This 1 parable refutes all 5 points of calvinism- tulip

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American Gothic

Well-known member
Jesus first taught direct/clearly
then, after His rejection in chapter 12 the Nation lost the Light they were being given
He began to teach in parables (indirect/less clearly)

Matt 13:11-14

"Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not
given
. For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but
whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that which he has. Therefore
speak I to them in parables; because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not,
neither do they understand. And unto them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, whicL
says, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall in no wise understand; And seeing ye shall
see, and shall in no wise perceive: ..."

And He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
“Make the heart of this people dull,
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed.” Isaiah 6

"And with many such parables He spoke the word to them as they were able to hear it.
34 But without a parable He did not speak to them. {the Masses)
And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples." Mark 4

certain parables being about the nature of the Kingdom, The Church, and about Believers
differences from non-Believers and differences among themselves, doctrines,
preaching/witnessing the gospel, bearing fruit, gentile and Jewish, etc
like these in Matthew 13
 
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1Thess521

Well-known member
Matthew 13
1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.


19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith

* And as we can see they all had life to begin with in each soil. Only something alive can be choked. You cannot choke the dead lol.
* And only something alive can be scorched by the Sun and withered.
* Only someone alive can receive the word in the heart and have it snatched away
* Only someone alive can receive the word with Joy and endure for a while

hope this helps !!!
It was God who first prepared the "soil" of my heart and then planted the seed.

Thanks for showing regeneration precedes faith
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
the sower nor the sown to does not know where when or in whom
the gospel seed sown will sprout or quite understand how it even could have

it must be an act of God, the giver of Life

Calvinistic?
Arminiany?
 
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Synergy

Well-known member
theologically? yes
The unregenerate will accept the Gospel
The unregenerate cannot NOT accept the Gospel
Can you quote Bible verses that clearly say that?
Chronologically ? no
It happened at the same moment
Now it's at the same time.

How about all the OT Saints that proved faithful way before the regeneration of man started with Pentecost? Doesn't that prove faith can precede regeneration at least chronologically?
 

Bocco

Active member
Amen! Here comes the screams I was a Calvinist for 40 years and your committing the ad hom fallacy
I've never heard of a ad hom fallacy. There is a ad hoc fallacy and a ad hominem fallacy.
What is being Nobel about?
Virtuous or honest. They (good and noble ) are two different Greek words. Can't really see much difference.
A lot of versions have good and honest.

G2570
kalos
Of uncertain affinity; properly beautiful, but chiefly (figuratively) good (literally or morally), that is, valuable or virtuous (for appearance or use, and thus distinguished from G18, which is properly intrinsic): - X better, fair, good (-ly), honest, meet, well, worthy.

G18
agathos
A primary word; “good” (in any sense, often as noun): - benefit, good (-s, things), well. Compare G2570.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
How about all the OT Saints that proved faithful way before the regeneration of man started with Pentecost? Doesn't that prove faith can precede regeneration at least chronologically?
I think OT saints could have the HS with them or within them (prophets)
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
I've never heard of a ad hom fallacy. There is a ad hoc fallacy and a ad hominem fallacy.

Virtuous or honest. They (good and noble ) are two different Greek words. Can't really see much difference.
A lot of versions have good and honest.

G2570
kalos
Of uncertain affinity; properly beautiful, but chiefly (figuratively) good (literally or morally), that is, valuable or virtuous (for appearance or use, and thus distinguished from G18, which is properly intrinsic): - X better, fair, good (-ly), honest, meet, well, worthy.

G18
agathos
A primary word; “good” (in any sense, often as noun): - benefit, good (-s, things), well. Compare G2570.

ok .....
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
At no time were they ever refered to as regenerated.
they could be Believers

where they declared righteous in God's sight?
was their Salvation and eventual resurrection assured in that?

was it radically different from you as an age of Grace saint?
granted there would be change after Messiah's death

was David's plea for new heart and renewed spirit merely prophetic?
or had he experienced the Spirit in some way?
 

Synergy

Well-known member
they could be Believers

where they declared righteous in God's sight?
was their Salvation and eventual resurrection assured in that?

was it radically different from you as an age of Grace saint?
granted there would be change after Messiah's death

was David's plea for new heart and renewed spirit merely prophetic?
or had he experienced the Spirit in some way?
They were certainly justified faithful believers but at no time were they ever referred to as regenerated. Regeneration started with Pentecost.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
I've never heard of a ad hom fallacy. There is a ad hoc fallacy and a ad hominem fallacy.

Virtuous or honest. They (good and noble ) are two different Greek words. Can't really see much difference.
A lot of versions have good and honest.

G2570
kalos
Of uncertain affinity; properly beautiful, but chiefly (figuratively) good (literally or morally), that is, valuable or virtuous (for appearance or use, and thus distinguished from G18, which is properly intrinsic): - X better, fair, good (-ly), honest, meet, well, worthy.

G18
agathos
A primary word; “good” (in any sense, often as noun): - benefit, good (-s, things), well. Compare G2570.
A ad hominem attack is considered a logical fallacy. Now you have heard of it.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Can you quote Bible verses that clearly say that?
Acts 16:
Among those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.
 

Synergy

Well-known member
Acts 16:
Among those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.
I don't see any regeneration or anything salvific there. I see the Lord opening her heart, nice gesture but no regeneration.

I've yet to see any example of regeneration before faith; whereas, the entire OT is a stellar example of faith before regeneration.
 
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