This 1 parable refutes all 5 points of calvinism- tulip

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Alexander the adequate

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Where are you folks getting this from? Jeremiah 4:3, and Hosea 10:12 say the following,

For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
Jeremiah 4:3

Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you. Hosea 10:12

Both of these verses say that WE are to prepare the soil of our hearts! It is WE who do the plowing.
Yes, I understand that we are to guard our hearts because the issues of life flow from them. The seed parable does not say that God tends the ground, so it would be imporatnt to do as you did and see if other places using the metaphor say who does. And as you saw,we do the tending.
 
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Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
But you used Verses showing we are the Farmer who breaks the ground. Who does the Sowing if not the Farmer?
But the parable says the ground represents hearts. The sower is not being selective about where he sows.
If the sower was meant to be the land owner, in that case sowing to his own heart, the parable does not make much sense. Why would a landowner sow seed anywhere but on the land he had prepared.
I think the parable needs to be understood within the confines of what Jesus explained. We don't evangelize ourselves, but we can live our lives in ways that make us more ready to hear the truth and take it in.

Isn't that the point of the parable? Guard your heart.
Not sow to your own heart (evangelize yourself)
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
But the parable says the ground represents hearts. The sower is not being selective about where he sows.
If the sower was meant to be the land owner, in that case sowing to his own heart, the parable does not make much sense. Why would a landowner sow seed anywhere but on the land he had prepared.
I think the parable needs to be understood within the confines of what Jesus explained. We don't evangelize ourselves, but we can live our lives in ways that make us more ready to hear the truth and take it in.

Isn't that the point of the parable? Guard your heart.
Not sow to your own heart (evangelize yourself)
The Birds - by ReverendRV

Matthew 13:4 GW
; Some seeds were planted along the road, and birds came and devoured them.

Jesus used four examples of ground to teach about our Hearts and described them like different kinds of Soils which received a Farmers seed. One was freshly tilled soil, another was weedy soil, yet another was rocky soil, but one was the hardest soil of them all; the trodden path where nothing grew. Jesus would go on to explain that the seed symbolizes his Gospel and its effect on the different types of Soils. ~ You may have the hardest heart there is and the birds just carry the seed away, but I have news for you; Jesus went on to say that if the birds didn’t fly away with the Gospel seed, you WOULD believe and be Saved. The reason for this conversion is because of how dynamic the Gospel is! The Gospel is THE POWER OF GOD unto Salvation. It is the same power that God raises people from the dead with. You don’t stand a chance and have no control over it; the Gospel can penetrate your Heart no matter what. If you don’t like feeling out of control like this, wait until you hear the rest; the worse is yet to come…

Jesus said that the birds are Satan stealing the Gospel seed from those who don’t understand, lest they believe and be Saved. There is a Spiritual War going on and we’re in the middle of a battle. If you don’t like being out of control regarding the Power of the Gospel, you really shouldn’t like not having control over Satan taking away your best chance in life! What you need is Understanding; let me help you. ~ Have you ever Lied? What name do you call a person if they tell Lies? Have you ever stolen something? What name do you call someone that steals? Are you beginning to understand? Jesus said that Hatred is Murder in the Heart, certainly a hard Heart has hated; right? Have you ever hated anyone? These are only three of the Ten Commandments, shall we go on? If God judged you by this standard would you be innocent or guilty? If you understand, you’d be guilty. Does this bother you?? God sends guilty Sinners to an eternal Hell; but you don’t have to go. You can hang up a scarecrow to keep the birds away…

Jesus was hung up on a cross like a scarecrow. The reason for this was so that he could receive the wrath of God for Sins he never committed. Jesus lived his whole life and never Sinned by breaking any of God’s Laws. This made him like a spotless lamb who’s fleece is white as snow. Jesus gladly gave up his life and shed his blood so that we wouldn’t have to go through this as punishment for our Sins. He died and was buried in a borrowed tomb, but rose from the dead after three calendar days. He conquered death and the grave and after forty days he ascended to Heaven where he awaits the day he’ll bring us to himself. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus as our Risen Lord and Savior, without our tilling the ground. Repent and go to a Church that teaches the Gospel and the Bible. ~ Alfred Hitchcock made a horror film called ‘The Birds’. Nature began to turn on Mankind and the fowls of the air started to attack. No eye or ear was safe from them and many would lose their lives. Stay close to Jesus and you will be safe…

Matthew 13:18 KJV; But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
The Birds - by ReverendRV

Matthew 13:4 GW
; Some seeds were planted along the road, and birds came and devoured them.

