Theo1689
Well-known member
You are 100% wrong.
It 100% does.
You're not paying attention.
You asked me about me.
And then you took my response, and dishonestly applied it to God.
I am not God.
Yes, and it proves your theology false.
The Value of Evangelism in Reform Theology
- Thread starter TibiasDad
- Start date
You are 100% wrong.
It 100% does.
You're not paying attention.
You asked me about me.
And then you took my response, and dishonestly applied it to God.
I am not God.
Yes, and it proves your theology false.
Theo1689
Well-known member
How so?
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
i.e GIFTED by God, which is what Eph 2:8,9 says.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον] i.e. Θεοῦ δῶρον τὸ δῶρον, God’s gift is the gift in question (namely, the σεσωσμένον εἶναι) (Meyer) Salvation is the gracious gift of God, it is not gained or merited by the deeds of our own efforts, but rather by faith through which God grants access to his gracious gift of salvation. The gift is not faith itself, but salvation!
Doug
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Word games. No FAITH = no salvation. "Grace" (unmerited favor) is why God gives you the chance to Born Again, even though you don't deserve it in any way.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Nothing Meyer or I said contradicts this! "The gift of God", according to Paul, "is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." The gift is the same in Ephesians 2:8. We access this gift through faith, not by works, not out of ourselves.
Doug
That is not what Calvinism holds
and that is not what Eph 2:8 states
granted fits, irresistible grace does not
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
"Calvinism holds" all sorts of concepts according to its paradigm. Some are accurate, and some aren't.
IN YOUR OPINION. I see it differently.
"Irresistable Grace" is "Just another" Calvinist buzz term. Nothing more. It's only "Theology" after all.
It shows men capable of believing
Well you see it wrong
Salvation is the gift as scripture shows
Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There are no bible verses which state saving faith is a gift given to some and with-held from others
and none of these make sense is faith is a gift either irresistibly given or with-held
Men were hardened to prevent belief
John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”
had men not hardened themselves they could have believed
Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”
fourth Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding
Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”
Were faith such a gift it would not be possible men could believe temporarily or that anything could interfere with that faith
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Sorry but Salvation is "A" gift. there are many "gifts", and as Eph 2:8,9 makes clear, the FAITH to enter into salvation is also a gift.
NOW - what are you going to do with John 6:44??
read it in context
John 6:45 (KJV 1900) — 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
revelation is needed
John 8:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Those of God hear God's word and come to Jesus
John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5:36–40 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
what did you do with my objection?
Men were hardened to prevent belief
John 12:40 —KJV
“He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”
had men not hardened themselves they could have believed
Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”
fourth Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding
Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”
Were faith such a gift it would not be possible men could believe temporarily or that anything could interfere with that faith