The Wicked People of the Earth

[Janice Bower]

Those who profess to follow Christ or the prophets but willfully reject [Mormonism] (the will inherit gospel, the testimony of Jesus, the prophets, and the everlasting covenant will inherit the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:99-101).

The inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will include those who were murderers, liars, adulterers, and whoremongers --- in general the wicked people of the earth (see D&C 76:103; Revelation 22:15).

These inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will have become clean through their suffering so that they can abide telestial glory.

Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual - Chapter 33 - Kingdoms of Glory and Perdition

How does a person become clean according to Neil L. Andersen?

"As we leave wrongdoing behind and exercise faith in Jesus Christ, we receive a remission of our sins. We sense that our savior is doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves."
Neil L. Andersen, "The Joy of becoming Clean," Ensign, April 1995, p. 51

"Yea, verily I say unto you, if ye will come unto me ye shall have eternal life. Behold, mine arm of mercy is extended towards you, and whosoever will come, him will I receive; and blessed are those who come unto me" (3 Nephi 9:13-14).

Questions:

1. Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual says that suffering makes you clean. If you are clean why do you go to the lowest kingdom of glory?

2. 3 Nephi 9:13-14 tells you that you will have eternal life if you will come unto Christ. There is nothing about keeping laws and ordinances and temple marriages. Why not?

3. The wicked go to a "kingdom of glory" because they became clean by suffering. If they are clean why won't they be with God? How does suffering make them clean?

4. Why are people baptized and confirmed without being told the requirements for eternal life?

 

[Janice Bower]

BIBLE

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,



MORMONISM
Doctrine and Covenants 76

98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;

99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.

100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;

101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud.

103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth.

105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;

107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press falone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.

108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever.

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

 

[brotherofJared]

Those who profess to follow Christ or the prophets but willfully reject [Mormonism] (the will inherit gospel, the testimony of Jesus, the prophets, and the everlasting covenant will inherit the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:99-101).

Let's get it right and put aside your animus:

1. Those who profess to follow Christ or the prophets but willfully reject the gospel, the testimony of Jesus, the prophets, and the everlasting covenant will inherit the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:99–101).

I don't know where you get the idea that it only applies to "Mormonism"

The inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will include those who were murderers, liars, adulterers, and whoremongers --- in general the wicked people of the earth (see D&C 76:103; Revelation 22:15).

These inhabitants, nevertheless, have, by the time they inherit that kingdom, paid for their sins themselves and not received forgiveness because they rejected the source of that forgiveness.

These inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will have become clean through their suffering so that they can abide telestial glory.

That makes sense, IMO.

How does a person become clean according to Neil L. Andersen?

"As we leave wrongdoing behind and exercise faith in Jesus Christ, we receive a remission of our sins. We sense that our savior is doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves."
Neil L. Andersen, "The Joy of becoming Clean," Ensign, April 1995, p. 51

That makes sense too. Why on earth would anyone think that they could be clean if they keep murdering people or keep committing adultery, or stealing other people's belongings?

1. Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual says that suffering makes you clean. If you are clean why do you go to the lowest kingdom of glory?

answer: because those who inherit that kingdom reject Christ and the gospel. Rejecting Christ is not the reason they receive punishment. It is for their wickedness that they are punished. If you actually read the passage referenced in D&C 76:99-101, these are not all bad people. Paul taught good things, and those that will dwell there are those who rejected Christ, but accepted Paul. Every person listed in verse 100 are good people, even those that accept the teachings of Christ, but reject Christ. I'm not in a position to say who those people are. One might ask the question, how can one accept Christ and yet also reject Him (I think in a nutshell, that is the claim you all make when you claim we worship a different Christ from the one in the Bible). It adds in the next verse, "But received not the gospel", which I take to mean, rejected his teachings - didn't keep the laws and ordinances of the gospel. IOW, those who refused Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost, for starters. But I think it goes further than that, to apply to those who judged others unjustly. The hypocrites would be the class of people I'd say this applies to.

2. 3 Nephi 9:13-14 tells you that you will have eternal life if you will come unto Christ. There is nothing about keeping laws and ordinances and temple marriages. Why not?

The question that begs to ask is, what does it mean to "come unto [Christ]"? I highlighted the previous paragraph that I think applies to this question... What does it mean to receive the gospel? What is the gospel or the laws and ordinances of the gospel. Jesus made it clear that no one can enter the kingdom of God without the Baptism of both water and the spirit. We teach that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are first, faith then repentance, then baptism and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those who have authority. All of that is encompassed in 3 Nephi 9:13-14 "return unto me" - have faith, "repent of your sins" - repent, "come unto me" - be baptized of water and the spirit. But the ultimate call of the gospel is to follow Christ and do his work.

3. The wicked go to a "kingdom of glory" because they became clean by suffering.

Sure, that's how the wicked get there, but it's not the only people who will be there.

If they are clean why won't they be with God?

Because they rejected God and Jesus Christ. That's how you get there. You don't get there by being wicked.

How does suffering make them clean?

I suppose the same way that Christ's suffering made you clean (or is the basis that you all claim to be clean). Someone has to pay for their sins. I can either be you or Christ. Continuing in sin is simply an indication that, regardless of what one claims, they haven't received nor have they come to Christ. It was only lip service.

4. Why are people baptized and confirmed without being told the requirements for eternal life?

No one is baptized without being told the "requirements". NO ONE.

 

[brotherofJared]

BIBLE

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

That's what we teach.

Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Yep. Nice that you point that out even though most Christian religions could careless about what one does.

 

[Richard7]

Those who profess to follow Christ or the prophets but willfully reject [Mormonism] (the will inherit gospel, the testimony of Jesus, the prophets, and the everlasting covenant will inherit the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:99-101).

The inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will include those who were murderers, liars, adulterers, and whoremongers --- in general the wicked people of the earth (see D&C 76:103; Revelation 22:15).

These inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will have become clean through their suffering so that they can abide telestial glory.

Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual - Chapter 33 - Kingdoms of Glory and Perdition

How does a person become clean according to Neil L. Andersen?

"As we leave wrongdoing behind and exercise faith in Jesus Christ, we receive a remission of our sins. We sense that our savior is doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves."
Neil L. Andersen, "The Joy of becoming Clean," Ensign, April 1995, p. 51

"Yea, verily I say unto you, if ye will come unto me ye shall have eternal life. Behold, mine arm of mercy is extended towards you, and whosoever will come, him will I receive; and blessed are those who come unto me" (3 Nephi 9:13-14).

Questions:

1. Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual says that suffering makes you clean. If you are clean why do you go to the lowest kingdom of glory?

2. 3 Nephi 9:13-14 tells you that you will have eternal life if you will come unto Christ. There is nothing about keeping laws and ordinances and temple marriages. Why not?

3. The wicked go to a "kingdom of glory" because they became clean by suffering. If they are clean why won't they be with God? How does suffering make them clean?

4. Why are people baptized and confirmed without being told the requirements for eternal life?

David was a murder and a adulter, is he saved and if so how?

 

[Janice Bower]

David was a murder and a adulter, is he saved and if so how?

I doubt that he was a Mormon. But since you are, ask your prophet.

 

[brotherofJared]

I doubt that he was a Mormon. But since you are, ask your prophet.

That's a none answer. Does that mean you don't know or did you step in over your head?

 

[dberrie2020]

BIBLE

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,



MORMONISM
Doctrine and Covenants 76

98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;

99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.

100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;

101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud.

103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth.

105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;

107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press falone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.

108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever.

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

Could you explain for us how those two comparisons differ in content?