There are three central reasons people reject God—which ones are yours: survey says

SteveB

Well-known member
My bias? No, your bias. Your post #73, the one I was relying to, said:
Yep. Your bias.

Pity you don't actually bother reading.

No bias on my end. Simply what the bible says.
It's been there for at least 1930 years.
So, where have you been?

Heb 11:6 WEB Without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to him, for he who comes to God must believe that he exists, and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him.

How could the Native Americans believe in the Christian God before the arrival of the first Christian missionaries?
It's pretty clear in Romans 1, Psalm 19, and Romans 2.

God has explicitly made it clear that everyone who wants to know can know.

You should take the time to read the bible for the purpose of understanding.



How could the Australian Aborigines believe in the Christian God before the arrival of the first Christian missionaries?
See above.


You are the one setting boundaries for your God.
Not me. The bible is quite clear about this.
This however would require you to learn.


You are saying that for thousands of years, millions of people were barred from pleasing your God because Christian missionaries had not reached them yet.
Nope.
Read.
Rom 2:11-16 WEB 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without the law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it isn’t the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified 14 (for when Gentiles who don’t have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my Good News, by Jesus Christ.

Rom 1:19-21 WEB 19 because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. 21 Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened.

Psa 19:1-4 WEB 1 The heavens declare the glory of God. The expanse shows his handiwork. 2 Day after day they pour out speech, and night after night they display knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their voice has gone out through all the earth, their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,

God has explicitly stated that he has opened up the door to all who believe him.




Or would you care to rephrase more clearly?
No need to rephrase.
I do however see that your biases are blinding you.
 

Harry Leggs

Well-known member
I didn't ignore them. I said they were garbage.

Now THAT is an assertion. Please walk us through the logic that Homo sapiens is a species of ape equals race slavery. You can add in moral relativism if you wish.
I already did and now it is up to you to show i am wrong. Show us why slavery is incompatible with Godlessness and moral relativity. Perhaps it is above your head.
So atheists being bad is because they are atheists,
There is no bad in atheism. You are assuming facts not in evidence.
Or do you just not understand anything about morality at all?
I understand atheism=Godless= moral relativity. No right no wrong no good no bad.
No, that would be scientists.
It does not matter who says humans are apes since humans are not apes. It is assuming facts Common descent not in evidence. Humans are humans and apes are apes. If you believe you are an ape and men are women because they say they are then by the same standard you believe flat earth.
You really must learn the difference.
Wrong is wrong.
Of course there isn't. Atheism is a lack of belief in God. Not a lack of belief in morality.
There is no morality in atheism other than preference. That is why they believe in murder of the unborn.
Then why are you offering us your personal opinion on this opinion board?
Moral relativity is consistent with atheism is fact, not opinion. Belief humans are apes is consistent with atheism is fact, not opinion. Moral relativity and the belief humans are apes rationally applied = race slavery. These are facts. You have not refuted any of this.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
It does not matter who says humans are apes since humans are not apes. It is assuming facts Common descent not in evidence. Humans are humans and apes are apes. If you believe you are an ape and men are women because they say they are then by the same standard you believe flat earth.
Do you think humans are mammals?
 

Temujin

Well-known member
I already did and now it is up to you to show i am wrong. Show us why slavery is incompatible with Godlessness and moral relativity. Perhaps it is above your head.
No, you made a bald claim, that is all. No reasoning, no evidence, just an opinion asserted as fact.
There is no bad in atheism. You are assuming facts not in evidence.
Very true, yet atheists can still do immoral things, since atheism does not preclude a sense of morality.
I understand atheism=Godless= moral relativity. No right no wrong no good no bad
Then your understanding is woefully mistaken.
It does not matter who says humans are apes since humans are not apes. It is assuming facts Common descent not in evidence. Humans are humans and apes are apes. If you believe you are an ape and men are women because they say they are then by the same standard you believe flat earth.
Humans are vertebrates, mammals, apes and humans. This is what the evidence shows. You can deny the evidence and believe something for which there is no evidence if you wish, but your wishes don't affect the reality.
Wrong is wrong.
Well, you should know.
There is no morality in atheism other than preference. That is why they believe in murder of the unborn.
More ignorance. There are many atheists who are against abortion, just as there are many Christians who are pro-choice.
Moral relativity is consistent with atheism is fact, not opinion. Belief humans are apes is consistent with atheism is fact, not opinion. Moral relativity and the belief humans are apes rationally applied = race slavery. These are facts. You have not refuted any of this.
No need to refute them since they are not facts, just your bald assertion without reasoning or evidence. That you believe it, I don't doubt. That you are scared to examine why you believe it I don't doubt either. You sense that there is no evidence to your claims and you sense your whole house of cards falling down. Is your faith so feeble that you must prop it up with these blatant falsehoods? If it is so clear then explain it. Don't just assert and run away. Show the logic. You make the claim. Now back it up.
 

