This 1 parable refutes all 5 points of calvinism- tulip

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Matthew 13
1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.


19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith

* And as we can see they all had life to begin with in each soil. Only something alive can be choked. You cannot choke the dead lol.
* And only something alive can be scorched by the Sun and withered.
* Only someone alive can receive the word in the heart and have it snatched away
* Only someone alive can receive the word with Joy and endure for a while

hope this helps !!!
 
Matthew 13
1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.


19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith

* And as we can see they all had life to begin with in each soil. Only something alive can be choked. You cannot choke the dead lol.
* And only something alive can be scorched by the Sun and withered.
* Only someone alive can receive the word in the heart and have it snatched away
* Only someone alive can receive the word with Joy and endure for a while

hope this helps !!!

Noticed this is part of the debate.

How about the good soil was pre prepared.
 
How about the good soil was pre prepared.
Yes, here is how Luke puts it:
Luk 8:15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

Where did the noble and good heart come from?
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

The word "works" and "to do" are the same Greek word energeō.
The willing and the doing. Both are from God, and are of one piece, so that he who wills inevitably does. The willing which is wrought by God, by its own nature and pressure, works out into action. “We will, but God works the will in us. We work, therefore, but God works the working in us” (Augustine).

It is obvious that the first 3 hearers were not energized by God. They accepted the good news, but who knows why.

Act 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
Act 8:20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.

Here is a guy who is said to have beleived and was baptized. But Peter tells him "your heart is not right in the sight of God." I guess he didn't have that noble and good heart. He just seemed to have believed because he thought it was cool. Kind of like transgenderism today.
 
Yes, here is how Luke puts it:
Luk 8:15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

Where did the noble and good heart come from?
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

The word "works" and "to do" are the same Greek word energeō.
The willing and the doing. Both are from God, and are of one piece, so that he who wills inevitably does. The willing which is wrought by God, by its own nature and pressure, works out into action. “We will, but God works the will in us. We work, therefore, but God works the working in us” (Augustine).

It is obvious that the first 3 hearers were not energized by God. They accepted the good news, but who knows why.

Act 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
Act 8:20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.

Here is a guy who is said to have beleived and was baptized. But Peter tells him "your heart is not right in the sight of God." I guess he didn't have that noble and good heart. He just seemed to have believed because he thought it was cool. Kind of like transgenderism today.

Lot of stuff there.

What is being Nobel about?
 
Matthew 13

This thread indicates a serious problem many have with their "study" of the Bible, and it shows a lack of self-awareness on the part of many. In fact, this OP is a perfect example of eisegesis, projecting your own theology onto the text, rather than letting the text speak for itself, and this sin is especially heinous since Jesus gave us the correct interpretation.

Far too frequently, people claim that their personal interpretation is the "clear meaning" of the text, without even trying to look for other plausible interpretations (such as those which are consistent with Calvinism). This can be done out of ignorance, but since the OP claims to know Calvinism better than any Calvinist who has ever lived, he cannot claim ignorance, so his misrepresentation must be intentional.

1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Neither the parable nor Christ's explanation mention "elect", so this passage cannot be used to "prove" or "disprove" Calvinism.

What this parable explains is a question which is asked in this forum all of the time, why is it when two people hear the gospel, some respond positively, and others don't? This parable explains what we see in our present day, and presumably what the disciples saw in their day.

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

The seeds on the "way side" represents those who have heard the gospel, but have never accepted it.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

The seeds on the stony places represent people who receieve the gospel initially, perhaps even getting baptized. It's a novelty for a bit, but then the world gets in the way. Bad things happen, and they can't believe God didn't prevent it from happening. Or perhaps they get teased or bullied (like anti-Calvinists do here), and they give up, thinking it's not worth the effort. So we see them in church for a while, but at some point they fall away.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

The seeds on the thorny ground represent people who initially receive the message, and start coming to church, but at some point Christ and the word are no longer the centre of their life, and they get pre-occupied with worldly things, so they leave the church.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

And of course, the seeds falling on the good ground represents true Christians, who have been born of God, and bear much fruit.

