There is only One true gospel !

York

Active member
I rest my case with you.

You can't tell us when Abraham looked to Christ's day - only that at some point he did.

You assume he was looking to Christ's day at the time he believed God.

You need to assume this in order for your "believe in Jesus Christ else you cannot be saved" theology to stand.

I rest my case.
 

York

Active member
Who agrees or disagrees ?

There is One God
There is One Lord
There is One Faith
There is One Baptism
There is One Jesus
There is only One way to God
There is One Savior

And there is One Gospel

Galatians 1:6
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

So since there is only One God, One Savior, One way to God through Christ, One faith, One baptism and One Gospel- there is only one way to be saved.

Paul defines that Gospel by which we are saved below:

1 Corinthians 15:1-19
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

Only One way to be saved, by One Person, One Gospel and One Faith. In Him alone. Scripture is really very exclusive here but inclusive to all that come to Him freely!

And Paul received this gospel directly from Christ by personal revelation

Galatians 1:11-12
I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

This gospel is Eternal !

Revelation 14:6
Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation and tribe and tongue and people

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus passed on the gospel to His Disciples. Its the same Gospel but Christ had not suffered, died, risen yet. The disciples didn't understand the Passion until after His Resurrection, they were in denial.

Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.” — John 13:7,19

After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. John 2:22

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. — Matthew 16:21

Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!” — Matthew 20:17-19

After His Resurrection

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. — Luke 24:25-27

He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.Luke 24:44-45

Are you teaching others the one true Gospel ?

Ones salvation depends upon the one true gospel !

hope this helps !!!
One problem here is that there's a wall of text. The one true gospel is in there apparently.
Who agrees or disagrees ?

There is One God
There is One Lord
There is One Faith
There is One Baptism
There is One Jesus
There is only One way to God
There is One Savior

And there is One Gospel

Ones salvation depends upon the one true gospel !

"One true gospel". Now there is a problematic one - how to encapsulate the entire gospel (in the sense of the gospel being described in words).



"Believe God"

.. seems to be the surest and safest summation. Anymore than that appears to be a reach, a projection of your understanding and possibly an arrogance?

Gal 3, for instance, has Paul describing the gospel working because they believed what they heard. He ties in their believing what they heard with Abraham's believing what he heard (which, I note, is described as the gospel, even though Christ isn't named to Abraham).

What they heard and what Abraham heard wasn't the same thing. But what they and Abraham heard was from God and both they and Abraham believed what they heard.

And they were saved.

So, whilst it might stick the craw, the safest bet is a gospel distilled down to 'believe God'. To insist on anything else as 'exclusively' the gospel (such as "you must believe in Christ) is a stretch.

If the gospel without mention of the words 'Jesus Christ' was preached to and saved Abraham then there is no reason to suppose it can't save someone else.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You can't tell us when Abraham looked to Christ's day - only that at some point he did.

You assume he was looking to Christ's day at the time he believed God.

You need to assume this in order for your "believe in Jesus Christ else you cannot be saved" theology to stand.

I rest my case.
Yeah rest your case with me, because I have with you ! I have and others have shown you enough scripture.
 

civic

Well-known member
One problem here is that there's a wall of text. The one true gospel is in there apparently.


"One true gospel". Now there is a problematic one - how to encapsulate the entire gospel (in the sense of the gospel being described in words).



"Believe God"

.. seems to be the surest and safest summation. Anymore than that appears to be a reach, a projection of your understanding and possibly an arrogance?

Gal 3, for instance, has Paul describing the gospel working because they believed what they heard. He ties in their believing what they heard with Abraham's believing what he heard (which, I note, is described as the gospel, even though Christ isn't named to Abraham).

What they heard and what Abraham heard wasn't the same thing. But what they and Abraham heard was from God and both they and Abraham believed what they heard.

And they were saved.

So, whilst it might stick the craw, the safest bet is a gospel distilled down to 'believe God'. To insist on anything else as 'exclusively' the gospel (such as "you must believe in Christ) is a stretch.

If the gospel without mention of the words 'Jesus Christ' was preached to and saved Abraham then there is no reason to suppose it can't save someone else.
Paul defines the One and Only gospel by which a person is saved in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 and declares in Galatians 1:6-9 any other gospel condemns the person, both the teacher and recipient of a false gospel is anathema.

hope this helps !!!
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Paul defines the One and Only gospel by which a person is saved in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 and declares in Galatians 1:6-9 any other gospel condemns the person, both the teacher and recipient of a false gospel is anathema.

hope this helps !!!
I would like to hear the Gospel from him; one day he will preach it, may as well be now. So far, all I've gathered from him is he's not as fond of the New Covenant as he should be...
 

civic

Well-known member
One problem here is that there's a wall of text. The one true gospel is in there apparently.


