There Is No Such Thing As An Atheist

JAG

Active member
If you really did believe 1 -- you would be like Him. God is a Spirit as it says and He created man in His image as it says which is SPirit as it says but as yourself most reject and refuse to be in His same image to walk as He walks in it as it says you will if you really do follow that God and you would be perfect even as He is perfect as it says, you would have the same signs follow you as it says IF YOU BELIEVE HIM. Your statement is hypocritical charging one with the very thing you are guilty of.
False.
Nonsense too.

JAG
 

JAG

Active member
Empirical evidence that God (or anything else) exists empirically is expected.
World-peace was expected too -- but it never materialized.

Hillary and Billary expected to win in 2016 -- but they did not get their expectations.

You may expect Empirical evidences for the truth of Christianity but you will never receive
your expectations "without faith it is impossible to please God"

Christianity is a Faith, it is NOT a philosophical intellectual system built on the foundation
of Empiricism and Rationalism.

JAG

``
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
The 2016 election was determined empirically.
Empirical evidence for all empirical claims is indeed expected. The "truth" of Christianity has not been empirically established.
Again you assume the existence of God but offer no empirical evidence. Your God is no different -in terms of existence, than any other imaginary character. What pleases your God is entirely up to your own imagination. I could imagine the exact opposite and you wouldn't be able to empirically demonstrate that you are correct and I am incorrect. Your beliefs exist in your mind/imagination etc and have no bearing on anyone else. That others do not believe what you believe is the issue and your obstacle to making your argument.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
I know lots of statements that God said in the Bible,
so I disagree with your post. My OP explains why.

Then this , , ,
I have 2 choices:
{1{ I can believe what God said.
{2} I can believe what you say.

I choose to believe {1}

JAG
I don't think Atheists are in denial. They really do not believe in the Christian God.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
in your view, your OP explains why you think my view is wrong. That's it, just your view.
The problem you face is that your use of scripture is based on your view also. So you are merely supporting your own opinion with your own opinion, while disregarding reality, btw.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
My view is that all men KNOW there is a God that created them.
I have strong Biblical reasons for believing this to be true.

Here they are , , ,


Romans 1:19-20
Romans 1:19-20 says "since what may be known about
God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to
them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible
qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have
been clearly seen, being understood from what has
been made, so that people are without excuse."

Note the particulars in Romans 1:19-20
{1) There is information that can be known about God.
{2} This information is plain to men.
{3} God Himself has made it plain to them.
{4} It has been plain to them since the creation of the world.
{5} God's eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen
{6} All this in understood from what God created.
{7} Therefore men are without excuse {for not believing in God.}

Romans 1:19-20 is the germ principle of the Teleological Argument
for the existence of God -- the argument from the Intelligent Design
of the Human Person, the Earth-Sun-Moon-Stars, and the Universe.


Psalm 19:1-4 , , ,
Psalm 19:1-4 says , , ,
"The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world."

Note the particulars in Psalm 19:1-4
{1} The Heavens declare God's glory.
{2} The skies above proclaim His works
{3} Day after day they speak of God's creative work
{4} Night after night they reveal God's works
{5} They use no literal word but their voice goes out worldwide
{6} Therefore all men KNOW there is a God

Just because some men claim they lack belief in the existence
of God does not mean that they actually DO lack belief in the
existence of God. On Christian lights, God, in Romans, and in
other Bible verses, says there is no such thing as an atheist.
As a Christian I have a clear choice:
{1} I can believe what God says
{2} I can believe what mere men claim to be true.

I choose to believe {1}
{see list of those 5 Bible references below}


Romans 1:18
Romans 1:18 says that humans "suppress the truth." Atheists
are part of humanity, so Romans 1:18 applies to them also.


Romans 2:15 , , ,
Romans 2:15 says the requirements of the Laws of God are
"written on their hearts." So all men know there is a God that
created them.


Ecclesiastes 3:11 , , ,
Ecclesiastes 3:11 says , , ,
"He has also set eternity in the human heart"


Five Biblical References , , ,
These Bible verses clearly teach there is no such thing
as an atheist.
Romans 1:18-20
Romans 1:18
Romans 2:15
Psalm 19:1-4
Ecclesiastes 3:11

Best.

