There Is No Such Thing As An Atheist

Gary Mac

Well-known member
no one is jerking anyone around. It's the same problem, believers believe but can't demonstrate that their beliefs have any relationship to reality. I'm not sure why believers are unwilling to acknowledge or address this fact. Instead they whine that atheists jerk them around and won't accept anything as evidence. If the believe understood anything about evidence, they'd understand. Instead they curl up in their beliefs oblivious to the nonsensical nature of their position.
If you could make your case, you would - demonstrate that your God exists outside of your imagination.
But you can't, can you.
Reality is like imagining a man on mars then figuring out how to get one there. Once he is there reality sets in, until then faith is the motivator. Faith will produce anything you are determined to produce. Same way with Christ. You cant suppose yourself to be in a certain condition that you never have been in on Mars or in Christ. If you actually applied how to, then reality of stepping into it becomes reality. Until then your argument is only from speculation with no substance to sustain it
Interesting that they need twenty when one would do -if any of them were true.
Pick your favorite -the one you think makes the strongest case and let's discuss.
A favorite is why dont you search out for yourself and receive from the author of it that He may show you the truth about Him? Until you do, your argument holds no water at all and all you will do is comment about it from ignorance.
Regardless, your reasoning is circular. Address the point.

It is incumbent upon the believer to establish the Bible as a reliable source of truth. Assuming or mere assertion is insufficient. Try holding yourself to the same standards you hold those with whom you disagree.
The bible is only a tutorial to lead you to the Only One who can open His truth in you. The bible is an instruction manual for how to achieve that finished product. Most skip the manual and try and assemble on their own and wind up with a few spare parts they cant fit in.
Yes. Christianity doesn't get a pass, all claims of fact or truth are subject to the same standards. Do you think your beliefs warrant special treatment? If so why?
The thing about Christ is it isnt a belief at all, it is the manifestation of Love in man. Christ in you is you anointed of God WHo is a SPirit and that SPirit is Love and man is the temple of. So simple a God yet so complicated the religious folk make Him.
It is not the fault of logic or atheists that Christians cannot sufficiently support their beliefs and claims with proper, independently verifiable evidence.
Correct it is up to the individuals to seek Him out for truths themselves. Most dont have the tenacity even to get started. Their mind capacity is locked in a trench they cant want to escaspe from in fear. They are like in a trench prepairinig munitions for war and killed in the process.
Until such time the believer makes their case. The believer's failure to make their case is not the atheist's problem and in fact is the point. Stop whining about it and either accept it or make your case.
It isnt up to the believer to make a case, Having Gods PSirit is not a beliefe, it is the disposition of the beholder of. And it is up the recepient of Gods SPirit to live it by example so that you may see.

Sadly most claiming to be Christain hasnt a clue what it is to have from God that what Jesus and others we read of had from Him. All they have is rules and regulation they have conjured from ignorance and put into law to regulate their beliefs. Denominations are notorious for this very thing. that is why non of these can agree on anything about the gods they regulate to be in their image.

One can believe anything about a god, but few who seek out the One Jesus tried to lead people to that he called Father.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
The 2016 election was determined empirically.
Empirical evidence for all empirical claims is indeed expected. The "truth" of Christianity has not been empirically established.
Again you assume the existence of God but offer no empirical evidence. Your God is no different -in terms of existence, than any other imaginary character. What pleases your God is entirely up to your own imagination. I could imagine the exact opposite and you wouldn't be able to empirically demonstrate that you are correct and I am incorrect. Your beliefs exist in your mind/imagination etc and have no bearing on anyone else. That others do not believe what you believe is the issue and your obstacle to making your argument.
It hasnt been empirically established by those who dont have the gumption to seek out the truth. All these do is spew comments from a mind completly ignorant of the truth.

What is the truth? Seek ot God and see for yourself. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all His truths will be added to you by God Himself. Now you will make escuse there is no God? How do you know lest you try? You cant knwo at all. You are like all denominations who make your own laws to govern your bliefs. Not willing at all to search out that what you dont understand.

And as you stated You are assuming the existance of God and offer no empirical evidence there isnt where your mind is limited to an imagenary character because it isnt capable of seeking out the truth and the manifestation of.

It isnt a matter of who is right or who is wrong, it is a matter of you seeking out for yourself what is right and what is wrong. Christianity is not about good doing, Christianity is about good being. Unfportunatle most claiming ot be Christian doesnt have a clue what it is to be that person of Christ that God puts His knowledge int man by His SPirit. And a spirit that you do not believe exists is one you are not willing yourself to seek out where you totally comment about it from a mdepraved ming that is not willing to find the truth.

What is the use of it if the root of your teachings it to try and convence others how noble and knowledgable you are whether you are so called Christian or you are atheist? The mind of these have chosen their own scene for your own martyrdom where you think it turns into usfual teachings.