"One true gospel". Now there is a problematic one - how to encapsulate the entire gospel (in the sense of the gospel being described in words).



"Believe God"

.. seems to be the surest and safest summation. Anymore than that appears to be a reach, a projection of your understanding and possibly an arrogance?

Gal 3, for instance, has Paul describing the gospel working because they believed what they heard. He ties in their believing what they heard with Abraham's believing what he heard (which, I note, is described as the gospel, even though Christ isn't named to Abraham).

What they heard and what Abraham heard wasn't the same thing. But what they and Abraham heard was from God and both they and Abraham believed what they heard.

And they were saved.

So, whilst it might stick the craw, the safest bet is a gospel distilled down to 'believe God'. To insist on anything else as 'exclusively' the gospel (such as "you must believe in Christ) is a stretch.

If the gospel without mention of the words 'Jesus Christ' was preached to and saved Abraham then there is no reason to suppose it can't save someone else.
Can you define what you consider the gospel ?

What are the essential elements of the gospel that you share with a person and they become saved by that message/gospel ?
 

civic

Well-known member
And when a person comes here with a curious sounding gospel, I notice that it's always the Calvinists here who are most concerned about it. We love our Lord's Gospel...
Amen to that its easy to snuff out a false gospel and a false christ with a few simple questions.
 

York

Active member
Paul defines the One and Only gospel by which a person is saved in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 and declares in Galatians 1:6-9 any other gospel condemns the person, both the teacher and recipient of a false gospel is anathema.

hope this helps !!!
I think your missing the point. Paul is dealing with a problem. He has preached one thing (Christ risen) and there is this other notion going around (Christ hasn't risen). If someone preaches that then it is indeed false.

But to say that 1 Cor 15 1-8 is the gospel defined would be incorrect. There is nothing in there about salvation being by faith and not works. Surely salvation being by faith is an important part of the gospel you believe in?



Can you define what you consider the gospel ?

What are the essential elements of the gospel that you share with a person and they become saved by that message/gospel ?

Firstly, I don't think the gospel is defined nicely and neatly for us. We have, as I have been saying, this issue of Abraham being the father of our faith. His case is therefore, fundamental to our search for what the bones of the gospel is. When we look at this case we find little of what might be called a classic understanding of the gospel.

There is no reference to Christ in the gospel preached to him (and I reject as worfully weak, attempts to shoehorn his having looked forward to the day of Christ as a device to make his believing God = his belief in Christ dying for his sins and the like).

There is no reference indeed to anything spiritually weighty at all. The mere matter of the lack of a physical heir is all we can discern in his case.

Nevertheless, the gospel (as in the provision of the gospel) is applied to Abraham through akd because of his faith expression. Christ's righteousness is applied to him and, I see no reason to suppose otherwise, he is born again, his old man dying. Etc. Etc.

So the gospel as we know it is applied and does work in Abrahams case just like it works in our case. Our knowing more of the precise workings and Abraham's not knowing of its workings is neither here nor there. A cat doesn't have to know why a car bonnet us a warm place to rest in order to avail of it's warmth.

As for how I'd 'share'. Sure, I'd talk of Christ - since the workings are known now so why not.

But my focus would be on the underlying message, not only in Abrahams case but in the multitude of examples given, especially in the new testament. To me the message is simple and drumbeat:

1. You were born into the self-directed path. You and everyone around you directs their own life

2. That path leads people into trouble: sickness, poverty, psychological pain, addiction, wrecking the planet, war, misery, loneliness. It leads some people to the point where they are in agony and know not how to escape it. They simply cannot bear it anymore

3. If you are one of those people, then I tell you (having been there just like Abraham, the thief on the cross, the leper, the traitorous and reviled Jewish tax collector, the woman caught in adultery) then the solution is this.

4. If you now believe, having tried everything to solve your own problem (you'd want to see the lengths Abraham went to!), that there is no escape under heaven you can devise to release you from your agony then the only option is God.