rossum

Well-known member
God has explicitly made it clear that everyone who wants to know can know.
So, the pre-Christian religions in America and Australia were acceptable to God? That is not the usual attitude I get from you on non-Christian religions. How else could they know if Christian missionaries had not yet arrived?
 

5wize

Well-known member
Not sure what you have in mind here. Can you elaborate?
I've witnessed a lot of different supernatural belief in my time. I find the vast majority of them to be self serving anthropomorphic mumbo-jumbo. It isn't just Christianity.
 

Harry Leggs

Well-known member
Do you think humans are mammals?
It is a human classification that puts humans at the level of animals and presupposes common descent then no since humans are the image and glory of God. Humans represent God on Earth and that is not part of the animal classification so to that extent the answer is no. Classifying animals takes on the same significance as speed limits. They are subjective, theory-laden post hoc judgments. Whales and humans are both mammals ignore whales are in the ocean and humans are on land. So it all depends on what magical formula they come up with. Living in th ocean and living on land is quite a difference to be classified in the same category. It is subjective. Atheism or Godlessness would naturally place kings or Pharaohs as godlike since Godlessness equals king as law. That means kings are above the ruled. Incompatible with Christianity since we are all image and glory of God, not just human rulers.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
So, the pre-Christian religions in America and Australia were acceptable to God? That is not the usual attitude I get from you on non-Christian religions. How else could they know if Christian missionaries had not yet arrived?
That's not what I stated at all.

You really need to learn how to read and not force your biases and preconceptions about it on what I stated.


Psa 19:1-4 WEB 1 The heavens declare the glory of God. The expanse shows his handiwork. 2 Day after day they pour out speech, and night after night they display knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their voice has gone out through all the earth, their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,

Rom 1:19-21 WEB 19 because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. 21 Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened.

Rom 2:11-16 WEB 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without the law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it isn’t the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified 14 (for when Gentiles who don’t have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my Good News, by Jesus Christ.

Those who believe him will know.

The problem you're having isn't what happened to the billions of people who have gone before.

It's what you're going to do with what you know now.
 

5wize

Well-known member
There is no wrong in atheism. So no you do not know it is wrong.

What tenants?

Experienced reality is not your standard. Most atheists believe all life is from exclusive nonlife. That is not experienced reality.
Hate to be the one to clue you in.... you believe that too.. God is timeless and space-less, that is not how we define life now is it?... right?....
Then leave. Who cares about opinion. if you have such contempt as demonstrated in your posts then why are you here? Throwing feces? That would be compatible with your Godless and ape identity.
So frail...
Now we have unwelcome assessments.

More unwelcome and rude assessments.

Christian truth claims based on bodily resurrection of Jesus. If they say otherwise then they are false. What is your point here? Cult is opinion, not fact. Matter of fact most of your post here is hostile and fact-free.
Right. And dead stuff doesn't re-animate. Christianity is therefor not true.
At the end of the day Christianity is either true or not.
Well?..... really not a lot to think about here now is there.
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
I've witnessed a lot of different supernatural belief in my time. I find the vast majority of them to be self serving anthropomorphic mumbo-jumbo. It isn't just Christianity.
That's a curious statement.

This just says that you don't actually know what genuine spirituality is or consists of and have preconceived notions about what you think spirituality is and consists of.

Good job though.