Jesus used four examples of ground to teach about our Hearts and described them like different kinds of Soils which received a Farmers seed. One was freshly tilled soil, another was weedy soil, yet another was rocky soil, but one was the hardest soil of them all; the trodden path where nothing grew. Jesus would go on to explain that the seed symbolizes his Gospel and its effect on the different types of Soils. ~ You may have the hardest heart there is and the birds just carry the seed away, but I have news for you; Jesus went on to say that if the birds didn’t fly away with the Gospel seed, you WOULD believe and be Saved. The reason for this conversion is because of how dynamic the Gospel is! The Gospel is THE POWER OF GOD unto Salvation. It is the same power that God raises people from the dead with. You don’t stand a chance and have no control over it; the Gospel can penetrate your Heart no matter what. If you don’t like feeling out of control like this, wait until you hear the rest; the worse is yet to come…

Jesus said that the birds are Satan stealing the Gospel seed from those who don’t understand, lest they believe and be Saved. There is a Spiritual War going on and we’re in the middle of a battle. If you don’t like being out of control regarding the Power of the Gospel, you really shouldn’t like not having control over Satan taking away your best chance in life! What you need is Understanding; let me help you. ~ Have you ever Lied? What name do you call a person if they tell Lies? Have you ever stolen something? What name do you call someone that steals? Are you beginning to understand? Jesus said that Hatred is Murder in the Heart, certainly a hard Heart has hated; right? Have you ever hated anyone? These are only three of the Ten Commandments, shall we go on? If God judged you by this standard would you be innocent or guilty? If you understand, you’d be guilty. Does this bother you?? God sends guilty Sinners to an eternal Hell; but you don’t have to go. You can hang up a scarecrow to keep the birds away…

Jesus was hung up on a cross like a scarecrow. The reason for this was so that he could receive the wrath of God for Sins he never committed. Jesus lived his whole life and never Sinned by breaking any of God’s Laws. This made him like a spotless lamb who’s fleece is white as snow. Jesus gladly gave up his life and shed his blood so that we wouldn’t have to go through this as punishment for our Sins. He died and was buried in a borrowed tomb, but rose from the dead after three calendar days. He conquered death and the grave and after forty days he ascended to Heaven where he awaits the day he’ll bring us to himself. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus as our Risen Lord and Savior, without our tilling the ground. Repent and go to a Church that teaches the Gospel and the Bible. ~ Alfred Hitchcock made a horror film called ‘The Birds’. Nature began to turn on Mankind and the fowls of the air started to attack. No eye or ear was safe from them and many would lose their lives. Stay close to Jesus and you will be safe…

Matthew 13:18 KJV; But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
i read some of this and had to leave, Can you summarize why you are presenting this as a reponse to my ideas?
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Where are you folks getting this from? Jeremiah 4:3, and Hosea 10:12 say the following,

For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
Jeremiah 4:3

Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you. Hosea 10:12

Both of these verses say that WE are to prepare the soil of our hearts! It is WE who do the plowing.
Yes it's well documented God commanded obedience to his law with a pure heart.

Sadly not one could do it.

But God..........praise his grace today.
 

Bocco

Active member
How do you know they were human beings? Figure that out and apply that to how you know they were born again?
I know they were human beings because they stood up and could talk and think. I know they were born again because of what Jesus said:
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

See ' be aware of, perceive, understand

1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Know = be aware, feel, perceive, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.

Natural (man) = psychikos,
  1. of or belonging to breath
    1. having the nature and characteristics of the breath
      1. the principal of animal life, which men have in common with the brutes
    2. governed by breath
      1. the sensuous nature with its subjection to appetite and passion
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
if offering Himself was all it took for the Spirit to be able to permanently in dwellsus, why did Jesus say the Spirit could not come until He, Jesus, left?
Why do you think that is so important to know? It really isn't and there will always be things that we cannot know the reason of for certain.

All you need to know for the time being or until God reveals that unto you, is that the permanent indwelling of the Spirit wasn't available in the OT and was only given after Jesus died and rose again and then ascended to the Father.


We are not even speaking of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit here but rather that which Jesus breathed on them after he returned from the Father saying "receive the Holy Spirit", that is when they were indwelt by the Spirit and Pentecost is when they were baptized in the Holy Spirit in power.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Why do you think that is so important to know? It really isn't and there will always be things that we cannot know the reason of for certain.