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith

Apparently the poster ASSUMES (without any basis whatsoever) that ALL the soils represent the "elect". This seems incredibly arbitrary and self-serving, and you can't "disprove" a theology by relying on self-serving "assumptions".

It seems that an equally valid interpretation, if not a more valid one, is that it is the "good ground" that represents the elect, and that the other three soils represent the non-elect.

Specifically:

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel

Sorry, but there is NOTHING in the parable about ability ("can") or "choice". How can rocky ground "choose" to "receive the gospel" if the birds snatch it away? That's the birds' "choice", not the ground's. Similarly, when the thorns take all the nutrients away, preventing the seed to grow, how is that the "ground's" choice?

No, if you want to argue about "ability", you need to go ELSEWHERE in Scripture, to passages which actually SPEAK of "ability":

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Rom. 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor. 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Btw, a more detailed exegesis of 1 Cor. 2 can be found here.

U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils

That depends on how you understand "believe". I would point you to your own citation of James 2, to show that all "faith" is not equal. Further, the Bible never teaches that all are "elect", and there is much in Scripture which shows God limiting it:

Matt. 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood
you ransomed people for God
from
every tribe and language and people and nation,

L- all soils received the seed without exception

This parable has nothing to do with "atonement". The gospel is not "atonement".
Those who reject the gospel are NOT atoned for.
Another "swing-and-a-miss".

I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist

Nothing in the parable identified all the soils as "elect", so the fact that the resisted the gospel means nothing.

P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith

Again, that ASSUMES (without basis) that those three soils were "elect" in the first place.
 
I see your eisegesis and running away to the predictable pet verses lol . Another swing and a miss .

next
 
This thread indicates a serious problem many have with their "study" of the Bible, and it shows a lack of self-awareness on the part of many. In fact, this OP is a perfect example of eisegesis, projecting your own theology onto the text, rather than letting the text speak for itself, and this sin is especially heinous since Jesus gave us the correct interpretation.

Far too frequently, people claim that their personal interpretation is the "clear meaning" of the text, without even trying to look for other plausible interpretations (such as those which are consistent with Calvinism). This can be done out of ignorance, but since the OP claims to know Calvinism better than any Calvinist who has ever lived, he cannot claim ignorance, so his misrepresentation must be intentional.



Neither the parable nor Christ's explanation mention "elect", so this passage cannot be used to "prove" or "disprove" Calvinism.

What this parable explains is a question which is asked in this forum all of the time, why is it when two people hear the gospel, some respond positively, and others don't? This parable explains what we see in our present day, and presumably what the disciples saw in their day.



The seeds on the "way side" represents those who have heard the gospel, but have never accepted it.



The seeds on the stony places represent people who receieve the gospel initially, perhaps even getting baptized. It's a novelty for a bit, but then the world gets in the way. Bad things happen, and they can't believe God didn't prevent it from happening. Or perhaps they get teased or bullied (like anti-Calvinists do here), and they give up, thinking it's not worth the effort. So we see them in church for a while, but at some point they fall away.



The seeds on the thorny ground represent people who initially receive the message, and start coming to church, but at some point Christ and the word are no longer the centre of their life, and they get pre-occupied with worldly things, so they leave the church.



And of course, the seeds falling on the good ground represents true Christians, who have been born of God, and bear much fruit.



Apparently the poster ASSUMES (without any basis whatsoever) that ALL the soils represent the "elect". This seems incredibly arbitrary and self-serving, and you can't "disprove" a theology by relying on self-serving "assumptions".

It seems that an equally valid interpretation, if not a more valid one, is that it is the "good ground" that represents the elect, and that the other three soils represent the non-elect.

Specifically:



Sorry, but there is NOTHING in the parable about ability ("can") or "choice". How can rocky ground "choose" to "receive the gospel" if the birds snatch it away? That's the birds' "choice", not the ground's. Similarly, when the thorns take all the nutrients away, preventing the seed to grow, how is that the "ground's" choice?

No, if you want to argue about "ability", you need to go ELSEWHERE in Scripture, to passages which actually SPEAK of "ability":

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Rom. 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor. 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Btw, a more detailed exegesis of 1 Cor. 2 can be found here.