Skepticism is the root of your teachings that holds no truths only skepricisam about a truth is all. .
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
faith is only a path to faith.
Questions and curiosity are paths to knowledge.
and until something changes, Atheists will continue to point out that evidence for the existence of God has not been presented. What you have done is present evidence of your belief. But nothing more.
Faith will produce anything you are determined to produce. Fasith will experiemnt to manifest thast wehat the mind imagines. Man imagined a man on the moon faith to get him there and the tenacity to carry it out.

Atesist dont have that tenacity to manifest thathat truth is all. Lazy and unwilling to seek it out themselves.

Sorry for the typos and spelling and grammer, Im terrable at it.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
Reality is like imagining a man on mars then figuring out how to get one there. Once he is there reality sets in, until then faith is the motivator. Faith will produce anything you are determined to produce. Same way with Christ. You cant suppose yourself to be in a certain condition that you never have been in on Mars or in Christ. If you actually applied how to, then reality of stepping into it becomes reality. Until then your argument is only from speculation with no substance to sustain it
[/QUOTE]
The difference is that Mars exists, man exists, the methods to determine how to get there exist. In this case we begin from what is known. This is fundamentally different from starting from a mere belief or the unknown.
A favorite is why dont you search out for yourself and receive from the author of it that He may show you the truth about Him? Until you do, your argument holds no water at all and all you will do is comment about it from ignorance.
So if I seek out the answer for myself from the author then my argument will "hold water"?
As it turns out, I have done exactly that and the result is that I no longer believe that God exists outside of the believer's imagination.
Since I know it is coming, I am eager to hear what your next excuse is going to be.
The bible is only a tutorial to lead you to the Only One who can open His truth in you. The bible is an instruction manual for how to achieve that finished product. Most skip the manual and try and assemble on their own and wind up with a few spare parts they cant fit in.
I suspect a circular argument. Do you accept the bible because you first believed in God or do you believe in God because you first believed the bible?
The thing about Christ is it isnt a belief at all, it is the manifestation of Love in man.
So it is the belief of the manifestation of Love in man.

Christ in you is you anointed of God WHo is a SPirit and that SPirit is Love and man is the temple of. So simple a God yet so complicated the religious folk make Him.
This "Christ" you refer to... is this another imaginary person like God or more like Sasquatch? My point is that just tossing out names or characters doesn't really mean anything; the existence of this Christ is something that needs to be established, not merely asserted or assumed.
Correct it is up to the individuals to seek Him out for truths themselves.

Most dont have the tenacity even to get started. Their mind capacity is locked in a trench they cant want to escaspe from in fear. They are like in a trench prepairinig munitions for war and killed in the process.

It isnt up to the believer to make a case,
If the believer makes a claim, then it is up to the believer to make their case. The burden falls to the person making the claim.

Having Gods PSirit is not a beliefe, it is the disposition of the beholder of.
You believe that God exists and is or has a spirit.
And it is up the recepient of Gods SPirit to live it by example so that you may see.

Sadly most claiming to be Christain hasnt a clue what it is to have from God that what Jesus and others we read of had from Him. All they have is rules and regulation they have conjured from ignorance and put into law to regulate their beliefs. Denominations are notorious for this very thing. that is why non of these can agree on anything about the gods they regulate to be in their image.
Each believer imagines their own God which is a reflection of their own idealized moral values. This is why God always agrees with the believer -even though they will self identify as sinners. Therefore, each believer has different ideas of what is important to God and it is the reason not all believers agree on everything related to God.
One can believe anything about a god, but few who seek out the One Jesus tried to lead people to that he called Father.
Yes, one can believe anything about a god. There is no one Jesus; each believer has their own version.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
The difference is that Mars exists, man exists, the methods to determine how to get there exist. In this case we begin from what is known. This is fundamentally different from starting from a mere belief or the unknown.

No you do not begin with what is known, you figure it out what you dont know as you go. Love is known, Love is not a belief at all, God is Love, just as Mars is known, but you cant get there no more than you can get to Mars without effort.
So if I seek out the answer for myself from the author then my argument will "hold water"?
As it turns out, I have done exactly that and the result is that I no longer believe that God exists outside of the believer's imagination.Since I know it is coming, I am eager to hear what your next excuse is going to be.
That is because you were seeking the moon mistaking it for Mars. You didnt follow the path to mars and landed on the moon instead, that is why it never became a reality, you looked in the wrong place and because you didnt follow to the end gave up. and made an assumption with no reality instead.


I suspect a circular argument. Do you accept the bible because you first believed in God or do you believe in God because you first believed the bible?
I was atheist and from pure curiosity and research, I found out God is not what these portreyed Him to be, He simply is Love noting more or anything less than. Religious folk will beg to differ. These have no reality of God, they are waiting for a man to come as god and cant relate to God who is love manifest in them to have that same disposition.
So it is the belief of the manifestation of Love in man.
Not at all, it is the reality of the manifestation of. Belief is only speculation goverened by law.

This "Christ" you refer to... is this another imaginary person like God or more like Sasquatch? My point is that just tossing out names or characters doesn't really mean anything; the existence of this Christ is something that needs to be established, not merely asserted or assumed.
Christ i not a person at all, Christ is the dicposition of the person who is anointed of Gods Love to walk as He walks in it.
Christ means Gods anointed one and either you are or you are not anointed by Love as your own mind.


