The Value of Evangelism in Reform Theology

Theo1689

Well-known member
Exactly, especially qualifies who Jesus is a Saviour to, believers, the sheep or those who had been ordained to eternal life Acts13:48

Not to mention that John 3:16 specifically teaches the exact same thing, for anyone who would bother to read it:

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Summarizing, "God gives believers eternal life BECAUSE He loves "the world" in this particular way.

So if you make "world" and "believers" refer to two different groups, you make nonsense of the passage.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not to mention that John 3:16 specifically teaches the exact same thing, for anyone who would bother to read it:

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Summarizing, "God gives believers eternal life BECAUSE He loves "the world" in this particular way.

So if you make "world" and "believers" refer to two different groups, you make nonsense of the passage.
I like that. The world of believers He so Loved !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I showed you Sheep enough!
You mean you ignored what was stated and just added in sheep

The scripture does not say sheep

Sheep was not the definition given by the lexicon

He saves all who believe having given his life for all

John 3:16 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

and John's use of world precludes such limitation

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You mean you ignored what was stated and just added in sheep

The scripture does not say sheep

Sheep was not the definition given by the lexicon

He saves all who believe having given his life for all

John 3:16 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

and John's use of world precludes such limitation

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
You want to see it again ? Who did the Shepherd specifically state e was laying down His Life for Jn 10:15

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You want to see it again ? Who did the Shepherd specifically state e was laying down His Life for Jn 10:15

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And again the word alone does not appear in the passage


brightfame52

Well-known member​

TomFL said:
You mean you ignored what was stated and just added in sheep

The scripture does not say sheep

Sheep was not the definition given by the lexicon

He saves all who believe having given his life for all

John 3:16 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

and John's use of world precludes such limitation

John 12:47 —KJV
“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Again the word alone does not appear in that passage
The other specific of exactly who Christ gave Himself for Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish

Now who does Paul say specifically that Christ died for here in this passage ? Read it very carefully plese !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The other specific of exactly who Christ gave Himself for Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish

Now who does Paul say specifically that Christ died for here in this passage ? Read it very carefully plese !
And the word alone does not appear there either

2 Pet. 2:1 —CSB17
“¶ There were indeed false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
And the word alone does not appear there either

2 Pet. 2:1 —CSB17
“¶ There were indeed false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.”
You dont go by what scripture doesnt say, but by what it specifically states. Who did Christ die for specifically in Eph 5 25-27
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You dont go by what scripture doesnt say, but by what it specifically states. Who did Christ die for specifically in Eph 5 25-27
Indeed

2 Pet. 2:1 —CSB17
“¶ There were indeed false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.”

but you ignore it
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Indeed

2 Pet. 2:1 —CSB17
“¶ There were indeed false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.”

but you ignore it
So

Who did Christ die for specifically in Eph 5 25-27
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So

Who did Christ die for specifically in Eph 5 25-27
Who did he die for here

Gal. 2:20 —CSB17
“I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”

here

Heb. 2:9 —KJV
“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”

here

1 Tim. 2:1–6 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Who did he die for here

Gal. 2:20 —CSB17
“I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”

here

Heb. 2:9 —KJV
“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”

here

1 Tim. 2:1–6 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
The same ones He died for here Eph 5 25-27 and here Jn 10 11 15
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Who did he die for here

Gal. 2:20 —CSB17
“I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”

here

Heb. 2:9 —KJV
“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”

here

1 Tim. 2:1–6 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

The error you are making here is that you are ASSUMING that those passages answer the question of, "Please identify exactly who Christ died for" when that's not the question they're answering.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The error you are making here is that you are ASSUMING that those passages answer the question of, "Please identify exactly who Christ died for" when that's not the question they're answering.

Rather you reject scripture

John 3:16 —KJV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

1 Tim. 2:1–6 —KJV
Ҧ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

Heb. 2:9 —KJV
“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”

John 6:51 (KJV 1900)
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900)
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Isaiah 53:6 (KJV 1900)
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned every one to his own way;
And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
 
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