All you need to know for the time being or until God reveals that unto you, is that the permanent indwelling of the Spirit wasn't available in the OT and was only given after Jesus died and rose again and then ascended to the Father.


We are not even speaking of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit here but rather that which Jesus breathed on them after he returned from the Father saying "receive the Holy Spirit", that is when they were indwelt by the Spirit and Pentecost is when they were baptized in the Holy Spirit in power.

Christ in you the hope of glory?
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
Why do you think that is so important to know? It really isn't and there will always be things that we cannot know the reason of for certain.

All you need to know for the time being or until God reveals that unto you, is that the permanent indwelling of the Spirit wasn't available in the OT and was only given after Jesus died and rose again and then ascended to the Father.


We are not even speaking of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit here but rather that which Jesus breathed on them after he returned from the Father saying "receive the Holy Spirit", that is when they were indwelt by the Spirit and Pentecost is when they were baptized in the Holy Spirit in power.
Now you are adding some of the details that were missing. Before you said it was after He died with no mention of the resurrection and ascension. Had He not resurrected, it seems His death would not have been effective.
So it appears we may be on the same page in some ways.
Though, I disagree that Jesus breathing on them caused the Spirit to indwell them for a few reasons:
1. The narrative does not say they received the Spirit there
2. The promise of the Father had not come yet
3. Acts describes the day it happened
4. Jesus said He had to leave before the Spirit could come
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
Errrr ......

You know the method it is not appreciated.

This a theological debate site.
Sorry, let me explain...

I really do not like to discuss things with people who are not here for a well-rounded discussion. Many people I will not talk to, except if I think something important needs to be said; especially after I have figured out the person doesn't even want to try. Alexander is a former Member who we all are used to, and I'm glad he is back; but that doesn't mean I have to let him grab the steering wheel of the conversation away from me, when that's his usual modus operandi. He's been here as long as I have, so I have banged my head on the wall almost as much as Civic did with him. I am not here to bang my head on the wall with anyone...

I've noticed the way you like to Post as well; it doesn't appeal to me...
 
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Slyzr

Well-known member
Sorry, let me explain...

I really do not like to discuss things with people who are not here for a regular discussion. Many people I will not talk to, except if I think something important needs to be said; especially after I have figured out the person doesn't want to try. Alexander is a former Member who we all are used to, and I'm glad he is back; but that doesn't mean I have to let him grab the steering wheel of the conversation away from me, when that's his usual modus operandi. He's been here as long as I have, so I have banged my head on the wall almost as much as Civic did with him. I am not here to bang my head on the wall with anyone...

I've noticed the way you like to Post as well; it doesn't appeal to me...

Then address .....

Your tracts are not addressing, they are spamming.

What is edifying about we are all dead in adam.

Ever hear about the doctrine of christ victorious.

Sheesh
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
Then address .....

Your tracts are not addressing, they are spamming.

What is edifying about we are all dead in adam.

Ever hear about the doctrine of christ victorious.

Sheesh
I also would rather that a person addresses the ideas in posts instead of what that other poster is doing.
Much rather hear why they disagree and Biblically what they found their ideas on.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
I also would rather that a person addresses the ideas in posts instead of what that other poster is doing.
Much rather hear why they disagree and Biblically what they found their ideas on.

I don't read his tracts either.

If someone want to post it then post it .....

The tagging some else for their thngy.

Kind of wierd.

RV .... pretty sure you know, "not' your tracts you wrote.

You ok with that?
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
Yes, here is how Luke puts it:
Luk 8:15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

Where did the noble and good heart come from?
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

The word "works" and "to do" are the same Greek word energeō.
The willing and the doing. Both are from God, and are of one piece, so that he who wills inevitably does. The willing which is wrought by God, by its own nature and pressure, works out into action. “We will, but God works the will in us. We work, therefore, but God works the working in us” (Augustine).

It is obvious that the first 3 hearers were not energized by God. They accepted the good news, but who knows why.

Act 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
Act 8:20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.

Here is a guy who is said to have beleived and was baptized. But Peter tells him "your heart is not right in the sight of God." I guess he didn't have that noble and good heart. He just seemed to have believed because he thought it was cool. Kind of like transgenderism today.
This is a good example for endorsing Sola Scriptura...
 
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