If the believer makes a claim, then it is up to the believer to make their case. The burden falls to the person making the claim.
Denominations are notorious for this, making claims they cant back up. The only reality of God is if you are like Him, every thing else is is only a belief, speculation about Him. You know very well if you are like Him or not just as these other religious folk do. And yes you are religious for you have made your own laws to govern god just as these do. Just different laws to regulate your beliefs of a god. You know if you have a mind that is motivated by Love. Holy Love or Holy Spirit as the bible calls it. God is a SPirit that SPirit is Love and man is the temple of. Really simple.

You believe that God exists and is or has a spirit.
No I do not believe God exists. Again beliefs are spawn from speculation. the reality of God is I am like Him, has His same disposition that of Love. manifest in me.
Each believer imagines their own God which is a reflection of their own idealized moral values. This is why God always agrees with the believer -even though they will self identify as sinners. Therefore, each believer has different ideas of what is important to God and it is the reason not all believers agree on everything related to God.
And you are guilty of the very same thing as these. Just as with these you have made your own laws to regulate your beliefs.
As far as sin, If you have Love as your disposition there is no room for sin at all. Sin is seperation from the God of Love.

Yes, one can believe anything about a god. There is no one Jesus; each believer has their own version.
And just as with you -- you are no different from these you can believe anything about Him.
Romans kept very good historical records of events, people in governemt, persicutions and such. There is no mention of a man named Jesus except one small mention of the name. If Jesus had stirred people and Rome to the capacity that is portreyed in the bible seems to me the Romans would have written volums about it dont ya thinK?
Did Jesus exist? There no more proof than I can prove man went to Moon. All I have of man on the moon is what others said about it. SOme say it was all fabricated, that is their beliefs. The only way that I could know the truth is to go there myself, until then all I can do is believe or reject what others said about it. Jesus is no difference, but I can tell you that from what was quoted of him what he said of himself and his relationship to God, I can identify with the same. It is no longer a belief open for specualtion and opinion, it is who I am. for I have been to that same place.

One cant assume himself to be in a certain condition that he never has been in.
 

JAG

Active member
no one is jerking anyone around.
False.
Activist Thread Atheists attempt to do exactly that.

But you will fail. You will not succeed in your attempts to
jerk knowledgeable Christians around with your underhanded
schemes.

It's the same problem,
If there is a problem it is YOUR problem and YOU can deal with it, or not.

believers believe but can't demonstrate that their beliefs have any relationship to reality.
False nonsense. YOU are NOT the Authority on what believers do, or do not do.
YOU are NOT the Authority on what is, or is not reality.
YOU do NOT tell me how I need to write my posts to line up with YOUR concept
of reality.
YOU are my ideological enemy.
Do you understand the concept of enemy?
Do you understand the following?
The Communist-Democrats vs. The Republicans.
The wretched-Liberals vs. the Noble Conservatives.
Evil Lex Luther vs, Superman
The Joker vs. Batman.
Befuddled Communist-Pelosi vs. Trump
Patton vs. Rommel
Do you understand the concept of enemy?
I consider you my ideological enemy (regardless of what you think about it}

By the way , , ,
Another scheme of Activist Thread Atheists is to dishonestly pretend that
they are "not really the enemies" of Christians -- rather they DISHONESTLY
pretend that they are "merely seekers of truth" that will follow the evidence
anywhere it leads -- all the while their TRUE INTENT is to mock and ridicule
the God of the Bible and mock and ridicule Christianity.
So?
So YOU are my ideological enemy.

I'm not sure why believers are unwilling to acknowledge or address this fact.
More false nonsense. We Christians have many good solid arguments that support
the existence of God and the truth of Christianity. YOU do NOT know what you are
talking about.
Here are 20 Arguments in support of the existence of God and the truth of Christianity.

Instead they whine that atheists jerk them around and won't accept anything as evidence.
YOU are the whiner and the complainer.
And Activist Thread Atheists DO attempt to "jerk Christians around" with their concoctions
and schemes to shut down the presentations of Bible truths. See again their Plan #1 and Plan #2
and Plan #3 down-post.

If the believe understood anything about evidence,
YOU are NOT my Authority on what is, or is not, evidence.
I pay zero attention to what you say about evidence.
I pay zero attention to what YOU say about Christianity.
YOU are my ideological enemy -- regardless of what you say to
the contrary.

they'd understand. Instead they curl up in their beliefs oblivious to the nonsensical nature of their position.
It is YOUR position that is nonsensical. See Psalm 14:1
If you could make your case, you would - demonstrate that your God exists outside of your imagination.
But you can't, can you.
False.
Who do you think you are?
I have no obligation to "make my case" that God exists just because YOU say so.
YOU are my ideological enemy.
And YOU do not tell me what to do, or not to do, with regard to my truth presentations
about God and about Christianity.