JAG


``

Not according to my experience.
I have
Not according to my experience.

Not according to my experience.
so?
 

JAG

Active member
in your view, your OP explains why you think my view is wrong. That's it, just your view.
The problem you face is that your use of scripture is based on your view also. So you are merely supporting your own opinion with your own opinion, while disregarding reality, btw.
You can put your Spin, Twist, and Wiggle on the OP to your heart's content.
I have 2 choices here:
{1) I can believe what God says in those verses in my OP
{2} I can believe what you a mere man says.

I choose {1) and will continue to choose {1} regardless of what
YOU say. I am not going to budge 1/800 of an inch on this.

By the way, why do you care what I believe?
You can live in your un-faith world and I will live in my faith-world.

JAG

``
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
You can put your Spin, Twist, and Wiggle on the OP to your heart's content.
I have 2 choices here:
{1) I can believe what God says in those verses in my OP
{2} I can believe what you a mere man says.

I choose {1) and will continue to choose {1} regardless of what
YOU say. I am not going to budge 1/800 of an inch on this.

By the way, why do you care what I believe?
You can live in your un-faith world and I will live in my faith-world.

JAG

``
you believe you have two distinct choices but you really only listed one.
1. You can believe what mere man wrote in those verses
or
2. believe what mere man says.

it's the same thing.
Faith is not a path to knowledge, especially faith that is founded on nothing more than faith.
 

JAG

Active member
you believe you have two distinct choices but you really only listed one.
1. You can believe what mere man wrote in those verses
or
2. believe what mere man says.

it's the same thing.
Faith is not a path to knowledge, especially faith that is founded on nothing more than faith.
False.
That is what YOU say, but you are not an authority
on what is, or is not, the correct path to knowledge.

You don't have the Power or the Authority to "rule out" Faith as
a reliable path to truth and knowledge.

Christianity is a Faith -- but this does not mean that Christianity
is based on Fideism {blind faith} ~ ~ there are many arguments
for the truth of Christianity ~ ~ here are 20 of them right here:


Many of we Christians say that these arguments are valid
arguments and therefore these 20 arguments can be trusted
to give support to the truth of the Bible -- my OP quotes the
Bible.

These arguments are based on high Probability and high Plausibility

and NOT based upon Empiricism that rises to the certainty-level of
2 + 2 = 4 ~ ~ just as the arguments that you put forth to support
what you believe are not based on Empiricism that rises to the
certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4 , , ,

So?

So you are a man of faith also. You have no Empirical evidences to
support your beliefs that rise to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4
~ ~ yet you still have your beliefs.

So I have 2 choices:
{1} Believe what God says in those verses in my OP
{1} Believe what YOU say.

I choose {1}

JAG

``
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
False.
That is what YOU say, but you are not an authority
on what is, or is not, the correct path to knowledge.

You don't have the Power or the Authority to "rule out" Faith as
a reliable path to truth and knowledge.

Christianity is a Faith -- but this does not mean that Christianity
is based on Fideism {blind faith} ~ ~ there are many arguments
for the truth of Christianity ~ ~ here are 20 of them right here:


Many of we Christians say that these arguments are valid
arguments and therefore these 20 arguments can be trusted
to give support to the truth of the Bible -- my OP quotes the
Bible.

These arguments are based on high Probability and high Plausibility
and NOT based upon Empiricism that rises to the certainty-level of
2 + 2 = 4 ~ ~ just as the arguments that you put forth to support
what you believe are not based on Empiricism that rises to the
certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4 , , ,

So?

So you are a man of faith also. You have no Empirical evidences to
support your beliefs that rise to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4
~ ~ yet you still have your beliefs.

So I have 2 choices:
{1} Believe what God says in those verses in my OP
{1} Believe what YOU say.

I choose {1}

JAG

``
Faith is not a path to knowledge.
Your faith is supported by nothing more than faith. It logically circular.
 