That depends on how you understand "believe". I would point you to your own citation of James 2, to show that all "faith" is not equal. Further, the Bible never teaches that all are "elect", and there is much in Scripture which shows God limiting it:

Matt. 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood
you ransomed people for God
from
every tribe and language and people and nation,



This parable has nothing to do with "atonement". The gospel is not "atonement".
Those who reject the gospel are NOT atoned for.
Another "swing-and-a-miss".



Nothing in the parable identified all the soils as "elect", so the fact that the resisted the gospel means nothing.



Again, that ASSUMES (without basis) that those three soils were "elect" in the first place.

Kind of wierd, so I f am reading your post correctly.

Which is highly doubtful.

Why are they cast down to darknesss again?

Not good enough .....

This is one of those bible thnigy's.

You don't get it, so you get darkness.

Good thread .... like the noble extrapulation .
 
Matthew 13
1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.


19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith

* And as we can see they all had life to begin with in each soil. Only something alive can be choked. You cannot choke the dead lol.
* And only something alive can be scorched by the Sun and withered.
* Only someone alive can receive the word in the heart and have it snatched away
* Only someone alive can receive the word with Joy and endure for a while

hope this helps !!!
Excellent analysis!!

I was pondering for any possible connection between the Wedding Garment parable and this Sower parable. It could be that the Sower parable explains a lot of what transpires within the Wedding Garment parable. The 4 examples of soils could be a more focused description of what happened to all those who were called. The first soil could be somewhat related to those who killed the wedding messenger, driven by the evil one. The second or third soil could be the "friend" in the wedding garment parable who was called but for some reason never got or lost his garment. The 4th soil are all other called people who made their calling and election sure.

That can give the Sower parable the eschatological (elect) dimension that the Wedding Garment parable has.
 
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I was pondering for any possible connection between the Wedding Garment parable and this Sower parable.

I don't know why you would even think that to be appropriate.


It could be that the Sower parable explains a lot of what transpires within the Wedding Garment parable. The 4 examples of soils could be a more focused description of what happened to all those who were called. The first soil could be somewhat related to those who killed the wedding messenger, driven by the evil one. The second or third soil could be the "friend" in the wedding garment parable who was called but for some reason never got or lost his garment. The 4th soil are all other called people who made their calling and election sure.

And of course NONE of this is found anywhere in the parable.
You're simply projecting.

Here's my interpretation (and if you reject it, which you surely will, I couldn't care less).

Luke 14:16 But he said to him, “A man once gave a great banquet and invited many. 17 And at the time for the banquet he sent his servant to say to those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ 18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.’

He invited many, but NOBODY came, "they ALL alike began to make excuses".

I believe this is referring to the Jews.

Luke 14:19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.’ 20 And another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’

Sounds like an allusion to v. 26...

Luke 14:21 So the servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.’

I believe this second call is the call to the Gentiles ("I have sheep in another fold...").
The comment, "and still there is room" is a little ambiguous. Many people assume that many came, but there was still room left. It doesn't say that many came. I believe the reason "still there is room" is because again (like the first call) nobody came. Yes, it doesn't say that either, so I'm not dogmatic on it, but I think it better fits the totality of Scriptural teaching.

Luke 14:23 And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’”

This is the unconditional and irresistible drawing of the elect. God is sovereign, and He WILL have his house filled, even if he has to destroy your imaginary "free will" to do it.

The Lukan version doesn't have the uninvited guest, but Matthew's gospel does, so I'll include it here.

Matt. 22:11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

We are clothed with the righteousness of Christ. He took upon Himself our sins, and He clothed us in his righteousness. The uninvited guest was not given Christ's robe of righteousness, he tried to enter the feast with his OWN "righteousness", which according to Isa. 64 is nothing more than "filthy rags", used menstrual cloths. He was "called" (ie. he heard the gospel presentation", but he wasn't "chosen" ("eklektos"/"elect").
 
Matthew 13
1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.


19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith

* And as we can see they all had life to begin with in each soil. Only something alive can be choked. You cannot choke the dead lol.
* And only something alive can be scorched by the Sun and withered.
* Only someone alive can receive the word in the heart and have it snatched away
* Only someone alive can receive the word with Joy and endure for a while

hope this helps !!!
All the Calvinists throughout history must have missed that ... 😏
 
I don't know why you would even think that to be appropriate.