Interesting that they need twenty when one would do -if any of them were true.
Pick your favorite -the one you think makes the strongest case and let's discuss.
I have no intention of discussing anything with YOU.
You have no authority to tell me that "one would do" -- I linked
to Peter Kreeft's 20 Arguments for the existence of God and for the
the truth of Christianity ONLY BECAUSE , , YOU , , falsely said that
I was basing my OP ONLY on the Bible. I linked to those 20 arguments
ONLY to demonstrate that what YOU said was FALSE. Those 20 Arguments
are logical demonstrations that Christianity is true and therefore the Bible
is a reliable guide to truth and therefore so is my OP.

Moreover , , ,
There is no such thing as an atheist. All men know there is a God.
_________________________________________________________

Romans 1:19-20 says "since what may be known about
God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to
them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible
qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have
been clearly seen, being understood from what has
been made, so that people are without excuse."

Note the particulars in Romans 1:19-20
{1) There is information that can be known about God.
{2} This information is plain to men.
{3} God Himself has made it plain to them.
{4} It has been plain to them since the creation of the world.
{5} God's eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen
{6} All this in understood from what God created.
{7} Therefore men are without excuse {for not believing in God.}
____________________________________________________________________


Regarding the so-called "circular reasoning"
fallacy:


Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:

Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions.

Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.

Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.

Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to activist thread atheists
they will ALWAYS tell you that you have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support
your Christian propositions.

My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above impossible
situation, they will do exactly that.

JAG
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
It hasnt been empirically established by those who dont have the gumption to seek out the truth. All these do is spew comments from a mind completly ignorant of the truth.

What is the truth? Seek ot God and see for yourself.
[/QUOTE]
I have. It turns out the truth is that Gods exist in the imaginations of believers. I'm sure you disagree and I would say that is because you have belief rather than truth.
Truth can be tested and verified -otherwise it is merely a belief. What test do you recommend I perform to arrive at the same conclusion as you?
Truth is universal and independent of belief.

Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all His truths will be added to you by God Himself. Now you will make escuse there is no God? How do you know lest you try? You cant knwo at all. You are like all denominations who make your own laws to govern your bliefs. Not willing at all to search out that what you dont understand.
I've tried.
And as you stated You are assuming the existance of God and offer no empirical evidence there isnt where your mind is limited to an imagenary character because it isnt capable of seeking out the truth and the manifestation of.
This is an excuse - "special condition" which is not how truth works. Gravity is true regardless of belief; water boils at 212 degrees at sea level whether one believes or doesn't. This is how truth works. What you are requiring is that one first believes in God. You assume your conclusion.
It isnt a matter of who is right or who is wrong,
Yes that's exactly what this is. Truth isn't subjective. And in this case we're discussing who is right and who is wrong. Your belief that God exists is based on your belief that God exists. Truth is able to be shared as knowledge. Truth can be independently and objectively verified. From what you are saying -from your suggestions on how I could arrive at the same conclusion, your beliefs are just your beliefs and not truth -its not factual.

it is a matter of you seeking out for yourself what is right and what is wrong.
This is subjectivity.
Christianity is not about good doing, Christianity is about good being.
Your Christianity is about whatever you believe it to be about. Your Christianity is your Christianity.
Unfportunatle most claiming ot be Christian doesnt have a clue what it is to be that person of Christ that God puts His knowledge int man by His SPirit. And a spirit that you do not believe exists is one you are not willing yourself to seek out where you totally comment about it from a mdepraved ming that is not willing to find the truth.

What is the use of it if the root of your teachings it to try and convence others how noble and knowledgable you are whether you are so called Christian or you are atheist? The mind of these have chosen their own scene for your own martyrdom where you think it turns into usfual teachings.

Skepticism is the root of your teachings that holds no truths only skepricisam about a truth is all. .
Skepticism, curiosity, doubt are the root of knowledge. Knowledge and truth are arrived at by first asking the question then seeking the answer. In your case it seems that you may have started from a a position of belief instead of first questioning whether belief is relevant or even a meaningful path to knowledge (it isn't btw).
Those who seek truth and knowledge don't assume a conclusion but rather follow the data to the verifiable, reliable, testable conclusion. After all, those who seek truth aren't seeking to confirm what they already believe, they seek factual, reliable, testable, independently verifiable, factual truth.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
False.
Activist Thread Atheists attempt to do exactly that.
Likely you interpret it as being jerked around because you lack proper answers. Believers give their beliefs special treatment -they don't subject their beliefs to the same level of critical scrutiny to which they subject other claims. This shouldn't be frustrating nor should it seem like being jerked around and it wouldn't be if you were able to respond with a reasonable answer. the fact that you interpret it as being jerked around should tell you something about the nature of your conclusion -it is a belief and not fact.
But you will fail. You will not succeed in your attempts to
jerk knowledgeable Christians around with your underhanded
schemes.
There is nothing underhanded about it. Stop whining. The reason you find it frustrating is that quite likely deep down you know we are right and are afraid of what it would mean if you acknowledged that fact. You have an emotional connection to your belief. You likely don't feel the same emotional connection to the boiling temperature of water or the existence of trees. That is because the boiling temp of water is not based on personal belief and likewise, the existence of trees is not predicated on a belief that trees exist. Water boils are 212F (at sea level) regardless of what anyone believes just as trees exist regardless of what anyone believes.

