never had a relationship with God until Jesus rose from the dead.

1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

1 Cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge;


Eph 3: For this cause (the forming of the temple of the Spirit, see chapter 2) I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

his promise = the indwelling Spirit - salvation
in Christ = in the body of the risen Christ
by the gospel = The preaching of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ

I am going to believe the words I read and I will be curious enough to study them out until I understand them. I am not going to discard 39 books in the scriptures and think history began with me as some seem to do.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You have not established that the last day is the last day of time. The verses you quoted from 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 does not say anything about the last day. They say something about the last trump. In 1 Thess it is not the trumpet of an angel but the trump of God. Those verses say that the body will be changed and those who are "in Christ" will be raised from the dead and will be taken to heaven with Christ. In John 6, 7, 11, and 12, Christ is coming at "the last day" and nothing is said about a trumpet.
Try again

If all are resurrected at the last day

and are resurrection at Christs advent

they both are the same day

Equally judgment is at the last

John 12:48 —ESV
“The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.”

Judgment is at Christ's advent

Matt. 25:31–46 —ESV
“¶ “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
¶ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””

Jude 1:14–15 —KJV
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
¶ To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

2 Th. 1:6–10 —ESV
“since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you,
and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels
in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.”

Jude 1:14–15 —ESV
“¶ It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,
to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.””

So the righteous living will be resurrected or raptured

The wicked Judged at the last day and all go to either eternal life or eternal punishment

that also marks the end of this old earth

2 Pet. 3:7 —ESV
“But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”

2 Pet. 3:9–13 —KJV
Ҧ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
¶ Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

Better forget above reading multiple resurrections into Jewish feast days and believe the new testament
 

civic

Active member
Try again

If all are resurrected at the last day

and are resurrection at Christs advent

they both are the same day

Equally judgment is at the last

John 12:48 —ESV
“The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.”

Judgment is at Christ's advent

Matt. 25:31–46 —ESV
“¶ “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
¶ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””

Jude 1:14–15 —KJV
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
¶ To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

2 Th. 1:6–10 —ESV
“since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you,
and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels
in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.”

Jude 1:14–15 —ESV
“¶ It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,
to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.””

So the righteous living will be resurrected or raptured

The wicked Judged at the last day and all go to either eternal life or eternal punishment

that also marks the end of this old earth

2 Pet. 3:7 —ESV
“But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”

2 Pet. 3:9–13 —KJV
Ҧ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
¶ Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

Better forget above reading multiple resurrections into Jewish feast days and believe the new testament
Its the old anglo Israelism gene scott use to teach the same heresy. I watch him in the 80's I'm ashamed to admit but I learned to search the scripture like the bereans to see if those things were true. I wouldn't be surprised if jds believes in numerology the hidden message via numbers in scripture and pyramidology as well.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Its the old anglo Israelism gene scott use to teach the same heresy. I watch him in the 80's I'm ashamed to admit but I learned to search the scripture like the bereans to see if those things were true. I wouldn't be surprised if jds believes in numerology the hidden message via numbers in scripture and pyramidology as well.
Could be. In any case it is some esoteric paradigm he applies to the scripture
 
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