5. God promises to release you. You don't have to understand how he'll do this but he will. If you believe that only he can release you and you ask him to, from the place of conviction regarding your hopelessness. If you fully and finally recant of the self directed life, then he will release you.

6. For if you are convinced that your self directed life has led you only into misery then you believe God. For it is God who has, by allowimg you to self direct your life and who has brought you to your knees amd to this conviction of yours. And it is God, who has installed in you (conscience and the knowledge of good and evil) the means whereby you are now convinced that both you and the world are hopeless cases, evil, bent and corrupt.

If you are convinced, like Abraham was convinced, that the self directed life just can't meet your need then you believe God.

And that will be credited to you as righteousness.

Something along those lines at any rate 😜
 

civic

Well-known member
I think your missing the point. Paul is dealing with a problem. He has preached one thing (Christ risen) and there is this other notion going around (Christ hasn't risen). If someone preaches that then it is indeed false.

But to say that 1 Cor 15 1-8 is the gospel defined would be incorrect. There is nothing in there about salvation being by faith and not works. Surely salvation being by faith is an important part of the gospel you believe in?





Firstly, I don't think the gospel is defined nicely and neatly for us. We have, as I have been saying, this issue of Abraham being the father of our faith. His case is therefore, fundamental to our search for what the bones of the gospel is. When we look at this case we find little of what might be called a classic understanding of the gospel.

There is no reference to Christ in the gospel preached to him (and I reject as worfully weak, attempts to shoehorn his having looked forward to the day of Christ as a device to make his believing God = his belief in Christ dying for his sins and the like).

There is no reference indeed to anything spiritually weighty at all. The mere matter of the lack of a physical heir is all we can discern in his case.

Nevertheless, the gospel (as in the provision of the gospel) is applied to Abraham through akd because of his faith expression. Christ's righteousness is applied to him and, I see no reason to suppose otherwise, he is born again, his old man dying. Etc. Etc.

So the gospel as we know it is applied and does work in Abrahams case just like it works in our case. Our knowing more of the precise workings and Abraham's not knowing of its workings is neither here nor there. A cat doesn't have to know why a car bonnet us a warm place to rest in order to avail of it's warmth.

As for how I'd 'share'. Sure, I'd talk of Christ - since the workings are known now so why not.

But my focus would be on the underlying message, not only in Abrahams case but in the multitude of examples given, especially in the new testament. To me the message is simple and drumbeat:

1. You were born into the self-directed path. You and everyone around you directs their own life

2. That path leads people into trouble: sickness, poverty, psychological pain, addiction, wrecking the planet, war, misery, loneliness. It leads some people to the point where they are in agony and know not how to escape it. They simply cannot bear it anymore

3. If you are one of those people, then I tell you (having been there just like Abraham, the thief on the cross, the leper, the traitorous and reviled Jewish tax collector, the woman caught in adultery) then the solution is this.

4. If you now believe, having tried everything to solve your own problem (you'd want to see the lengths Abraham went to!), that there is no escape under heaven you can devise to release you from your agony then the only option is God.

5. God promises to release you. You don't have to understand how he'll do this but he will. If you believe that only he can release you and you ask him to, from the place of conviction regarding your hopelessness. If you fully and finally recant of the self directed life, then he will release you.

6. For if you are convinced that your self directed life has led you only into misery then you believe God. For it is God who has, by allowimg you to self direct your life and who has brought you to your knees amd to this conviction of yours. And it is God, who has installed in you (conscience and the knowledge of good and evil) the means whereby you are now convinced that both you and the world are hopeless cases, evil, bent and corrupt.

If you are convinced, like Abraham was convinced, that the self directed life just can't meet your need then you believe God.

And that will be credited to you as righteousness.

Something along those lines at any rate 😜
Well you are wrong as Paul defines the gospel below.

1 Corinthians 15:1-19
Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them — yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

So above we read Paul defines the GOSPEL by which we are saved ( 1 Corinthians 15:2)

1- Christ dies for our sins according to the scriptures
2- He was buried and raised/resurrected on the 3rd day according to the scriptures
3- Jesus appeared (resurrected bodily as he expounds upon the rest of the chapter) to many people over a period of time
4- Jesus last of all appeared to Paul- whom he received his gospel from- Jesus Himself( cf Galatians 1:12 below)

1 Corinthians 1:17-25
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel — not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;

the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.


2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Galatians 1:6-12
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

hope this helps !!!
 