My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above impossible
situation, they will do exactly that.

JAG
You haven't bothered to question why it is impossible for you to demonstrate that your beliefs are relevant outside of your imagination? Of course it seems like being jerked around, you lack truth and you're being asked to demonstrate that your beliefs are true which you cannot do.
Instead of whining about it and making excuses, you should ask yourself why.
 

JAG

Active member
Likely you interpret it as being jerked around because you lack proper answers.
False.
YOU are no authority on what is, or is not, proper answers.
YOU are not my Authority on anything.

Believers give their beliefs special treatment -they don't subject their beliefs to the same level of critical scrutiny to which they subject other claims. This shouldn't be frustrating nor should it seem like being jerked around and it wouldn't be if you were able to respond with a reasonable answer. the fact that you interpret it as being jerked around should tell you something about the nature of your conclusion -it is a belief and not fact.
False nonsense.
Here is the truth

Regarding your so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:

Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:

Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions.

Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.

Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.

Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to activist thread atheists
they will ALWAYS tell you that you have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support
your Christian propositions.

My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above impossible
situation, they will do exactly that.





There is nothing underhanded about it.
False.

Stop whining.
YOU stop whining.
YOU are a constant whiner.


The reason you find it frustrating is that quite likely deep down you know we are right and are afraid of what it would mean if you acknowledged that fact.

I do not find it frustrating.
I give zero serious attention to what you say because you are my ideological enemy.
Deep down I know that you are the ideological enemy of Christianity in spite of any
claims you have to the contrary
.

YOU are NOT the Authority on what is, or is not reality.
YOU do NOT tell me how I need to write my posts to line up with YOUR concept
of reality.
YOU are my ideological enemy.
Do you understand the concept of enemy?
Do you understand the following?
The Communist-Democrats vs. The Republicans.
The wretched-Liberals vs. the Noble Conservatives.
Evil Lex Luther vs, Superman
The Joker vs. Batman.
Befuddled Communist-Pelosi vs. Trump
Patton vs. Rommel
Do you understand the concept of enemy?
I consider you my ideological enemy (regardless of what you think about it}

JAG

``
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
False.
YOU are no authority on what is, or is not, proper answers.
YOU are not my Authority on anything.
Of course not.
False nonsense.
Here is the truth

Regarding your so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:

Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:

Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions.

Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.

Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.

Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to activist thread atheists
they will ALWAYS tell you that you have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support
your Christian propositions.

My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above impossible
situation, they will do exactly that.




False.


YOU stop whining.
YOU are a constant whiner.



I do not find it frustrating.
I give zero serious attention to what you say because you are my ideological enemy.
Deep down I know that you are the ideological enemy of Christianity in spite of any
claims you have to the contrary
.
Not only the ideological enemy but also the factual enemy. You believe irrationally and make irrational claims based on your irrational beliefs. I'm merely challenging you on it. You lack a rational response; of course you don't like it.
YOU are NOT the Authority on what is, or is not reality.
YOU do NOT tell me how I need to write my posts to line up with YOUR concept
of reality.
YOU are my ideological enemy.
Do you understand the concept of enemy?
Yes, knowledge is the enemy of belief.
Do you understand the following?
The Communist-Democrats vs. The Republicans.
The wretched-Liberals vs. the Noble Conservatives.
Evil Lex Luther vs, Superman
The Joker vs. Batman.
Befuddled Communist-Pelosi vs. Trump
Patton vs. Rommel
Do you understand the concept of enemy?
I consider you my ideological enemy (regardless of what you think about it}

JAG

``
Irrational vs rational. belief is irrational.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
Jag,
You have an emotional connection to your beliefs and this represents a handicap regarding truth.
Ask yourself this: does your truth offer anything practically useful?
For example, the idea that water boils at 212F is idea that happens to be true and can be tested. As such, the knowledge that water boils and the knowledge that water boils at a particular temperature is meaningful and useful information that can be used.
I challenge that your beliefs offer nothing useful outside of your imagination. Please respond to that challenge if you're able.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
No you do not begin with what is known, you figure it out what you dont know as you go. Love is known, Love is not a belief at all, God is Love, just as Mars is known, but you cant get there no more than you can get to Mars without effort.

That is because you were seeking the moon mistaking it for Mars. You didnt follow the path to mars and landed on the moon instead, that is why it never became a reality, you looked in the wrong place and because you didnt follow to the end gave up. and made an assumption with no reality instead.



I was atheist and from pure curiosity and research, I found out God is not what these portreyed Him to be, He simply is Love noting more or anything less than. Religious folk will beg to differ. These have no reality of God, they are waiting for a man to come as god and cant relate to God who is love manifest in them to have that same disposition.

Not at all, it is the reality of the manifestation of. Belief is only speculation goverened by law.


Christ i not a person at all, Christ is the dicposition of the person who is anointed of Gods Love to walk as He walks in it.
Christ means Gods anointed one and either you are or you are not anointed by Love as your own mind.