JAG

Active member
Faith is not a path to knowledge.
Your faith is supported by nothing more than faith. It logically circular.
False ~ ~ Faith IS a path to knowledge. YOU are NOT my authority
on what is, or is not, a correct path to knowledge.

JAG Wrote The Following To Another Poster -- but it is 100%
applicable to you.

Regarding my post on the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:
Here is what I have found to be true after decades on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:

Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions.

Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.

Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.

Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to activist thread atheists
they will ALWAYS tell you that you have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support
your Christian propositions.

My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above impossible
situation, they will do exactly that.

Best Regards.

JAG
End quote.

Bible Verse For Today:

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who
are perishing,

but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent
I will frustrate."
1 Corinthians 1:18-19


``
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
faith is only a path to faith.
Questions and curiosity are paths to knowledge.
and until something changes, Atheists will continue to point out that evidence for the existence of God has not been presented. What you have done is present evidence of your belief. But nothing more.
 

JAG

Active member
faith is only a path to faith.
Questions and curiosity are paths to knowledge.
and until something changes, Atheists will continue to point out that evidence for the existence of God has not been presented. What you have done is present evidence of your belief. But nothing more.
♣ False ~ ~ Faith IS a path to knowledge. YOU are NOT my authority
on what is, or is not, a correct path to knowledge.

♣ The world is a huge place -- you can be you ~ ~ and I can be me.

♣ You can live in your un-faith world ~ ~ and I can live in my faith-world.

♣ You want no part of my Faith-World and I want no part of your Un-Faith-World.

♣ You have a secular moral code. You can NOT prove your secular moral code to
be true with Empirical evidences that rise to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4.

So?

So YOU are ALSO a man of faith -- you believe in your secular moral code but you
can NOT prove your secular moral code to be true with evidence that rises to
the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4

___________________________



"atheists will continue to point out"__bigthinker
♣ Atheists can continue to "point out" whatever they want to "point out" and
we Christians will ALSO continue to "point out" our faith-based-beliefs backed
up with MANY evidences that DO rise to the truth-level of high Probability and high
Plausibility ~ ~
for example these 20 arguments for the existence
of God and for the truth of Christianity, right here at this link:


Regarding the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:
Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:


Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions. They concocted and invented
the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy in an effort to stop
Christians from appealing to the Bible as a reliable source of truth
and knowledge.


Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.


Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.


Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to
activist thread atheists they will ALWAYS tell you that you
have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support your
Christian propositions.


My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above
impossible situation, they will do exactly that.

JAG

Bible Verses For Today:
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent
I will frustrate." ___ 1 Corinthians 1:18-19


```
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
♣ False ~ ~ Faith IS a path to knowledge. YOU are NOT my authority
on what is, or is not, a correct path to knowledge.

♣ The world is a huge place -- you can be you ~ ~ and I can be me.

♣ You can live in your un-faith world ~ ~ and I can live in my faith-world.

♣ You want no part of my Faith-World and I want no part of your Un-Faith-World.

♣ You have a secular moral code. You can NOT prove your secular moral code to
be true with Empirical evidences that rise to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4.

So?

So YOU are ALSO a man of faith -- you believe in your secular moral code but you
can NOT prove your secular moral code to be true with evidence that rises to
the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4

___________________________



"atheists will continue to point out"__bigthinker
♣ Atheists can continue to "point out" whatever they want to "point out" and
we Christians will ALSO continue to "point out" our faith-based-beliefs backed
up with MANY evidences that DO rise to the truth-level of high Probability and high
Plausibility ~ ~
for example these 20 arguments for the existence
of God and for the truth of Christianity, right here at this link:


Regarding the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:
Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:


Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions. They concocted and invented
the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy in an effort to stop
Christians from appealing to the Bible as a reliable source of truth
and knowledge.


Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.


Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.


Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to
activist thread atheists they will ALWAYS tell you that you
have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support your
Christian propositions.


My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above
impossible situation, they will do exactly that.

JAG

Bible Verses For Today:
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent
I will frustrate." ___ 1 Corinthians 1:18-19


```
self reinforcing nonsense. The picture looks different when you stop drinking the kool-aid and start asking real questions.
One doesn't realize their own blindness when they're drinking the kool-aid and reinforcing their beliefs with the propaganda.
 

