Thief on the cross - forgiven how?

[Open Heart]

Jewish young maiden...If she wasn't a virgin, she was stoned dead.

A 16 year old married woman is an "almah."

 

[Jewjitzu]

It does...but I had to put spaces in it to keep it in the body. The "paste media" link doesn't function, and leaves half a page blank. Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks for trying: Try again, if you want to: https: //youtu.be/ sv2yDNKNWjQ

I put a space after https: before the two forward slashes, and a space after be/ before the sv, etc. You have to copy this, and paste it, then back space those two spaces and it works fine. I just did it again and it's fun to hear!

Sounds like your focused primarily on three words being repeated over and over again.

Sounds nonsensical. Do you know what language you are speaking, what you are saying?

 

[tbeachhead]

A 16 year old married woman is an "almah."

Check the LXX...the seventy knew what the Hebrew said. Parthenos is pretty clear.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Jewish young maiden...If she wasn't a virgin, she was stoned dead. You're twisting the language for the sake of your argument, and the LXX bears this out.

No, almah is just a young maiden. Joseph did want to divorce Mary according to the accounts.

A married women is stoned for committing adultery. A young women in a faithful marriage isn't.

Messiah has been called Emmanuel from the day Isaiah made the prophecy.

Jesus wasn't when he was born.

Not yet. Just betrothed. You're arguing from a vacuum of your own creation.

Deut 22
23If there is a virgin pledged in marriage to a man, and another man encounters her in the city and sleeps with her, 24you must take both of them out to the gate of that city and stone them to death—the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. So you must purge the evil from among you.

"She had. not known a man." It's easy to ignore what you do not want to believe...but Gabriel knew, and said what he said because he knew.

Not at the moment, but she did shortly

Actually I believe what Elohim said, and I believe in a spiritual reality. You cannot see this, as Isaiah points out.

But your spiritual reality is physical. So, what is the difference?

Of course. And I see that you cannot see, as it is written. Your god is limited to the limits you set. At least you have admitted that Elohim is a "they"...and echad.

No, your gods are they. Why don't you explain how they got their bodies?

No...It only proves that an omniscient God knew whom to chose to bring the Word into this World to demonstrate His love for you.

It proves you rely on someone's righteousness who depends on others for his righteousness. Contradictions...

 

[tbeachhead]

Sounds like your focused primarily on three words being repeated over and over again.

Sounds nonsensical. Do you know what language you are speaking, what you are saying?

Did it sound pretty much like gibberish? Like I was making it up? I posted it on the Pentecostal board a few years back so those who felt qualified to judge languages they had never heard could judge. They did. Foolishly.

I appreciate your caution. I'm saying "Thank you God!" in three languages that I'm able to speak, however rudimentarily. In French I'm saying, "Merci Seigneur" three times...then (I forget the order)...I think it's Swedish, my wife's native language, "Tack, gode Gud" and finally Arabic...which I studied while living in Nazareth, so the accent is levant..."shukran rrab".

The point is one a true linguist will readily admit: Hearing someone's language for the very first time doesn't give an American license to judge...

French is the language I teach others, and that opens doors for me in France as a perceived "native speaker". I'm qualified to interpret and have often simultaneously going both ways. I also translate. I'm not as qualified in the. other languages...but ironically, the critics on the Pentecostal page told me that my French didn't sound French. They corrected me, because they'd had a couple years in high school.

Everyone thinks of themselves as an expert, until they are. True in language...and theology.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Did it sound pretty much like gibberish? Like I was making it up? I posted it on the Pentecostal board a few years back so those who felt qualified to judge languages they had never heard could judge. They did. Foolishly.

Yep, it was gibberish.

I appreciate your caution. I'm saying "Thank you God!" in three languages that I'm able to speak, however rudimentarily. In French I'm saying, "Merci Seigneur" three times...then (I forget the order)...I think it's Swedish, my wife's native language, "Tack, gode Gud" and finally Arabic...which I studied while living in Nazareth, so the accent is levant..."shukran rrab".

So, you know these languages already so what's so special about that? The spirit didn't spontaneously give you these words.

The point is one a true linguist will readily admit: Hearing someone's language for the very first time doesn't give an American license to judge...

True. But my point is you've practiced this and it is not a gift of the spirit

French is the language I teach others, and that opens doors for me in France as a perceived "native speaker". I'm qualified to interpret and have often simultaneously going both ways. I also translate. I'm not as qualified in the. other languages...but ironically, the critics on the Pentecostal page told me that my French didn't sound French. They corrected me, because they'd had a couple years in high school.

Everyone thinks of themselves as an expert, until they are. True in language...and theology.

Sorry, but this was not a gift of the spirit.

 

[Open Heart]

Check the LXX...the seventy knew what the Hebrew said. Parthenos is pretty clear.

Only the torah portion of the LXX was written by the 70. The LXX is a particularly bad translation when talking about the non-Torah sections of teh Tanakh, such as the prophet Isaiah.

Why are you even talking about a Greek translation at all????? Translations are ALWAYS inferior to the original language. If you want to know what Isaiah says, you read it in Hebrew.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Check the LXX...the seventy knew what the Hebrew said. Parthenos is pretty clear.

They 70 weren't responsible for the Church LXX you have today.

 

[tbeachhead]

No, almah is just a young maiden. Joseph did want to divorce Mary according to the accounts.

A parthenos...the LXX choice for alma, is a virgin.

[/quote]A married women is stoned for committing adultery. A young women in a faithful marriage isn't.[/quote]A virgin who doesn't scream is stoned. A virgin, betrothed, is not a married woman.

A young betrothed virgin is not in a marriage. You're explanations of convenience do not work with me. They were

Jesus wasn't when he was born.