Denominations are notorious for this, making claims they cant back up. The only reality of God is if you are like Him, every thing else is is only a belief, speculation about Him. You know very well if you are like Him or not just as these other religious folk do. And yes you are religious for you have made your own laws to govern god just as these do. Just different laws to regulate your beliefs of a god. You know if you have a mind that is motivated by Love. Holy Love or Holy Spirit as the bible calls it. God is a SPirit that SPirit is Love and man is the temple of. Really simple.


No I do not believe God exists. Again beliefs are spawn from speculation. the reality of God is I am like Him, has His same disposition that of Love. manifest in me.

And you are guilty of the very same thing as these. Just as with these you have made your own laws to regulate your beliefs.
As far as sin, If you have Love as your disposition there is no room for sin at all. Sin is seperation from the God of Love.


And just as with you -- you are no different from these you can believe anything about Him.
Romans kept very good historical records of events, people in governemt, persicutions and such. There is no mention of a man named Jesus except one small mention of the name. If Jesus had stirred people and Rome to the capacity that is portreyed in the bible seems to me the Romans would have written volums about it dont ya thinK?
Did Jesus exist? There no more proof than I can prove man went to Moon. All I have of man on the moon is what others said about it. SOme say it was all fabricated, that is their beliefs. The only way that I could know the truth is to go there myself, until then all I can do is believe or reject what others said about it. Jesus is no difference, but I can tell you that from what was quoted of him what he said of himself and his relationship to God, I can identify with the same. It is no longer a belief open for specualtion and opinion, it is who I am. for I have been to that same place.

One cant assume himself to be in a certain condition that he never has been in.
Upon further reading, I may have responded too quickly to your post and for that I apologize.

If God is love (or Love) what is the need for God? Love is love. A loving disposition is a loving disposition, What is the need to attach God to it?
 

JAG

Active member
Of course not.

Not only the ideological enemy but also the factual enemy. You believe irrationally and make irrational claims based on your irrational beliefs. I'm merely challenging you on it. You lack a rational response; of course you don't like it.

Yes, knowledge is the enemy of belief.

Irrational vs rational. belief is irrational.
Your beliefs are irrational. See Psalm 14:1
You are not the Authority on what is, or is not factual.
You are not the Authority on what is, or is not rational.
You are not the Authority on what is, or in not knowledge.
You do not know what I like or do not like.

JAG
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
Your beliefs are irrational. See Psalm 14:1
You are not the Authority on what is, or is not factual.
You are not the Authority on what is, or is not rational.
You are not the Authority on what is, or in not knowledge.
You do not know what I like or do not like.

JAG
You are the one with beliefs, I don't believe.
I have knowledge, you lack knowledge. I suppose that makes me a bit more of an authority than you. I even have knowledge of your beliefs that you lack. I know that your beliefs are irrational (by definition of beliefs) and that your beliefs have no bearing (no affect) on anything outside of your imagination. This is different from my example of boiling water; the idea is useful and can be tested outside of our imaginations and the result is boiled water.
 

JAG

Active member
You are the one with beliefs, I don't believe.
False.
And false nonsense too.
You have many beliefs in your secular moral code that you can not
demonstrate to be true using Empirical evidences. You believe them
to be true even though you can NOT demonstrate them to be true.

So?

So you are a man of faith just like all other human beings are men of faith.

I have knowledge, you lack knowledge.
False.
And you are not an authority on who has, or does not have knowledge.
You seriously lack knowledge ~ ~ see Psalm 14:1

I suppose that makes me a bit more of an authority than you.
False nonsense.
Psalm 14:1


JAG

PS

This below describes your plan perfectly:

Regarding your so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:

Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:

Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions.

Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.

Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.

Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to activist thread atheists
they will ALWAYS tell you that you have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support
your Christian propositions.

My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above impossible
situation, they will do exactly that.



``


``
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
False.
And false nonsense too.
You have many beliefs in your secular moral code that you can not
demonstrate to be true using Empirical evidences. You believe them
to be true even though you can NOT demonstrate them to be true.
I do not.
So?

So you are a man of faith just like all other human beings are men of faith.
I lack faith.
False.
And you are not an authority on who has, or does not have knowledge.
You seriously lack knowledge ~ ~ see Psalm 14:1

False nonsense.
Psalm 14:1


JAG

PS

This below describes your plan perfectly:

Regarding your so-called "circular reasoning" fallacy:

Here is what I have found to be true after years & years on the
worldwide web. Activist thread-atheists will do all they can to
"shut down" and/or ridicule the presentation of Bible truths --
and they have a plan to get that done:

Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions.

Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.

Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.

Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to activist thread atheists
they will ALWAYS tell you that you have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support
your Christian propositions.

My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above impossible
situation, they will do exactly that.



``


``
Christians cannot support their beliefs and whine when challenged to demonstrate that their "truths" are meaningful outside of their imaginations.
Yours is an impossible position to defend. When you make preposterous claims, expect to be challenged. If you don't like that, don't make preposterous claims.
 

