They Are No Longer His Children Because They Are Blemished

Daniel.

Member
So, I've seen that people often misunderstand the idea of being "born again" or "children of God" as if it were something irreversible or immutable ("You can't become unborn, silly--similarly, you can't become 'not God's child'."); clearly, these people just need a little information to help them out of this misunderstanding on account of which they are spreading confusion in the Christian community.

Deuteronomy 31
1“You are the sons of the Lord your God.
Deuteronomy 32
5They have dealt corruptly with him;
they are no longer his children because they are blemished...

So, Jews are called God's children; later it's prophesied they will no longer be God's children.

Hosea 1
9And the Lord said, “Call his name Not My People, for you are not my people, and I am not your God.”
10Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And in the place where it was said to them, “You are not my people,” it shall be said to them, “Children of the living God.”

Deuteronomy 32's prophecy comes true: they're no longer God's children, and must become God's children in the future.

Romans 9
24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”


Paul says Hosea refers to Jews--ie, Jews, indeed, must become God's children (proving they'd been rejected as such).

Before you say "But they weren't truly saved--what happened to them was just a shadow of things to come!" : yes, it was/is a shadow of things to come. That actually proves my point: as Paul says, "Old Testament" Scripture teaches us about how Christianity works.


2 Timothy 3
15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

And an explicit example...

1 Corinthians 9
8Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?
Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

And again what ever happened to them happened as an example for us.

1 Corinthians 10
11Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.
 
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Daniel.

Member
For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children, And they have rebelled against Me; (Isa 1:2 NKJ)

I wonder if people who affirm ES would argue these "children" were either still saved or never saved.
If the pattern continues, they will raise a completely unrelated issue--Calvinism lacks explanatory power.
 

Daniel.

Member
For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children, And they have rebelled against Me; (Isa 1:2 NKJ)

I wonder if people who affirm ES would argue these "children" were either still saved or never saved.
If the pattern continues, they will raise a completely unrelated issue--Calvinism lacks explanatory power.

That is, if they respond at all.

"Why should we respond? You're not going to listen!"

Why should I listen to you rather than Scripture?
 

Daniel.

Member
these bodies are the blemish = the abomination.

Start there.
If I am understanding you correctly, and you are saying they are "no longer His children" because their bodies are "abominable", how did it happen that they were called "His children" in the first place?
 

Daniel.

Member
the original sons and daughters in Eden, had the eden nature, being in His Image.
This was lost at the fall...

and as God warned not to, they entered the world of death.
the one we are in now.

nature and reality got corrupted because of the fall.

the bodies we have not are not His...

We will be restored to our true nature, of Eden, at the Change to the imperishable and
will be saved.
So, basically, you are throwing the verses that teach that the Jews were God's children out then?
 

Daniel.

Member
the original sons and daughters in Eden, had the eden nature, being in His Image.
This was lost at the fall...

and as God warned not to, they entered the world of death.
the one we are in now.

nature and reality got corrupted because of the fall.

the bodies we have not are not His...

We will be restored to our true nature, of Eden, at the Change to the imperishable and
will be saved.
The OP makes clear that this thread is for discussing the misunderstanding about a dynamic of being a "child of God".

Are you supposed to be responding to the OP?
 

Daniel.

Member
i just described the sons and daughters...each an actual child of God.
is that not the op?
The discussion is about the fact that Calvinists have a misunderstanding that being a child of God is an immutable reality.

Are you disagreeing or agreeing with that?
 

Daniel.

Member
the way they understand that is wrong.

However, just as you are definitely from your two parents, God’s souls are immutably from Him and are actual sons and daughters.

Can they lose it?

Sure. They could reject God.
All right, so you agree that they are wrong.

Thanks.

I won't address the rest of the erroneous assertions you made.
 

Daniel.

Member
then that invalidates your position as it does theirs.
If you have a disagreement with me, find the appropriate subforum, make a post, and invite me to discuss it.

This is my thread, and the topic is how Calvinists are wrong in thinking sonship is immutable--I'm not going to get distracted with other discussions.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I wish a brave and knowledgeable Calvinist would interact with me on the Scriptures.

Maybe if you disagreed in a courteous, charitable, and respectful manner, i instead of constantly insulting them, you might get some takers.

1Pet. 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
 
G

guest1

Guest
Maybe if you disagreed in a courteous, charitable, and respectful manner, i instead of constantly insulting them, you might get some takers.

1Pet. 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
Yes mocking/ trolling is not an effective method of communication.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
So, I've seen that people often misunderstand the idea of being "born again" or "children of God" as if it were something irreversible or immutable ("You can't become unborn, silly--similarly, you can't become 'not God's child'."); clearly, these people just need a little information to help them out of this misunderstanding on account of which they are spreading confusion in the Christian community.

Deuteronomy 31
1“You are the sons of the Lord your God.
Deuteronomy 32
5They have dealt corruptly with him;
they are no longer his children because they are blemished...

So, Jews are called God's children; later it's prophesied they will no longer be God's children.

Hosea 1
9And the Lord said, “Call his name Not My People, for you are not my people, and I am not your God.”
10Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And in the place where it was said to them, “You are not my people,” it shall be said to them, “Children of the living God.”

Deuteronomy 32's prophecy comes true: they're no longer God's children, and must become God's children in the future.

Romans 9
24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”


Paul says Hosea refers to Jews--ie, Jews, indeed, must become God's children (proving they'd been rejected as such).

Before you say "But they weren't truly saved--what happened to them was just a shadow of things to come!" : yes, it was/is a shadow of things to come. That actually proves my point: as Paul says, "Old Testament" Scripture teaches us about how Christianity works.


2 Timothy 3
15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

And an explicit example...

1 Corinthians 9
8Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?
Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

And again what ever happened to them happened as an example for us.

1 Corinthians 10
11Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.
First of all, you have a corrupt translation, Deut 31:1

And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.

Your translation:

Deuteronomy 31
1“You are the sons of the Lord your God.
 

Daniel.

Member
First of all, you have a corrupt translation, Deut 31:1

And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.

Your translation:

Deuteronomy 31
1“You are the sons of the Lord your God.
Thanks. That was a typo. It was Dt 14:1.

You guys have no problems confronting me, I noticed, on precise verbiage when you have no fear the verbiage is not in your positions' favor...
but when it threatens your positions you won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Very telling indeed!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Thanks. That was a typo. It was Dt 14:1.

You guys have no problems confronting me, I noticed, on precise verbiage when you have no fear the verbiage is not in your positions' favor...
but when it threatens your positions you won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Very telling indeed!
So you believe that those folk were the children of God like the ones here Gal 3:26

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
View attachment 1002
I am tired of having to repeat my view of these people : I believe John when John teaches that in order to believe Jesus (these Jews believed) one must first be of the truth, and that one must belong to the Father in order to go to Jesus.

I also believe John 15 which teaches that the branches that the Vine produces which do not remain in the Vine and His Words in them will be cut off.
You did not answer my question.
 
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