And of course NONE of this is found anywhere in the parable.
You're simply projecting.

Here's my interpretation (and if you reject it, which you surely will, I couldn't care less).

Luke 14:16 But he said to him, “A man once gave a great banquet and invited many. 17 And at the time for the banquet he sent his servant to say to those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ 18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.’

He invited many, but NOBODY came, "they ALL alike began to make excuses".

I believe this is referring to the Jews.

Luke 14:19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.’ 20 And another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’

Sounds like an allusion to v. 26...

Luke 14:21 So the servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.’

I believe this second call is the call to the Gentiles ("I have sheep in another fold...").
The comment, "and still there is room" is a little ambiguous. Many people assume that many came, but there was still room left. It doesn't say that many came. I believe the reason "still there is room" is because again (like the first call) nobody came. Yes, it doesn't say that either, so I'm not dogmatic on it, but I think it better fits the totality of Scriptural teaching.

Luke 14:23 And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’”

This is the unconditional and irresistible drawing of the elect. God is sovereign, and He WILL have his house filled, even if he has to destroy your imaginary "free will" to do it.
Luke 14:23 And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel (αναγκασον) people to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’”

The Greek word αναγκασον is to urge or compel, not irresistibly draw. You're attempting to redefine the Greek word to what it is not!
The Lukan version doesn't have the uninvited guest, but Matthew's gospel does, so I'll include it here.

Matt. 22:11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

We are clothed with the righteousness of Christ. He took upon Himself our sins, and He clothed us in his righteousness. The uninvited guest was not given Christ's robe of righteousness, he tried to enter the feast with his OWN "righteousness", which according to Isa. 64 is nothing more than "filthy rags", used menstrual cloths. He was "called" (ie. he heard the gospel presentation", but he wasn't "chosen" ("eklektos"/"elect").
It is God that does both the internal calling and the absolute choosing (election). Calling is not just an external announcement of the Gospel, it is predominantly the internal working of God. To say otherwise is to deny the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, there are 4 major Calvinist pillars that fall with this parable:
  1. Monergism (Total Depravity),
  2. Preservation of Saints (many called by God but few chosen by God),
  3. Irresistible Grace (many called by God but few chosen by God),
  4. and even Limited Atonement because as many as could possibly be found were invited.
 
Luke 14:23 And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel (αναγκασον) people to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’”

The Greek word αναγκασον is to urge or compel, not irresistibly draw. You're attempting to redefine the Greek word to what it is not!

From Merriam-Webster:

Definition of compel​

transitive verb
1: to drive or urge forcefully or irresistibly; Hunger compelled him to eat.The general was compelled to surrender.
2: to cause to do or occur by overwhelming pressure; Public opinion compelled her to sign the bill.
 
From Merriam-Webster:

Definition of compel​

transitive verb
1: to drive or urge forcefully or irresistibly; Hunger compelled him to eat.The general was compelled to surrender.
2: to cause to do or occur by overwhelming pressure; Public opinion compelled her to sign the bill.
Not everyone does what they're compelled to do, many even choosing death instead. Witness Hitler who was compelled to surrender with bombs landing all over him but committed suicide instead. Witness Churchill who was compelled by many to strike up a truce with Hitler but chose not to. Martyrs were compelled to renounce their faith but chose death instead. Do you have teenage children? Should I go on?......


Human level compelling can not even touch the Divine Irresistible Grace that you're promoting....
 
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Matthew 13
1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.


19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith

* And as we can see they all had life to begin with in each soil. Only something alive can be choked. You cannot choke the dead lol.
* And only something alive can be scorched by the Sun and withered.
* Only someone alive can receive the word in the heart and have it snatched away
* Only someone alive can receive the word with Joy and endure for a while

hope this
So you have tossed eternal security as well?

We can fall away?
 