JAG

Active member
I do not.
False. You DO.
I lack faith.
False.
You know there is a God and you deliberately "suppress" that knowledge.
God says you do in the Bible and I have complete confidence in what God says
and absolutely rock-bottom zero confidence in anything YOU say
.

Romans 1:18
Romans 1:18 says that humans "suppress the truth." Atheists
are part of humanity, so Romans 1:18 applies to them also.

Romans 2:15 , , ,
Romans 2:15 says the requirements of the Laws of God are
"written on their hearts." So all men know there is a God that
created them.


Romans 1:19-20
Romans 1:19-20 says "since what may be known about
God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to
them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible
qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have
been clearly seen, being understood from what has
been made, so that people are without excuse."

Note the particulars in Romans 1:19-20
{1) There is information that can be known about God.
{2} This information is plain to men.
{3} God Himself has made it plain to them.
{4} It has been plain to them since the creation of the world.
{5} God's eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen
{6} All this in understood from what God created.
{7} Therefore men are without excuse {for not believing in God.}

Romans 1:19-20 is the germ principle of the Teleological Argument
for the existence of God -- the argument from the Intelligent Design
of the Human Person, the Earth-Sun-Moon-Stars, and the Universe.


Christians cannot support their beliefs
False.
And total nonsense too.
You do not know what you are talking, about, yet you post on and on anyway.
Here is a list of some of Christendom's top apologists -- and they defend
the Christian faith very well.


  1. Norm Geisler:
  2. William Lane Craig:
  3. Ravi Zacharias:
  4. John Lennox:
  5. Greg Koukl:
  6. J. Warner Wallace:
  7. Paul Copan:
  8. Ed Feser:
  9. Lee Strobel:
  10. Josh McDowell:
  11. - - - - -
  12. C.S. Lewis:
  13. Gary Habermas:
  14. Timothy McGrew:
  15. Dr. Michael Brown:
  16. Richard Howe:
  17. Tim Keller:
  18. J. Budziszewski:
  19. Hank Hanegraaff:
  20. Hugh Ross:
My view is that if YOU, the "bigthinker" had to go toe to toe
with say William Lane Craig
in front of a live university audience,
for 3 hours, you would be howled out of the room in less
than 30
minutes.



and whine
You are one of the biggest whiners in this thread, You whine constantly
when challenged to demonstrate that their "truths" are meaningful outside of their imaginations.
Who do you think you are?
I have zero obligation to respond to YOUR so-called "challenges"
Go find somebody that wants to talk to you.


Yours is an impossible position to defend.
False nonsense.
The Christian position has been defended quite well.
Moreover YOU are not the Authority on what is, or is not, a valid defense.



When you make preposterous claims, expect to be challenged.
If you don't like that, don't make preposterous claims.
You are not the Authority on what is, or is not, a preposterous claim.
And I pay zero attention to your so-called "challenges"
And I will make all the claims I want to make and what are YOU going to
do about it? Except "run your keyboard"?

On YOUR lights I would have to present Empirical evidences that SATISFIED YOU
before I could even present John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave
His one and only Son that whoever believes in Him might not perish but have
Eternal Life"
, , , so just who do YOU think you are? You don't have the Power or the Authority
to enforce upon me your false atheist beliefs about how to post.
YOU post like YOU want to -- and I will do the same.


JAG

``
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
False. You DO.

False.
You know there is a God and you deliberately "suppress" that knowledge.
God says you do in the Bible and I have complete confidence in what God says
and absolutely rock-bottom zero confidence in anything YOU say
.

Romans 1:18
Romans 1:18 says that humans "suppress the truth." Atheists
are part of humanity, so Romans 1:18 applies to them also.

Romans 2:15 , , ,
Romans 2:15 says the requirements of the Laws of God are
"written on their hearts." So all men know there is a God that
created them.


Romans 1:19-20
Romans 1:19-20 says "since what may be known about
God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to
them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible
qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have
been clearly seen, being understood from what has
been made, so that people are without excuse."

Note the particulars in Romans 1:19-20
{1) There is information that can be known about God.
{2} This information is plain to men.
{3} God Himself has made it plain to them.
{4} It has been plain to them since the creation of the world.
{5} God's eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen
{6} All this in understood from what God created.
{7} Therefore men are without excuse {for not believing in God.}

Romans 1:19-20 is the germ principle of the Teleological Argument
for the existence of God -- the argument from the Intelligent Design
of the Human Person, the Earth-Sun-Moon-Stars, and the Universe.


False.
And total nonsense too.
You do not know what you are talking, about, yet you post on and on anyway.
Here is a list of some of Christendom's top apologists -- and they defend
the Christian faith very well.