JAG

Active member
self reinforcing nonsense. The picture looks different when you stop drinking the kool-aid and start asking real questions.
One doesn't realize their own blindness when they're drinking the kool-aid and reinforcing their beliefs with the propaganda.
False absurd nonsense.
Your posts reflect a huge consumption of pure Kool Aid.
While you are sipping on your Kool Aid read these 20 Arguments
in support of the existence of God and in support of the truth of
Christianity.


JAG

PS
And remember this , , ,

♣ Regarding the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:
Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:

Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions. They concocted and invented
the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy in an effort to stop
Christians from appealing to the Bible as a reliable source of truth
and knowledge.

Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.

Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.

Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to
activist thread atheists they will ALWAYS tell you that you
have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support your
Christian propositions.



``
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
♣ False ~ ~ Faith IS a path to knowledge. YOU are NOT my authority
on what is, or is not, a correct path to knowledge.

♣ The world is a huge place -- you can be you ~ ~ and I can be me.

♣ You can live in your un-faith world ~ ~ and I can live in my faith-world.

♣ You want no part of my Faith-World and I want no part of your Un-Faith-World.

♣ You have a secular moral code. You can NOT prove your secular moral code to
be true with Empirical evidences that rise to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4.

So?

So YOU are ALSO a man of faith -- you believe in your secular moral code but you
can NOT prove your secular moral code to be true with evidence that rises to
the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4

___________________________



"atheists will continue to point out"__bigthinker
♣ Atheists can continue to "point out" whatever they want to "point out" and
we Christians will ALSO continue to "point out" our faith-based-beliefs backed
up with MANY evidences that DO rise to the truth-level of high Probability and high
Plausibility ~ ~
for example these 20 arguments for the existence
of God and for the truth of Christianity, right here at this link:


Regarding the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:
Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:


Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions. They concocted and invented
the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy in an effort to stop
Christians from appealing to the Bible as a reliable source of truth
and knowledge.


Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.


Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.


Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to
activist thread atheists they will ALWAYS tell you that you
have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support your
Christian propositions.


My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above
impossible situation, they will do exactly that.

JAG

Bible Verses For Today:
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent
I will frustrate." ___ 1 Corinthians 1:18-19


```
no one is jerking anyone around. It's the same problem, believers believe but can't demonstrate that their beliefs have any relationship to reality. I'm not sure why believers are unwilling to acknowledge or address this fact. Instead they whine that atheists jerk them around and won't accept anything as evidence. If the believe understood anything about evidence, they'd understand. Instead they curl up in their beliefs oblivious to the nonsensical nature of their position.
If you could make your case, you would - demonstrate that your God exists outside of your imagination.
But you can't, can you.
False absurd nonsense.
Your posts reflect a huge consumption of pure Kool Aid.
While you are sipping on your Kool Aid read these 20 Arguments
in support of the existence of God and in support of the truth of
Christianity.
Interesting that they need twenty when one would do -if any of them were true.
Pick your favorite -the one you think makes the strongest case and let's discuss.
JAG

PS
And remember this , , ,

♣ Regarding the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:
Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:
Regardless, your reasoning is circular. Address the point.
Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions. They concocted and invented
the so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy in an effort to stop
Christians from appealing to the Bible as a reliable source of truth
and knowledge.
It is incumbent upon the believer to establish the Bible as a reliable source of truth. Assuming or mere assertion is insufficient. Try holding yourself to the same standards you hold those with whom you disagree.
Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.
Yes. Christianity doesn't get a pass, all claims of fact or truth are subject to the same standards. Do you think your beliefs warrant special treatment? If so why?
Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.
It is not the fault of logic or atheists that Christians cannot sufficiently support their beliefs and claims with proper, independently verifiable evidence.
Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to
activist thread atheists they will ALWAYS tell you that you
have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support your
Christian propositions.
Until such time the believer makes their case. The believer's failure to make their case is not the atheist's problem and in fact is the point. Stop whining about it and either accept it or make your case.
 
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