York

Active member
Well you are wrong as Paul defines the gospel below.
Lets first state that this is your contention. That Paul is giving a definitive definition of the gospel.
1 Corinthians 15:1-19
Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them — yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

So above we read Paul defines the GOSPEL by which we are saved ( 1 Corinthians 15:2)
Paul, as I say, is contending with a false gospel. He is highlighting areas of falseness by pointing out the truth.

To preach another gospel isn't to say another true slant on the gospel is false. Rather, to state otherwise something he has said would be false.

If I preach another slant on the true gospel, one that doesn't confound the true gospel (which I don't believe I do) then it is not a false gospel.

You err in forgetting Pauls aim.

Anyway, the gospel preached Abraham. No mention of Christ, but a slant on the gospel of Christ. The gospel preached to Abraham false because it doesn't conform to your belief as to definition.

You.might deal with Abraham?




1- Christ dies for our sins according to the scriptures
2- He was buried and raised/resurrected on the 3rd day according to the scriptures
3- Jesus appeared (resurrected bodily as he expounds upon the rest of the chapter) to many people over a period of time
4- Jesus last of all appeared to Paul- whom he received his gospel from- Jesus Himself( cf Galatians 1:12 below)
By faith? Is that not part of your gospel?
1 Corinthians 1:17-25
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel — not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;

the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.


2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Galatians 1:6-12
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

hope this helps !!!
I'm was under the impression the gospel was being defined in 1 Cor 15 1-8. There is no mention of by faith is this 'definition'. Do you want to maintain this a solid definition?
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
I think your missing the point. Paul is dealing with a problem. He has preached one thing (Christ risen) and there is this other notion going around (Christ hasn't risen). If someone preaches that then it is indeed false.

But to say that 1 Cor 15 1-8 is the gospel defined would be incorrect. There is nothing in there about salvation being by faith and not works. Surely salvation being by faith is an important part of the gospel you believe in?
You also win T-shirt!!! Congrats!!! ;)

 

civic

Well-known member
Lets first state that this is your contention. That Paul is giving a definitive definition of the gospel.

Paul, as I say, is contending with a false gospel. He is highlighting areas of falseness by pointing out the truth.

To preach another gospel isn't to say another true slant on the gospel is false. Rather, to state otherwise something he has said would be false.

If I preach another slant on the true gospel, one that doesn't confound the true gospel (which I don't believe I do) then it is not a false gospel.

You err in forgetting Pauls aim.

Anyway, the gospel preached Abraham. No mention of Christ, but a slant on the gospel of Christ. The gospel preached to Abraham false because it doesn't conform to your belief as to definition.

You.might deal with Abraham?





By faith? Is that not part of your gospel?

I'm was under the impression the gospel was being defined in 1 Cor 15 1-8. There is no mention of by faith is this 'definition'. Do you want to maintain this a solid definition?
Paul is not contending with a false gospel in 1 Cor 15:1-8. Where do you find that idea ?

Later in the chapter he talks about those who say the dead are not raised and deals with that false teaching but in the verses 1-8 Paul is defining what the gospel is and its content.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Paul is not contending with a false gospel in 1 Cor 15:1-8. Where do you find that idea ?

Later in the chapter he talks about those who say the dead are not raised and deals with that false teaching but in the verses 1-8 Paul is defining what the gospel is and its content.
If Paul is as he says "pointing out the truth" of the gospel, how is it that the gospel isn't in that passage?

Can people get any more asinine in their quarreling?
 

York

Active member
Paul is not contending with a false gospel in 1 Cor 15:1-8. Where do you find that idea ?

Later in the chapter he talks about those who say the dead are not raised and deals with that false teaching but in the verses 1-8 Paul is defining what the gospel is and its content.
Paul (as Marty will soon enlighten you on) lays out his case "forensically" . There is no wiggle room - a least not big enough to drive your idea through

He starts out this chapter laying out a very specific aspect of the gospel - the death and resurrection of Christ. He doesn't mention salvation by faith and not works so this cannot be a gospel definition.

At vs 12 he starts with a "But". Marty will (in his exposition of Romans) highlight that this is linking what is now going to say with what he has been saying up to now.

What he deals with from v12 is the contention that Christ didn't rise from the dead. And he lays out the consequences of that: him made a liar of, what with his gospel saying Christ rose, their faith being worthless without Christ rising. Etc

That is Paul's purpose: a focus on an aspect of the gospel, to counter a false gospel which says Christ did not rise.
 
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