Yes, here is how Luke puts it:
Luk 8:15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

Where did the noble and good heart come from?
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

The word "works" and "to do" are the same Greek word energeō.
The willing and the doing. Both are from God, and are of one piece, so that he who wills inevitably does. The willing which is wrought by God, by its own nature and pressure, works out into action. “We will, but God works the will in us. We work, therefore, but God works the working in us” (Augustine).

It is obvious that the first 3 hearers were not energized by God. They accepted the good news, but who knows why.

Act 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
Act 8:20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.

Here is a guy who is said to have beleived and was baptized. But Peter tells him "your heart is not right in the sight of God." I guess he didn't have that noble and good heart. He just seemed to have believed because he thought it was cool. Kind of like transgenderism today.
Our soil was plowed by God, praise his grace.
 
This thread indicates a serious problem many have with their "study" of the Bible, and it shows a lack of self-awareness on the part of many. In fact, this OP is a perfect example of eisegesis, projecting your own theology onto the text, rather than letting the text speak for itself, and this sin is especially heinous since Jesus gave us the correct interpretation.

Far too frequently, people claim that their personal interpretation is the "clear meaning" of the text, without even trying to look for other plausible interpretations (such as those which are consistent with Calvinism). This can be done out of ignorance, but since the OP claims to know Calvinism better than any Calvinist who has ever lived, he cannot claim ignorance, so his misrepresentation must be intentional.



Neither the parable nor Christ's explanation mention "elect", so this passage cannot be used to "prove" or "disprove" Calvinism.

What this parable explains is a question which is asked in this forum all of the time, why is it when two people hear the gospel, some respond positively, and others don't? This parable explains what we see in our present day, and presumably what the disciples saw in their day.



The seeds on the "way side" represents those who have heard the gospel, but have never accepted it.



The seeds on the stony places represent people who receieve the gospel initially, perhaps even getting baptized. It's a novelty for a bit, but then the world gets in the way. Bad things happen, and they can't believe God didn't prevent it from happening. Or perhaps they get teased or bullied (like anti-Calvinists do here), and they give up, thinking it's not worth the effort. So we see them in church for a while, but at some point they fall away.



The seeds on the thorny ground represent people who initially receive the message, and start coming to church, but at some point Christ and the word are no longer the centre of their life, and they get pre-occupied with worldly things, so they leave the church.



And of course, the seeds falling on the good ground represents true Christians, who have been born of God, and bear much fruit.



Apparently the poster ASSUMES (without any basis whatsoever) that ALL the soils represent the "elect". This seems incredibly arbitrary and self-serving, and you can't "disprove" a theology by relying on self-serving "assumptions".

It seems that an equally valid interpretation, if not a more valid one, is that it is the "good ground" that represents the elect, and that the other three soils represent the non-elect.

Specifically:



Sorry, but there is NOTHING in the parable about ability ("can") or "choice". How can rocky ground "choose" to "receive the gospel" if the birds snatch it away? That's the birds' "choice", not the ground's. Similarly, when the thorns take all the nutrients away, preventing the seed to grow, how is that the "ground's" choice?

No, if you want to argue about "ability", you need to go ELSEWHERE in Scripture, to passages which actually SPEAK of "ability":

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Rom. 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor. 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Btw, a more detailed exegesis of 1 Cor. 2 can be found here.



That depends on how you understand "believe". I would point you to your own citation of James 2, to show that all "faith" is not equal. Further, the Bible never teaches that all are "elect", and there is much in Scripture which shows God limiting it:

Matt. 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood
you ransomed people for God
from
every tribe and language and people and nation,



This parable has nothing to do with "atonement". The gospel is not "atonement".
Those who reject the gospel are NOT atoned for.
Another "swing-and-a-miss".



Nothing in the parable identified all the soils as "elect", so the fact that the resisted the gospel means nothing.