  1. Norm Geisler:
  2. William Lane Craig:
  3. Ravi Zacharias:
  4. John Lennox:
  5. Greg Koukl:
  6. J. Warner Wallace:
  7. Paul Copan:
  8. Ed Feser:
  9. Lee Strobel:
  10. Josh McDowell:
  11. - - - - -
  12. C.S. Lewis:
  13. Gary Habermas:
  14. Timothy McGrew:
  15. Dr. Michael Brown:
  16. Richard Howe:
  17. Tim Keller:
  18. J. Budziszewski:
  19. Hank Hanegraaff:
  20. Hugh Ross:
My view is that if YOU, the "bigthinker" had to go toe to toe
with say William Lane Craig
in front of a live university audience,
for 3 hours, you would be howled out of the room in less
than 30
minutes.




You are one of the biggest whiners in this thread, You whine constantly

Who do you think you are?
I have zero obligation to respond to YOUR so-called "challenges"
Go find somebody that wants to talk to you.


False nonsense.
The Christian position has been defended quite well.
Moreover YOU are not the Authority on what is, or is not, a valid defense.



You are not the Authority on what is, or is not, a preposterous claim.
And I pay zero attention to your so-called "challenges"
And I will make all the claims I want to make and what are YOU going to
do about it? Except "run your keyboard"?

On YOUR lights I would have to present Empirical evidences that SATISFIED YOU
before I could even present John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave
His one and only Son that whoever believes in Him might not perish but have
Eternal Life"
, , , so just who do YOU think you are? You don't have the Power or the Authority
to enforce upon me your false atheist beliefs about how to post.
YOU post like YOU want to -- and I will do the same.


JAG

``
This is disingenuous of you. I'm sorry if the topic is too difficult or if it requires an additional amount of maturity -I mean no disrespect but since you have been disrespectful to me, I see no reason to continue this discussion.
You fail to make your case and are satisfied with repeating the same unsupported assertions over and over again.
Just so I know for future reference, is this the extent of your ability to discuss such issues? If yes, I will avoid engaging you.
Cheers.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Upon further reading, I may have responded too quickly to your post and for that I apologize.

If God is love (or Love) what is the need for God? Love is love. A loving disposition is a loving disposition, What is the need to attach God to it?
Love is a setting aside ones own desires to help the need of another giving up the right to yourself, giving up your life for a another.
One says he is of love then kills his neighbor. One says he loves this country then goes out to destroy it.
Love is thrown around quite liberally without any substance or evidence at all that one has the disposition of. I Love you goes only as far as the lips, going out of my way to actually try and help one in need is from the heart not just lip service.

Is God Love? He is if Love rules over ones mind to walk in it as He walks in it. Everyone worships a god in one form or another. there are many of them but only one of Love.
I know you wont see this but I see it for the rules and regulations you have expressed to regulate your beliefs of a god you develloped and comment about it yourself. Your god is you, it is your own intellect that you trust without any substance at all that you accuse others of. You are doing the very same as the ones you accuse.

Have you not made your own ruels there is no God? Im not sure that you know that gods are spirits and there are many of them. In reality the one that you have developed and worship is of your own creation. You expresse your beliefs of your god over and over by the rules you have set for that belief. You ave made a mindset of belief that there is no god

Note -- Beliefs has no substance at all do they? Is that not a quote from you? Is not that your belief? You cant prove to me at all there is no god no more than I can prove to you there is. A depraved mind is unable to learn of something unfamiliar. Worse is not trying. You are as the ones sitting in a pew sunday after sunday and gone into spiritual retirement with no efforet to advance into that what they dont understand. They just accept their own beliefs and end of story. No exerciesing the brain at all where there just might be someting out there they are ignorant of. A closed mind not will to learen anything new.
 
Last edited:

JAG

Active member
This is disingenuous of you.
False.
You are not the authority on who is, or is not, disingenuous.
I am well aware of the little games that atheists play in threads and I have no intention
of playing your little "You Lose-I Win" game.

I'm sorry if the topic is too difficult or if it requires an additional amount of maturity
Be sorry all you want, I am in no mood to play the following game with you:

Atheists Plans , , ,
Plan # 1 is to intimidate you to NOT post Bible verses as your
proof to back up your propositions.

Plan # 2 is to DEMAND that you supply Empirical proof and evidences
to prove your Christian propositions.

Plan # 3 is to ALWAYS declare whatever evidence you present to be
insufficient to prove your Christian propositions.

Net results? The net results is no matter what you present to activist thread atheists
they will ALWAYS tell you that you have failed to provide sufficient evidences to support
your Christian propositions.

My view is that if you allow them to "jerk you around" with the above impossible
situation, they will do exactly that.




- I see no reason to continue this discussion.
Good.
By the way, what discussion?
It has been mostly you telling me what I could and could not do with regard to posting -- as if YOU
were
The Authority on that.
It has been mostly you trying to set and control the rules of what can and can not be said in posting.

Just so I know for future reference, is this the extent of your ability to discuss such issues? If yes, I will avoid engaging you.
Sounds good to me.
You are my ideological enemy and my view is that you
have zero intention of giving any serious consideration
to any arguments Christians present.


JAG

Bible Verse For Today.

"At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit,
said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth,
because you have hidden these things from the wise
and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes,
Father, for this is what you were pleased to do."
__The Lord Jesus Luke 10:21

``
 
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