There should be no doubt in the means by which God is known to the believer.

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
That "rant" you are referring to is a refutation of your silly conjuring you bluff.

When I say that the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist is in and with a believing mind, I mean if the ONLY way and place the truth and reality can be known to exist is "in and with a believing mind", then why isn't that "known" to you silly? And since it is "only a believing mind can know that the truth and reality exist", then why don't you know the truth and reality can't be known to exist anywhere else? And because you can't show another way or place outside of a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known to exist, then this just adds to the strength of the claim. And you denying this just makes you look mentally incompetent to answer any question in regards to the truth or reality.
Completely non-responsive and I'm not interested in your insults.

Can you answer my question?

Do you understand that the following two statements mean two very different things?

a) only a believing mind can know that the truth and reality exist.
b) the truth and reality exist in and with a believing mind, which fact can be known.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Completely non-responsive and I'm not interested in your insults.

Can you answer my question?

Already answered, you just cannot deal with what's be said to you, so you pretend it hasn't been answered.

Do you understand that the following two statements mean two very different things?

a) only a believing mind can know that the truth and reality exist.

If outside of or without a believing the truth and reality is unknowable, then where else outside of a believing mind can the truth and reality be knowable?

b) the truth and reality exist in and with a believing mind, which fact can be known.

If "the truth and reality exist in and with a believing mind", then where else can the truth and reality be made known to you outside of a believing mind?
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Already answered, you just cannot deal with what's be said to you, so you pretend it hasn't been answered.
You have not answered and have not even tried to answer my question. Here it is again:

Do you understand that the following two statements mean two very different things?

a) only a believing mind can know that the truth and reality exist.
b) the truth and reality exist in and with a believing mind, which fact can be known.

If outside of or without a believing the truth and reality is unknowable, then where else outside of a believing mind can the truth and reality be knowable?
Ambiguous. Answer the question above.

If "the truth and reality exist in and with a believing mind", then where else can the truth and reality be made known to you outside of a believing mind?
Ambiguous. Answer the question above.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
You have not answered and have not even tried to answer my question. Here it is again:

Do you understand that the following two statements mean two very different things?

a) only a believing mind can know that the truth and reality exist.
b) the truth and reality exist in and with a believing mind, which fact can be known.
Ambiguous. Answer the question above.


Ambiguous. Answer the question above.

Sure I have. And I cannot help it if your atheism (unbelief) renders your mind ignorant of the truth and reality. The only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and be experienced is in and with a believing mind. You need to ask for the truth and reality to make itself known to you.
 

sbell

Active member
The only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and be experienced is in and with a believing mind. You need to ask for the truth and reality to make itself known to you.
That's pretty much what the Mormon's say when asked how they verify if what they believe is true. They describe as a burning in the bosom. If I'm to understand this correctly, the way to know if something is true is to believe it's true?
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
That's pretty much what the Mormon's say when asked how they verify if what they believe is true. They describe as a burning in the bosom. If I'm to understand this correctly, the way to know if something is true is to believe it's true?
What does your kult use for validation of truth?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
That's pretty much what the Mormon's say when asked how they verify if what they believe is true. They describe as a burning in the bosom. If I'm to understand this correctly, the way to know if something is true is to believe it's true?

Strawman.

If you can't know anything to be true or about reality without believing it, then belief must occur before the truth and reality is made known to you.

So, who's belief must occur first to make the truth and reality known to you?
 

sbell

Active member
Strawman.

If you can't know anything to be true or about reality without believing it, then belief must occur before the truth and reality is made known to you.

So, who's belief must occur first to make the truth and reality known to you?
The Mormon's belief.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
The Mormon's belief.

More strawmanning nonsense. If God's means of making His truth and reality of His Kingdom known to believers is all belief based, then God's belief must be what makes believers believe.

And if you disbelieve this, then how would you know about anything God does?
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
If you don't believe me, then you're an unbeliever.

You're not god, no matter how much you believe you are silly.
Believing the truth and reality of God makes one a believer and I hear neither truth nor reality from your silly conjuring.
 

sbell

Active member
You're not god, no matter how much you believe you are silly.
Believing the truth and reality of God makes one a believer and I hear neither truth nor reality from your silly conjuring.
Oh, well, I'm a deist, so I believe the truth and reality of god. Looking at the many manifestations of god presented through the ages, I'm just not sure which one is the best representation of god.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Oh, well, I'm a deist, so I believe the truth and reality of god. Looking at the many manifestations of god presented through the ages, I'm just not sure which one is the best representation of god.

Would any of these "many manifestations of god" involve you believing them?

Dude, I love that band, but I'm not them.

Well if anyone disbelieves belief is the only means by which God makes Himself known to us, then that unbelief would make one a unbeliever.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Sure, I believed the story of Allah, and that proved to me that Allah was real.

God is the truth and reality. And disbelieving God is the truth and reality would just make the unbeliever ignorant of the truth and reality of God.
 
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