You weren't there. Eyewitnesses relate what the angels, who were neither storms nor acts of nature, said on the day he was born: In the City of David, a Savior, Who is Messiah Adonai.

Deut 22
23If there is a virgin pledged in marriage to a man, and another man encounters her in the city and sleeps with her, 24you must take both of them out to the gate of that city and stone them to death—the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. So you must purge the evil from among you.

As I said...More proof that Mary was a virgin, and that your limited skills cannot perceive God's nature and the power of faith in the Word. It was the same Word of the Lord that created the universe. He can also enter the womb when faith in God is real. You're sadly very limited in your scope. You use course, crass, self-satisfying blasphemous terms, suggesting that your Elohim could be or would be like Zeus, raping in the form of a crane.

Not at the moment, but she did shortly

After Jesus was born. She had sons and daughters.

But your spiritual reality is physical. So, what is the difference?

You do not understand the terminology you are using. For you, spirit is a force of nature...totally physical.

No, your gods are they. Why don't you explain how they got their bodies?

Your Elohim surpasses your ability to comprehend Him...and He still waits for you to ask Him the same question.

It proves you rely on someone's righteousness who depends on others for his righteousness. Contradictions...

No..lt only proves that our Elohim is unlimited and omniscient, unlike your limited invention.

 

[tbeachhead]

They 70 weren't responsible for the Church LXX you have today.

The seventy who did the translation were responsible for their choice of variants when translating alma accurately.

 

[Jewjitzu]

The seventy who did the translation were responsible for their choice of variants when translating alma accurately.

We don't have that LXX. Only what the church redacted. The original never included the books of the prophets nor Apocryphal either.

 

[tbeachhead]

Only the torah portion of the LXX was written by the 70. The LXX is a particularly bad translation when talking about the non-Torah sections of teh Tanakh, such as the prophet Isaiah.

Fascinating claim...because you are qualified to judge the translators? Or to deny that the LXX was used by the diaspora centuries before Christians understood the translation, and continue to translate the same using the ancient translations as a guide?

You've been taught denial by the best.

Why are you even talking about a Greek translation at all????? Translations are ALWAYS inferior to the original language. If you want to know what Isaiah says, you read it in Hebrew.

You're proving my point. The LXX was by Jews for Jews in the diaspora, because most were losing Hebrew as a language and were speaking Koine Greek. The Jews undertook to facilitate reading and understanding the Holy Word of God. Learn the history of the folks you've wanted to adopt as your own.

And learn where this historic error came in! The objection was made after the discovery that Mary was actually a virgin, and that Isaiah's prophecy, as the LXX translators understood it, had literally come to pass. Imagine, after the denial that led to the crucifixion, what that discovery did to those who committed their own souls to that denial.

 

[tbeachhead]

We don't have that LXX. Only what the church redacted.

False claim...Fragments of the LXX are found in Qumran, and other fragments prove that the LXX is more accurate transcribing the historic text than the Masoretic text.

 

[Jewjitzu]

A parthenos...the LXX choice for alma, is a virgin.

This is false. Gen 34:3 shows parthenos used of Dinah who was raped.

A young betrothed virgin is not in a marriage. You're explanations of convenience do not work with me.

This is false. A betrothed woman is legally married as Deut 22:22-23 proves. Why do you think Joseph wanted to divorce her?

 

[Jewjitzu]

False claim...Fragments of the LXX are found in Qumran, and other fragments prove that the LXX is more accurate transcribing the historic text than the Masoretic text.

Do you have a whole LXX from 200 BCE? No.

 

[tbeachhead]

Yep, it was gibberish.

Funny thing...judgment from an unqualified judge...I showed you it was not gibberish, but intelligible speech in three separate languages, and you still call it gibberish.

Thank you. You've proven my point adequately.

So, you know these languages already so what's so special about that? The spirit didn't spontaneously give you these words.

What's special here is not my knowledge. It's your willing rush to judgment. Your willingness to lay out your own lack of qualification...and your blithe, unbridled attempts to sound like you know something you cannot possibly know.

It's called the end of credibility.

True. But my point is you've practiced this and it is not a gift of the spirit

Truth...and I will never allow you to blaspheme, nor record myself speaking the tongues the Spirit gave me.

Caution in the face of ignorance is paramount.

Sorry, but this was not a gift of the spirit.

Sorry you cannot understand...but the point is made. You have no basis for judgement...of gift or language.

 

[Jewjitzu]

No..lt only proves that our Elohim is unlimited and omniscient, unlike your limited invention.

But your gods are physical and created? And Jesus was short on righteousness.

 

[tbeachhead]

Do you have a whole LXX from 200 BCE? No.

No one does...Were the Jewish and Christian scriptoriums particularly excellent in accurately copying? Qumran suggests, yes...far better than any other group of copyists.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Funny thing...judgment from an unqualified judge...I showed you it was not gibberish, but intelligible speech in three separate languages, and you still call it gibberish.

But even you admitted that native speakers don't understand your speech?

What's special here is not my knowledge. It's your willing rush to judgment. Your willingness to lay out your own lack of qualification...and your blithe, unbridled attempts to sound like you know something you cannot possibly know.

My point was what is passed as tongues today is gibberish.

Yours doesn't qualify as a gift of the Spirit as you practice it and not given by God.

Would you agree tv evangelist speak gibberish?

Truth...and I will never allow you to blaspheme, nor record myself speaking the tongues the Spirit gave me.

You practiced it. The spirit gave you nothing. It's a sham.

 

[tbeachhead]

But your gods are physical and created? And Jesus was short on righteousness.

My Elohim is spirit...and for you incomprehensible. Jesus never had to satisfy your invention to be righteous...He is the WORD made flesh to dwell among us and reveal the Father to us.