There should be no doubt in the means by which God is known to the believer.

Tercon

Well-known member
Believers don't doubt the means by which the truth and reality are made known to them, that foolishness is just reserved for the unbeliever.
And such deceit would make the believer as ignorant of the truth and reality as unbelievers are. Since as believers we know how and why the truth and reality of God is made known to us, and it is just unbelievers who are racked with doubt about the mode by which the truth and reality are made known to anyone wanting to believe the truth and reality.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Believers don't doubt the means by which the truth and reality are made known to them, that foolishness is just reserved for the unbeliever.
And such deceit would make the believer as ignorant of the truth and reality as unbelievers are. Since as believers we know how and why the truth and reality of God is made known to us, and it is just unbelievers who are racked with doubt about the mode by which the truth and reality are made known to anyone wanting to believe the truth and reality.
Except, you're the only person who believes this.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Prove it.

I am a believer and I do not doubt the means by which God makes His truth and reality known to me.

How can you know the truth and reality by doubting the very means by which it is made known to us? That's like quitting before you even get started in life, it is like accepting psychosis as a life's goal.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Believers don't doubt the means by which the truth and reality are made known to them, that foolishness is just reserved for the unbeliever.
And such deceit would make the believer as ignorant of the truth and reality as unbelievers are. Since as believers we know how and why the truth and reality of God is made known to us, and it is just unbelievers who are racked with doubt about the mode by which the truth and reality are made known to anyone wanting to believe the truth and reality.
Believers may not doubt the means by which they believe the truth and reality are made known to them, but they don't know that those means exist. They just believe them without proof.

Believers don't believe in the world as presented. They add something that isn't the truth of reality. Therefor believers do not believe in the truth of reality.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Believers may not doubt the means by which they believe the truth and reality are made known to them, but they don't know that those means exist. They just believe them without proof.

If "believers may not doubt the means by which they believe the truth and reality are made known to them", then believers know that in their belief and believing minds exist in God's reality, because they believe God's believing mind and our own is now reality too. That is one of the benefits of being a child of God, we get to participate and partake of His reality.

Believers don't believe in the world as presented. They add something that isn't the truth of reality. Therefor believers do not believe in the truth of reality.

Actually believers believe that the truth and reality are ONLY knowable to them in and with their believing minds. And not in the weakness of materialism and physical senses. But rather that's just how animals experience their existence. But it isn't how humans are supposed to experience the truth and reality. Understand?
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
The truth and reality doesn't rely on consensus for its validity and logicality silly.
Generally speaking, I agree. But when everyone is telling you you are wrong from both sides of the debate, there's more than a small chance it's you not them. No one agrees with you and you don't even understand why.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Generally speaking, I agree. But when everyone is telling you you are wrong from both sides of the debate, there's more than a small chance it's you not them. No one agrees with you and you don't even understand why.

I understand why you are both wrong. There are two kinds of unbelievers, atheists and religious people. Both disbelieve and deny the very means by which God has chosen to make His truth and reality known to believers.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
I understand why you are both wrong. There are two kinds of unbelievers, atheists and religious people. Both disbelieve and deny the very means by which God has chosen to make His truth and reality known to believers.
You really don't. The point is no one, not Christian or atheist buys your argument. They can see clearly why its flawed. Only you can't.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Believers don't doubt the means by which the truth and reality are made known to them, that foolishness is just reserved for the unbeliever. And such deceit would make the believer as ignorant of the truth and reality as unbelievers are. Since as believers we know how and why the truth and reality of God is made known to us, and it is just unbelievers who are racked with doubt about the mode by which the truth and reality are made known to anyone wanting to believe the truth and reality.
I'm not racked by doubt, and you're not qualified to speak for all believers, given that no Christians agree with any of your arguments. Your complete ignorance of epistemology also means you're not qualified to speak of how things are known to you or anyone else. Your blind belief-worship is not knowledge.
 

5wize

Well-known member
If "believers may not doubt the means by which they believe the truth and reality are made known to them", then believers know that in their belief and believing minds exist in God's reality, because they believe God's believing mind and our own is now reality too. That is one of the benefits of being a child of God, we get to participate and partake of His reality.

Actually believers believe that the truth and reality are ONLY knowable to them in and with their believing minds. And not in the weakness of materialism and physical senses. But rather that's just how animals experience their existence. But it isn't how humans are supposed to experience the truth and reality. Understand?
Change the word know up above to think. Believers only think that in their belief and believing minds exist in God's reality. Believers therefor do not believe in the truth of reality. They cannot accept it even thought every method they ever tried to affect an outcome based on what they thought they knew failed miserably.

That is the proof that Christians do not know what the truth of reality is. From the opening chapter of the Bible to its end we see charted an experiment in attempting to understand and manipulate something. Throw a lamb on the pit, beseech, pray, create law, adhere to law, predict, explore, sacrifice, believe... all to no avail. They eventually had to abandon the entire thing and instead of drop all their bad premises, invent some world, some Kingdom to Come, out of reach of any experiment and therefor unassailable by the truth of reality and throw all the theories forward into that unexplorable space so you can maintain all of your bad premises, keep them intact, safely tucked away from critique other than the critique that you made the whole thing up..

Christian belief is a testament to failure in ALL of its premises to know the truth of reality.
 
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