Again, that ASSUMES (without basis) that those three soils were "elect" in the first place.
Amen! Here comes the screams I was a Calvinist for 40 years and your committing the ad hom fallacy
 
Fall by the Wayside
those who never respond to the Gospel - the response of Unbelief

Fall on Rocky Places
hear, Believe, accept, saved - are never rooted/stabilized in the Word of God
tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine
experiential - experiences go up and down/spiritual life goes up and down
don't produce fruit as Believer should

Fell Among the Thorns
also Believer, saved - never able to overcome cares of this World
rooted in the Word/Theologically sound, but have difficulty living consistent spiritual lives
due to concern with issues of this Life
also not stabilized and don't bear much fruit in spiritual life

Fell on Good Ground
Believer, saved, rooted in God's Word
stabilized/overcome the World and as a result
bear much fruit in their spiritual life
 
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this age is characterized by the sowing of the gospel seed
sowing extends from the time Jesus is rejected in Matthew 12 until He is accepted in the ending days of the Great Tribulation
it will be marked by different preparations of the soil
it will be marked by opposition from the world, the flesh, and the devil
it will be marked by different responses to the Word, as above

the Parable of the Seed growing of Itself Mark 4:26-29
concerns the power of the simple Gospel message
to facilitate regeneration
it can change the course of a person's (eternal) Life in an instant
as it has a power all it's own
the seed springs to life of it's own accord, it is unknown to the those who sow how
 
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This thread indicates a serious problem many have with their "study" of the Bible, and it shows a lack of self-awareness on the part of many. In fact, this OP is a perfect example of eisegesis, projecting your own theology onto the text, rather than letting the text speak for itself, and this sin is especially heinous since Jesus gave us the correct interpretation.

Far too frequently, people claim that their personal interpretation is the "clear meaning" of the text, without even trying to look for other plausible interpretations (such as those which are consistent with Calvinism). This can be done out of ignorance, but since the OP claims to know Calvinism better than any Calvinist who has ever lived, he cannot claim ignorance, so his misrepresentation must be intentional.



Neither the parable nor Christ's explanation mention "elect", so this passage cannot be used to "prove" or "disprove" Calvinism.

What this parable explains is a question which is asked in this forum all of the time, why is it when two people hear the gospel, some respond positively, and others don't? This parable explains what we see in our present day, and presumably what the disciples saw in their day.

The seeds on the "way side" represents those who have heard the gospel, but have never accepted it.

The seeds on the stony places represent people who receieve the gospel initially, perhaps even getting baptized. It's a novelty for a bit, but then the world gets in the way. Bad things happen, and they can't believe God didn't prevent it from happening. Or perhaps they get teased or bullied (like anti-Calvinists do here), and they give up, thinking it's not worth the effort. So we see them in church for a while, but at some point they fall away.



The seeds on the thorny ground represent people who initially receive the message, and start coming to church, but at some point Christ and the word are no longer the centre of their life, and they get pre-occupied with worldly things, so they leave the church.



And of course, the seeds falling on the good ground represents true Christians, who have been born of God, and bear much fruit.



Apparently the poster ASSUMES (without any basis whatsoever) that ALL the soils represent the "elect". This seems incredibly arbitrary and self-serving, and you can't "disprove" a theology by relying on self-serving "assumptions".

It seems that an equally valid interpretation, if not a more valid one, is that it is the "good ground" that represents the elect, and that the other three soils represent the non-elect.

Specifically:



Sorry, but there is NOTHING in the parable about ability ("can") or "choice". How can rocky ground "choose" to "receive the gospel" if the birds snatch it away? That's the birds' "choice", not the ground's. Similarly, when the thorns take all the nutrients away, preventing the seed to grow, how is that the "ground's" choice?

No, if you want to argue about "ability", you need to go ELSEWHERE in Scripture, to passages which actually SPEAK of "ability":

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Rom. 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor. 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Btw, a more detailed exegesis of 1 Cor. 2 can be found here.



That depends on how you understand "believe". I would point you to your own citation of James 2, to show that all "faith" is not equal. Further, the Bible never teaches that all are "elect", and there is much in Scripture which shows God limiting it:

Matt. 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

John 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood
you ransomed people for God
from
every tribe and language and people and nation,



This parable has nothing to do with "atonement". The gospel is not "atonement".
Those who reject the gospel are NOT atoned for.
Another "swing-and-a-miss".

Nothing in the parable identified all the soils as "elect", so the fact that the resisted the gospel means nothing.

Again, that ASSUMES (without basis) that those three soils were "elect" in the first place.

The sheep are the libertarian seekers and this are already prepped to respond and thus will come.
 
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