This helps.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
It is a human classification that puts humans at the level of animals and presupposes common descent then no since humans are the image and glory of God. Humans represent God on Earth and that is not part of the animal classification so to that extent the answer is no. Classifying animals takes on the same significance as speed limits. They are subjective, theory-laden post hoc judgments. Whales and humans are both mammals ignore whales are in the ocean and humans are on land. So it all depends on what magical formula they come up with. Living in th ocean and living on land is quite a difference to be classified in the same category. It is subjective. Atheism or Godlessness would naturally place kings or Pharaohs as godlike since Godlessness equals king as law. That means kings are above the ruled. Incompatible with Christianity since we are all image and glory of God, not just human rulers.
Thank you for answering my question.

Perhaps you’d agree that it is objectively true that female humans, along with females of other organisms, have breasts that produce milk that feeds their young. If so, then “mammal” is merely the word for all such organisms. (There are other characteristics of mammals, but let’s keep it simple for now.)
 

5wize

Well-known member
That's a curious statement.

This just says that you don't actually know what genuine spirituality is or consists of and have preconceived notions about what you think spirituality is and consists of.

Good job though.

This helps.
Spirituality? That's exactly what is in question here. Spirituality is just a label you give to your internal self imposed emotional attitudes about your life and some wholly fabricated hope about your future after your death. Steve, you are going to die and that is going to be it.... There's nothing more to it... unless you make it up.... So 1, 2, 3 go.... say something made up that makes you feel good.
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
Spirituality? That's exactly what is in question here. Spirituality is just a label you give to your internal self imposed emotional attitudes about your life and some wholly fabricated hope about your future after your death. Steve, you are going to die and that is going to be it.... There's nothing more to it... unless you make it up.... So 1, 2, 3 go.... say something made up that makes you feel good.
I don't need to say things that make me feel good.

The truth is self-sustaining because of who the Truth is.

I simply noted that your statement is really good evidence that you have no idea what spirituality is.

Your description is a perfect example of demonic spirituality, and is borne on the minds of people who don't know YHVH.
 

Tiburon

Active member
Then you are stuck with rationally explaining Godless universe and existence. That is where atheism fails. Atheism explains nothing.
Simply saying "God did it" explains nothing either. It still leaves us with a multitude of unanswered questions.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
No, you made a bald claim, that is all. No reasoning, no evidence, just an opinion asserted as fact.

Very true, yet atheists can still do immoral things, since atheism does not preclude a sense of morality.

Then your understanding is woefully mistaken.

Humans are vertebrates, mammals, apes and humans. This is what the evidence shows. You can deny the evidence and believe something for which there is no evidence if you wish, but your wishes don't affect the reality.

Well, you should know.

More ignorance. There are many atheists who are against abortion, just as there are many Christians who are pro-choice.

No need to refute them since they are not facts, just your bald assertion without reasoning or evidence. That you believe it, I don't doubt. That you are scared to examine why you believe it I don't doubt either. You sense that there is no evidence to your claims and you sense your whole house of cards falling down. Is your faith so feeble that you must prop it up with these blatant falsehoods? If it is so clear then explain it. Don't just assert and run away. Show the logic. You make the claim. Now back it up.
That means you cannot refute them. They are above your skillset.
So, as predicted, you run away. I have enough skill to expect that, it seems.

You have made some extraordinary claims that contradict what scientists who study these things tell us. We don't need to refute these claims unless you back them up. At the moment all we have are ravings. You can't just claim that science is just human, subjective guesses and that your statements are facts, without evidence. There is for example very strong evidence that both whales and humans are mammals. Your claim that they are not is just that, a claim with no evidence.

You are of course, entitled to skip Town when invited to explain. Just as we are entitled to draw conclusions when you do so.
 

rossum

Well-known member
The problem you're having isn't what happened to the billions of people who have gone before.
That is not my problem, that is a problem for your narrow God who wants people to worship Him, while not telling them how to do it. It is made worse by him changing His mind on what worship is acceptable. Animal sacrifices to Him were welcome in the Old Testament, but He changed His mind in the New Testament.

How did Australians get the word that things changed?
 
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